villaglint Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Be interesting to see how AMC he works Bent back into the team.... Zog and Albighton have been good on the wing in a 4-3-3 Gabby has been quality this season on the left of a 4-3-3 Bent plays up top on his own. Who gets dropped? Or 4-4-2? wit Petrov and Clarke/Herd CM? --- Yeah I agree we have got a bit of a selection dilemma which is good but I also think part of our problem is we haven't known our best team since start of season. Zog and Albrighton have done enough to keep their places for sure. I think we need Bannan in there because we dont seem to be able to string two passes together without him or someone like Ireland in there. Gabby has been our best player without a doubt so he is either pushing out Bent? or Zog/Albrighton? or possibly Ireland/Bannan from last nights shape. Very tricky. I would go with the following (when all fit) and try to stick with it as much as possible. --------------Given--------------- Herd -- Cuellar -- Dunne -- Warnock ------ Petrov ------Bannan -------------- Albrighton ---- Gabby-------N'Zogbia ---------------Bent----------------------- I'd feel a lot more comfortable with another genuine midfielder in there but I don't see how we can do it and keep the top four on pitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 My worry is that McLeish will just revert to his normal shit for the next game. As things stand it looks as if he only sends out the team to win when he's starting to come under a bit of pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Better performance but still too many issues, McLeish has to go!!!! Yes too little too late. Still sat back for the draw after equaliser which was disappointing. As it is this game wasn't enough to turn my head to give him another chance, but should we keep the level we showed yesterday for a few more games, then I'm all for keeping him. Unfortunately I'm afraid that he might think that the game from yesterday will in his own world show that he was right and that an attacking set up against the better teams won't be successfull and go back to the defensive style we've played in the other games. And therefor I'm still in the AML out-camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pricey_1984 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 hahaha well said darrenm first paragraph was spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I didn't hear a SINGLE person on the Witton platform or train back into Walsall moaning about the perormance. Quite the opposite in fact Proof that if you have a go, but go down fighting the supporters will back you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefa3011 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 As it is this game wasn't enough to turn my head to give him another chance, but should we keep the level we showed yesterday for a few more games, then I'm all for keeping him. Unfortunately I'm afraid that he might think that the game from yesterday will in his own world show that he was right and that an attacking set up against the better teams won't be successfull and go back to the defensive style we've played in the other games. And therefor I'm still in the AML out-camp. This is almost exactly how I feel about the situation. When he was appointed I was willing to give him time to prove himself, but the lack of performance or fight shown against Spuds, United and Liverpool were shocking. I thought under Big 'eck we'd at least fight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted December 22, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted December 22, 2011 ^ Sames as ^, lets see what team he puts out against Stoke, the deisre from the players last night was plain to see and all we can really ask for given the loss of our best players. If however he goes back to trying to scrape a draw (tempting with Stoke away) then my opinion of him will drop back down to 3/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemanscott Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Just to pick on a couple of things by darrenm. The penalty wasn't a gift from the referee, it was a gift from Clark. He knew he was in trouble and tried to stop Walcott as subtly as he could but the ref saw it and rightly gave a pen. We didn't really test Szczesny as far as I can remember either, I'm probably wrong but I don't actually recall him making one save, other than collecting/stopping crosses??? Despite all that, darrenm is right in that a lot of us have simply been asking for better football, and that is what we got - at times. It wasn't great though, though, we still lack movement. What annoys me most is when players don't bother showing themselves for short passes. They should be constantly on the move looking to give and go, creating space for themselves and their team mates. We are still way too static and I'm not sure it's something McLeish concentrates on in training, but I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 We are still way too static and I'm not sure it's something McLeish concentrates on in training, but I hope I'm wrong. we were the same under the last 2 managers too, so i dont think its necessarily a gaffer issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambStockmix Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 How many times did we actually test Szczesny? Loads as it happens. No, not loads as it happens. 4 (the same amount we mustered against Liverpool). Compared to Arsenal's 7. 4 is not good enough when you're at home no matter who you are playing. Yes we showed a lot of endeavour and this stat doesn't reflect a couple of good crosses that Gabby and Ireland couldn't latch onto but it's still shite. So I'm not happy. Still. Hardly ever as usual. er, no. Er yes. We have the second least amount of total shots out of every team in the league and the second least on target. So the term 'as usual' is perfectly fitting. McLeish was happy at 1-1 and wanted to sit on it possibly hoping for a cheeky goal. Any manager with guts would have made a positive substitution and take off any of our many knackered players to try and win the game but not him. WE WERE THE HOME SIDE PEOPLE. How could you possibly have any evidence for McLeish being happy at 1-1? All evidence, you know, like actually attacking them and continuing to dominate and looking the most likely to score, points to the contrary. Our best 11 players were on the pitch and were taking Arsenal to the cleaners, in what universe would it have been a good idea to take any of them off? The evidence I have of McLeish being happy with 1-1 is that he made no positive substitutions. Think about it, of course he would have taken a point before the game against a team like Arsenal, that would almost certainly buy him more time. Why on earth would Mr. Negative risk losing a point by being more positive in his eyes. Even though our best 11 players were on the pitch as you correctly say, a fresh player coming on would have helped. I love Gabby but he was playing shite and I thought he should have been taken off for Fonz or even Fonz coming on for Petrov would have been great. I want my manager to show some **** balls and have realised for some time now that this will NEVER happen. Last night was better than usual but it still was not good by any means. The dourness of this season has made yesterday's performance seem better than it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 How is that evidence Lambstock? Surely, the fact that he didnt make any DEFENSIVE substitutuions goes against your point? Also, its unfair to just count shots on target. If ireland/ gabby had got onto any of those crosses (or got to the near post to knock it on) then we would have has 3 or 4 more shots on target. Also, bannan just whipped his freekick past the post. To me, we played well and attacked enough to normally win a Prem game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Just to pick on a couple of things by darrenm. The penalty wasn't a gift from the referee, it was a gift from Clark. He knew he was in trouble and tried to stop Walcott as subtly as he could but the ref saw it and rightly gave a pen. We didn't really test Szczesny as far as I can remember either, I'm probably wrong but I don't actually recall him making one save, other than collecting/stopping crosses??? Despite all that, darrenm is right in that a lot of us have simply been asking for better football, and that is what we got - at times. It wasn't great though, though, we still lack movement. What annoys me most is when players don't bother showing themselves for short passes. They should be constantly on the move looking to give and go, creating space for themselves and their team mates. We are still way too static and I'm not sure it's something McLeish concentrates on in training, but I hope I'm wrong. Just for some nit picking and a bit of a reminder Gabby had a header in the beginning that their keeper made a very good save from. The thing is, we didn't have many shots on goal, but we came into several good positions to score but just didn't really get there to put the final touch of it. I think after the first 20 minutes or so the stats were 3-2 in shots on goal. But Gabbys' the only one I remember that really tested their keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambStockmix Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 No positive subs means you're happy with a point in my opinion. I'm not saying we played just as bad as we normally do just not as well as people are saying. Shots on target is the most important stat behind goals scored and Arsenal (who according to Darrenm we battered and dominated) had nearly twice the amount and tested our keeper more. I don't think last night's performance will be enough to win other games because A) it wasn't enough last night and that Arsenal performance was worse than most teams we've come across so far this season. So in fact we're gonna have to play even better to get anything from games. Just cause it was Arsenal doesn't make our showing yesterday evening any better. They put in a mid-table performance but the only difference is teams like them can go up a few gears and we can't cause we're totally lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 No positive subs means you're happy with a point in my opinion. I'm not saying we played just as bad as we normally do just not as well as people are saying. Shots on target is the most important stat behind goals scored and Arsenal (who according to Darrenm we battered and dominated) had nearly twice the amount and tested our keeper more. I don't think last night's performance will be enough to win other games because A) it wasn't enough last night and that Arsenal performance was worse than most teams we've come across so far this season. So in fact we're gonna have to play even better to get anything from games. Just cause it was Arsenal doesn't make our showing yesterday evening any better. They put in a mid-table performance but the only difference is teams like them can go up a few gears and we can't cause we're totally lost. Why do you think it has to mean that AML was settled with a point just because he didn't make any substitutes? Maybe he thought it was working as it was? I couldn't call for a sub from where I sat. Making subs doesn't always make it better. Sometimes it's the opposite. You most often make subs to change things and we didn't really need to change things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 And we will get relegated? Unfortunately, you need performances and results. Last night we got the former, but not the latter. All last night did was show that those who think the fault is not with the manager but with the squad are wrong. The talent is there, it just needs the right manager to unlock it. You think if we play like that every week we will get relegated? I disagree but if we did so be it. I enjoyed the game last night as the players tried and that's what I want to see. I'm not a fan of McLeish, but he ain't going anywhere so I like to look at positives. So when the players play shit, it's McLeishs fault, but when they do well, it's nothing to do with him? What a load of bollocks. 17 games into his reign and the team finally performs. The team has been taking flack and sometimes justifiably so, all I said is there is talent in the squad, it has and still is to some degree being misused. Yesterday they were let off the leish against a top four side. Pity McLeish couldnt do that to the other 16 teams we have played, we might actually be in a decent position. If you choose to ignore that, the you need to take your head out your arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacemanscott Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 We are still way too static and I'm not sure it's something McLeish concentrates on in training, but I hope I'm wrong. we were the same under the last 2 managers too, so i dont think its necessarily a gaffer issue You're probably right, we did look to move a bit more under Houllier but lacked penetration. MON's team worked hard but it was more a case of players getting on their bikes for the ball down the line/over the top. The problem now is that players simply seem to stay out of the way rather than offering a realistic pass for the player on the ball. This invariably leads to the player on the ball looking for something they just aren't capable of producing and misplacing the pass. In fairness to McLeish, it's almost as though a lot of them don't want the ball at times, so it could just be more of a confidence issue that anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Paul Doyle made a good point in the Guardian a few weeks back in that historically when McLeish takes over a side he does well with the previous manager's squad and set-up, but as he starts to settle in and implement his own way of doing things and buying his own players things start to go downhill after a season or two. Don't want to think where that would leave us..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambStockmix Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 No positive subs means you're happy with a point in my opinion. I'm not saying we played just as bad as we normally do just not as well as people are saying. Shots on target is the most important stat behind goals scored and Arsenal (who according to Darrenm we battered and dominated) had nearly twice the amount and tested our keeper more. I don't think last night's performance will be enough to win other games because A) it wasn't enough last night and that Arsenal performance was worse than most teams we've come across so far this season. So in fact we're gonna have to play even better to get anything from games. Just cause it was Arsenal doesn't make our showing yesterday evening any better. They put in a mid-table performance but the only difference is teams like them can go up a few gears and we can't cause we're totally lost. Why do you think it has to mean that AML was settled with a point just because he didn't make any substitutes? Maybe he thought it was working as it was? I couldn't call for a sub from where I sat. Making subs doesn't always make it better. Sometimes it's the opposite. You most often make subs to change things and we didn't really need to change things. Arsene Wenger looked at the game with ten minutes left and thought 'I want to win this', so he made a double substitution of Arshavin and Benayoun for Ramsey and Gervinho, pretty much like for like but fresh legs none the less. From that moment on the bombarded us. Now I know that our bench wasn't bursting with quality but I would have liked us to have done the same thing. I think a fresh Delph and Fonz on for an unfortunately poor Gabby (who cost us the goal) and a tired Petrov/Clark would have been wise. Sure enough Arsenal ended up getting corner after corner after corner and what is the ONE definite we have learnt about this Aston Villa team this season? We will definitely concede from a corner at some point during a game. Especially if we give the opposition 15 attempts at it and no matter how well we've dealt with the first 14. McLeish did NOTHING to stop this inevitability. Why? Because he doesn't know how to. So I put the blame squarely on him for our defeat last night. IF YOU GO MORE ATTACKING ALEX THE BALL IS AT OUR END LESS OFTEN. I'll say it again that I agree last night was our best performance so far this season but what do people think we can build up to now? 8th? A cup win? There's absolutely no way that will happen and it pains me to say it. Not with him in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefa3011 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I think we'll win the Champions League, tbh. Seriously, you make some good points, and it's time to see if the penny has dropped with AMC or if we sink back to the ridiculously poor performances previously. Even in the win against Bolton the second half display was pretty abject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Apparently this was at the game yesterday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts