TrentVilla Posted July 22, 2014 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2014 And the UN continues to sit on its hands. I'm not sure what the UN can do when its constituent parts aren't willing to function together as any sort of united whole. That the UN is mostly a joke is the responsibility of the nations themselves and the greatest weight of blame lies on the shoulders of the big cheeses (security council permanent members and down a bit). Less sitting on their hands and more having hands like Jeremy Beedle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glarmorgan Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Glarmorgan, I don't think anyone here is blaming "The Jews"...people are disagreeing with policy set forth by Israeli politicians, their enablers and apologists in western governments, in particular the USA, whose calamitous Middle East policy is influenced in no small measure by the Israel lobby. Maqroll, as someone blames the "Zionist" in being racist - who is a Zionist. Are there any Arab Zionist? What is Zionism? A political movement? A religious movement? How many here actually know what Zionism is? Bothered to run a quick inspection in Wikipedia, just to gain some knowledge? How many people here were ever in touch with an Israeli Zionist, not to mention - being in Israel? Racist? The only country in the middle east where Arab citizens have full democratic rights, and you're talking about racism? Well, I consider myself as Zionist - a true believer in the creation of a Jewish state on this land. Does this make me a racist? a violent scum killing Arabs all day long? Can anyone point his finger towards me and my 620 posts (including the ones in the amusing GIFs thread) and honestly say that my words brought him to a conclusion that I am am racist? Arab hater? Something of that sort? I knew my opinions and my point of view will not be too popular here. That is quite alright, but still, I tried to initiate some sort of discussion, an exchange of thoughts. I have never expected this. While I am being targeted by Hamas rockets - you will still not find a single sentence where I generalize all Arabs into terrorists or Israel haters. I've spent years of my life playing in an Arab-Jewish football club (a crappy left back), I work in the city of Ramla, which is a mixed city with a relatively large Arab population. I work with Arabs, I had Arab colleagues. I spent more time in homes of Arab friends than most of the people here, if not all. Anyone here is entitled to completely disagree with what I say. that is perfectly fine. One can even mock my level of English - I don't care. That's a part of the game, but at the same time - the least I expect is to be treated fairly. That line was NOT fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Again, I'm not sticking up one side or the other, but when you have terrorists firing rockets from civilian areas, what is the other side supposed to do? 1. Protect it's citizens as a far as possible (e.g. Iron Dome) 2. Take reasonable and proportionate steps to stop the attacks immediately 3. Take away the reason for the missile firing 4. Prevent the attackers getting more weapons via working down the supply chain. Massacring children, shelling hospitals, obliterating innocent civilians and committing war crimes are not any of the above. They are the exact opposite, of 3 of them (the first step is exactly right). You missed out 5) teaching the world to sing, in perfect harmony. Seriously, take reasonable and proportionate steps to stop the attacks, and take away the reason for the missile firing? That'd be Israel existing then. What exactly is it about that whole region that makes you think that a reasonable solution is possible? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glarmorgan Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 So is it in fact Hamas to blame for civilian deaths in Palestine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 "Hamas doesn't want peace." Well, I don't think I'd struggle to disagree with that or with someone then saying that Hamas is happy with Israeli offensives. On the other hand, if someone were to say that Israel doesn't want peace or is happy with Hamas lobbing rockets then I think I'd struggle to disagree with that also. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) i was watching an interesting documentary earlier about radical islam, i dont think people realise how deep and widespread it is. its taught in schools to hate america,israel and britain and they teach jihad at an early age, also there are a lot of adverts on tv that promote this. they was interviewing a muslim woman who now lives in the states, shes very westernised and she was saying that all over islam they teach that islam is the only religion and that non believers should be basically killed. she was explaining how deep and widespread it is, she also said that muslims who relocate to non muslim countries there goal is to spread islam as much as they could in the hope that it will take over. she said not all muslims but a lot will seem very freindly and will come across peaceful but its just a show and really they want islam to rule the world. it spoke to former muslims who have left islam because it does not promote peace etc, now as ive said before i dont trust islam one bit and i dont mean to offend anyone but thats the way i feel and this documentary hightened my paranoia. this was not a documentary done by americans it actually had muslim and ex muslims in it, some people will think its just propoganda but i do believe that a huge percent of the muslim world would want islam to be the only religion and rule the world. this muslim bloke who has studied all the muslim koran and texts said the reason why islam will never be peaceful is because the koran preaches violence and murder against non believers, the prophet muhammed beheaded between 600 and 900 non believers. it was interesting to see the preachers preaching to thousands of people about killing non believers and it also showed you school books where the kids learn about murder and hate. there are a lot of propoganda adverts about how america wants to wipe out islam, by doing this its teaching muslims to hate and fight. i do believe it gets played down a hell of a lot and i think people dont realise the danger but i can also see why they have this hate of the west and israel. i know most people will think im wrong and thats fair enough, i also aint painting all muslims with the same brush but i think there is a huge percentage that are to radicalised. You ought to go out to the muslim world a little instead of being brain washed by TV My experiences there have been fantastic and it may shock you but not one of them has tried to kill me ( though my driver in Tehran came close a few times !! ) Edited July 22, 2014 by tonyh29 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Im happy to spend time answering any questions you have Rugeley. You have a very distorted view of Islam I must say. Not that I blame you for that view. As Tony says once you spend time with anyone from another country or religion or race you realise that most of us are the same and most of us are good people. Well apart from Blues fans 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Im happy to spend time answering any questions you have Rugeley. You have a very distorted view of Islam I must say. Not that I blame you for that view. As Tony says once you spend time with anyone from another country or religion or race you realise that most of us are the same and most of us are good people. Well apart from Blues fans I have a question if you don't mind? I was once told that in some countries such as India and Pakistan, young Muslim boys are given a pet goat which they keep until they grow fond of it.Then the goat is slaughtered and they are made to watch to desensitise them. Is there any truth in this at all? (Btw even if this was true I'm not judging any sort of practise, just curious). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismail-villa Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Im happy to spend time answering any questions you have Rugeley. You have a very distorted view of Islam I must say. Not that I blame you for that view. As Tony says once you spend time with anyone from another country or religion or race you realise that most of us are the same and most of us are good people. Well apart from Blues fans I have a question if you don't mind? I was once told that in some countries such as India and Pakistan, young Muslim boys are given a pet goat which they keep until they grow fond of it.Then the goat is slaughtered and they are made to watch to desensitise them. Is there any truth in this at all? (Btw even if this was true I'm not judging any sort of practise, just curious). Not true as far as I'm aware, it maybe does happen with a few tribes or villages but not generally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Glarmorgan, I think you have mistaken me for someone else. I have not mentioned anything about Zionism or racism, so you might want to direct what you said to me elsewhere. And there I was thinking I was being a peacemaker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Ive never heard of the goat thing before. Certainly not an Islamic thing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 yes i admit by view of islam is not positive at all and in a way its no surprise i view islam the way i do, most people i know also view islam in a bad light. its just so hard to view it any other way when i very rarely see anything positive about the religion, i really wish things were different. as i said in a previous post in order for me to trust islam id have to go out and find this trust and see for myself that it aint how i percieve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 23, 2014 Moderator Share Posted July 23, 2014 Sadly a lot of people probably share your view, a lot wouldn't express it and a lot that do do so at EDL marches, you still appear to have an open mind but limited experience if I read you correctly which is very different. Personally I would say a small percentage of the Muslim world are gaining disproportionate media coverage and colouring your views and a lot of other people's views. Just as in any religion, nationality or social group the Muslim faith is made up of a very wide spectrum of people many of whom are the complete opposite to the more public, more media focussed militant jihadist minority. It's a little like back in the 80's all non football fans thought all football fans were thugs because their only exposure to them was what they saw on the news. I do think that the Muslim community both here and abroad should do more to try and redress this imbalance not least for their own benefit but from my own personal experience I can say I think you are wrong but I can understand why you think that way with limited exposure and only the media to form an opinion from. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glarmorgan Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Glarmorgan, I think you have mistaken me for someone else. I have not mentioned anything about Zionism or racism, so you might want to direct what you said to me elsewhere. And there I was thinking I was being a peacemaker! Oh. You've got me completely wrong. I was not referring to you in my reply. It's just that I replied to your post, so everything was in it.... My bad, and I apologize for this lack of coherence. The Zionist remarks were brought up by a different user. I was a bit annoyed that not a single person here saw this as a disturbing or at least inappropriate comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glarmorgan Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 "Hamas doesn't want peace." Well, I don't think I'd struggle to disagree with that or with someone then saying that Hamas is happy with Israeli offensives. On the other hand, if someone were to say that Israel doesn't want peace or is happy with Hamas lobbing rockets then I think I'd struggle to disagree with that also. You won't struggle to disagree with that because you think you know what Israel people are thinking and wishing for (no disrespect, of course) . I could, somehow, agree with you with a problem in the West Bank, where many Israelis feel that giving up these territories is a mistake, leave their reasons aside for a moment. However, I completely disagree when you talk of Gaza. Israel has no interests in Gaza. No claims for land (Old Judea and so), no economic needs. Nothing. Practically nothing. That is why Israel had no real problem withdrawing from Gaza in 2006. Do you really think that Israeli parents dance on the rooftops when their children enter Gaza? Do you think that the people in Sderot, constantly being shelled, are happy with this situation? The current operation in Gaza was initiated with Hamas rockets and not the other way around. As long as Hamas kept his rockets at bay, for the past year and a half, Israel did not invade nor bombarded Gaza. Happy with rockets launched at us? This is exactly what I was talking about - this comes from a complete lack of knowledge. I am an Israeli - do I sound a warmonger to you? Happy with being targeted? Where do you bring such ideas regarding the Israeli people from? I will be the first to admit we are far from being saints, but we also not even close to being a demon as you see us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Just read the last few pages... still a case of "it's not us, it's them".. back out I go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I am an Israeli - do I sound a warmonger to you?Yes. Sometimes, I am afraid that you do.As for the rest, when I used 'Israel', I was talking about the state of Israel as a political entity (and the political elite who make up this entity) rather than Mr and Mrs Jones in Sderot. Edited July 23, 2014 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I am an Israeli - do I sound a warmonger to you? Yes. Sometimes, I am afraid that you do. I think that's harsh from what I've read. The posts above seem most reasonable, considering he's actually living through this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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