foreveryoung Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Tin hat time... but just trying to be a wee bit positive... Finally seen some passion out of the team the last two games from young lads who obviously are proud to wear the claret & blue. If we've kicked McLeish for the performances on the pitch all sason...then we have to surely give him a bit of credit for getting the youngsters playing with a bit of grit and belief. I've said before many of the senior players in our squad were abandoned by MON who walked out on a dressing room he'd supposedly lost, did nothing under Kevin MacDonald. Looked anything but committed under Gerard Houlier whilst making out Gary McAllister was THE problem. Made Gordon Cowans practically refuse to work with them....and now has McLeish behind closed doors bemoaning the lack of team spirit. Someone posted yesterday that we need MON back and he'd get the best out of this lot and keep us up. Sorry that doesn't wash with me MON walked out on a squad of players who in the main he'd assembled expensively whilst casting aside home grown talent. McLeish to his credit has not in the main moaned he's remained dignified and respectful and just got on with the hand he was dealt. To be fair I would remain dignified and respectful for sure, I would'nt wanna get carried away and lose my 2 mil (whatever it is) a year salary. Honestly, he has never once (like even big managers) blamed himself for any performances this season, its either fans or players but never his inept negative tactics, because he always believes a draw is a good result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted April 8, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2012 The same was said about Houllier and Bannan/Clark/Albrighton/etc but he, too, only used them when he had no choice. They did marvelously though we didn't win many (any?) games and they were dropped as soon as the senior players were fit. Even though they hated him. I suspect it's exactly the same now with McLeish. Still, credit where it is due. 2 of the youngsters combined to get the goal and, overall, they held their own. McLeish subbed off Heskey for Gardner. He also put Wieman on for Herd to respond to Liverpool's sub of 3 strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 JulieB is justified in trying to take some positives. However, the manager has spent the season in blaming the players while clearly giving instructions to players that fit at St. Andrews and not at Villa Park. The smilarities to his performance at St. Andrews is frightening really. And yesterday, Villa faced a Liverpool side that were a pale imitation of their old selves in the first 30 minutes. Liverpool gave Villa space in that time to take advantage - in the old days they wouldn't have done that. Let's wait awhile before we start trumpeting about McLeish's virtues I say. There's still 7 games to go and in only a couple of matches so far this season could you say that McLeish's tactics have worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis_B Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 McEck is a waste of space. As is pointed out he has played the kids because he has no choice. I can't accept Julies point that McEck has got the kids playing with grit and belief, surely thats what they will do whatever as their egos haven't fully developed yet and they still are looking to progress. Thats why many want them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 As they say even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Yes, let's give him some credit for picking the youngsters because he surely would have picked them if he had Dunne, Cuellar, Petrov, N'Zogbia and Bent available to him wouldn't he! Well said. People seem to just blindly try and support this manager. I still believe some fans can't turn against Lerner for what ever reason. My sentiments exactly. He's picked the best team available to him, apart from Hutton. And as John said, it's in the nature of the young players to come out and give it their all, they want to make the breakthrough for regular first team football and I'm sure for the local players like Albrighton who have grown up supporting Villa, getting that opportunity means that much more. Also, McLeish remaining dignified and respectful? Does that include him blaming the players for the negative football? or his little dig at the fans when we got a lucky win over the mighty Fulham? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Just looking back at the first few pages of this thread is like looking at the last few pages (with the obvious exception of the few people that were supportive of McLeish and they don't appear to post on here any more). 758 pages in less than 8 months mainly dedicated to the inadequacies of one person is quite an achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 McLeish doesn't deserve any credit for playing the kids. He's doing so because he has no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 McLeish doesn't deserve any credit for playing the kids. He's doing so because he has no choice. He's played the kids earlier in the season without being forced to. Giving Gardner his debut, playing Bannan, Clark and Delph etc. One of the few things he deserves credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 He's played the kids earlier in the season without being forced to. Giving Gardner his debut, playing Bannan, Clark and Delph etc. One of the few things he deserves credit for. I think you will find that Bannan, Clark and Delph were in and around the first team well before McLeish arrived on the scene. You may also find that the recent request to give McLeish credit for playing youngsters relates to the past few games when he has had no choice not to the smattering of cameo appearances he afforded to some earlier in his tenure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 758 pages in less than 8 months mainly dedicated to the inadequacies of one person is quite an achievement. Amazing isn't it? Back in the real World you'd get sacked if you were incompetent at your job. That's how I got my job, the last guy was useless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Totally agree , people keep saying lambert or rodgers to take us to another level , but if they ain't got money , would they have done better than mcleish ? Yes. Yes they would. No, no they wouldn't They already have!!!!!! Look at the league!!!! They have taken Championship teams on a shoestring to positions above us. Or was that an accident, a freak of nature, what?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I think it's called hapless endeavour Norwich & Swansea will both be relegated next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Totally agree , people keep saying lambert or rodgers to take us to another level , but if they ain't got money , would they have done better than mcleish ? Yes. Yes they would. No, no they wouldn't They already have!!!!!! Look at the league!!!! They have taken Championship teams on a shoestring to positions above us. Or was that an accident, a freak of nature, what?? I put it down to erratic weather patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Yes but he inherited a very poor squad. He really hasn't been allowed to turn that around with the type of finance that O'Neill was given and thats what it would take to replace the absolute dross at the club. He has also had to contend with a serious of injuries to key players and then to rely on our youth, who with the exception of Gardner, who i rate very highly, are simply not good enough. So he has been a victim of circumstances at our club. However if he had been given a decent budget to bring in more players in January and we were still in our current position then i would be more inclined to agree with you. Good God I wish I'd written this it sums up the situation and my feelings exactly - some common sense at last. Ridiculous and doesnt actually address the main facts. He had 20 million to spend in the summer, he didnt pick up points that were there for the taking when he had the opporunity prior to injuries. He managed to turn our most effective goalscorer into a mere passenger. Yesterday highlighted the hug gaps in midfield where we retreated enmasse. Joke manager who has failed to utilise the quality he had available and is now blaming injuries for his own failings. We should not be where we currently are in the league full stop, then the injuries would not be such an issue. Just a few comments on this^^. 'Managed to turn our most effective goalscorer into a mere passenger.' I believe the sale of Young and Downing did that which cut off Bent's supply. 'Huge gaps in midfield where we retreated enmasse.' Did you see what players were available to him yesterday. Did you expect us then to leave ourselves wide open against Gerrard and Suarez? Have you actually seen our injury list. What manager in the same situation wouldn't? Even Ferguson cries foul when they have injuries. Our position in the table is not due to AM. We also were in the bottom half of the table last year as well with a much better squad until the last few games. Those better players are now gone and we are still struggling because our squad is simply not good enough. I disagree on Bent, give him service and he will score. We play too deep to feed or back up Bent. It aint rocket science and blaming everything on Young and Downing is just another convenient excuse. Play higher, more chances, more goals. We had the legs on Gerrard, Liverpool were lacking confidence, press higher up the pitch and generate errors which provide chances. Sitting deep and letting play triangles around us is demoralising and futile, the goal was coming, only a question of when. You cannot sit back and defend for 80 minutes. Our position is not down to McLeish. I am not even going to bother trying to respond to that. Frankly its a ridiculous argument as he is the manager, selects the team, spends the 20m (more than Pardew, Rogers, Lambert) sets the formation, trains the team, motivates them for matches. You are making excuses for what is an awful, awful manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 He's played the kids earlier in the season without being forced to. Giving Gardner his debut, playing Bannan, Clark and Delph etc. One of the few things he deserves credit for. I think you will find that Bannan, Clark and Delph were in and around the first team well before McLeish arrived on the scene. You may also find that the recent request to give McLeish credit for playing youngsters relates to the past few games when he has had no choice not to the smattering of cameo appearances he afforded to some earlier in his tenure. Firstly, if by in and around the first team you mean warming the bench then yes sure they were. Delph got a run of 7 or so starts at the start of the season, and Bannan similarly. It took extremely poor form and a drunk driving accident respectively for them to lose their places which shows that McLeish put faith in them. Clark was utilized as a holding player and started a fair few (and some important) games. He also gave 19 y/o Gardner his debut and started him a couple of times of his own volition. Although I agree that those who are requesting that McLeish get credit now (I don't think there are many) are way off the mark. It's quite clear his hand is forced, so it would be silly to suggest so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Totally agree , people keep saying lambert or rodgers to take us to another level , but if they ain't got money , would they have done better than mcleish ? Yes. Yes they would. No, no they wouldn't They already have!!!!!! Look at the league!!!! They have taken Championship teams on a shoestring to positions above us. Or was that an accident, a freak of nature, what?? I put it down to erratic weather patterns. You could be right. Both Norwich and Swansea are reasonably close to the coast so perhaps some freak coastal winds have blown in and made them play football. Damn those winds, if only we had them in Birmingham! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 There is a danger that this injury crisis could be used as an excuse for McLeish and even make it look like he's a genius using the youngsters. Let's get this straight, McLeish should have picked up FAR more points when we had our full squad available. This injury crisis (which no-one can blame him for) would have been a lot less significant if we'd seen a slide from 10th than putting a ton of pressure on youngsters as they fight for our survival because it hit an already struggling side. Which is why I actually don't think there is any point of getting rid of McLeish until we are now mathematically safe. The new manager will basically have to put out the same team such is the limited choice. The risks (uncertainty/ rudderless etc) outweigh the benefits considering how little scope for change there is at this moment in time. However the SECOND we're safe he should be shown the door. A team that has had a nucleus of players such as Given, Dunne, Collins, Petrov, N'Zogbia, Ireland and Bent available for a majority of the season should under no circumstances be in the position we are. Lower midtable at worst (12th) even 7/8/9th until the injury crisis started really hitting. I bet most fans would happily see our transfer budget fall by £5m if it meant seeing the back of him. Never in all my time supporting Villa (20yrs) have I seen a less liked manager - even DOL! And the whole Blues thing IS a problem, but for the opposite reason; I couldn't give a monkeys where he's come from but I think he's being afforded more time because press/board believe that's our problem with him and are ignoring the actual reasons - like breaking all the unenviable records for poor performance parameters! Can't stand him. OUT OUT OUT (the second we're safe!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmarsha_926 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Shows you how frustrating this season is when only the top 6 have lost less games then you. Shows we find it hard to score and defend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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