The Arab Spring and "the War on Terror"

[lapal_fan]

Has anyone tried killing all the Jews before?

 

Hmmm... It might just work...

 

 

No but seriously, this is shitty.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I find it quite staggering the way the world almost turns a blind eye to what Israel is doing, just staggering.

Targeting hospitals and ambulances, snippers shooting civilians, it is truly disgusting.

What is the world to do when Israel is backed by the US?

[peterms]

Some Al Jazeera coverage.  Israel doesn't like this kind of thing being shown.

 

So Israel is now shelling the Al Jazeera office.

 

[DanishVillan]

 

 

israel have a lot of power and influence, terrorism is terrorism wether its coming from muslims,jews or whoever.

Bit more complicated than that imo.

For the first  few years of WW2 danish resistance were called terrorists too. By the occupiers and our government. Now we give them medals.

 

 

I agree the boundary between terrorist and freedom fighter is often blurred and the distinction is all too often down to perspective.

 

My own definition though, which I think works is that if a group is fighting a state and state forces it is legitimate for some to consider them freedom fighters even if that view isn't shared by all.

 

However, whenever innocent civilians are intentionally targeted then I don't think any group, whatever the legitimacy of their cause can be considered anything other than terrorists.

 

If Israel is intentionally targeting civilians or civilian facilities such as hospitals that in my view is state terrorism just as Hammas firing rockets at Israeli cities is terrorism.

 

The term Innocent civilian is blurred as well during war. Israel is calling everyone inside Gaza a terrorist or collaborator.

From inside Gaza all adult Israeli could be viewed that way as well. With +2 years of terror training.

[Ikantcpell]

So Hammas claims to have an Israeli soldier, Israel denies it then says 24 hours later one is missing assumed dead.

If Hamas has him he is as good as dead anyway.

[Davkaus]

And the UN continues to sit on its hands.

[Risso]

 

 

israel have a lot of power and influence, terrorism is terrorism wether its coming from muslims,jews or whoever.

Bit more complicated than that imo.

For the first  few years of WW2 danish resistance were called terrorists too. By the occupiers and our government. Now we give them medals.

 

 

I agree the boundary between terrorist and freedom fighter is often blurred and the distinction is all too often down to perspective.

 

My own definition though, which I think works is that if a group is fighting a state and state forces it is legitimate for some to consider them freedom fighters even if that view isn't shared by all.

 

However, whenever innocent civilians are intentionally targeted then I don't think any group, whatever the legitimacy of their cause can be considered anything other than terrorists.

 

If Israel is intentionally targeting civilians or civilian facilities such as hospitals that in my view is state terrorism just as Hammas firing rockets at Israeli cities is terrorism.

 

 

Again, I'm not sticking up one side or the other, but when you have terrorists firing rockets from civilian areas, what is the other side supposed to do?

[Davkaus]

Were rockets being fired from the almost deserted beach that Israel murdered a few children on yesterday?

 

How about the Al Jazeera offices?

Edited July 22, 2014 by Davkaus

[Rugeley Villa]

i was watching an interesting documentary earlier about radical islam, i dont think people realise how deep and widespread it is. its taught in schools to hate america,israel and britain and they teach jihad at an early age, also there are a lot of adverts on tv that promote this. they was interviewing a muslim woman who now lives in the states, shes very westernised and she was saying that all over islam they teach that islam is the only religion and that non believers should be basically killed. she was explaining how deep and widespread it is, she also said that muslims who relocate to non muslim countries there goal is to spread islam as much as they could in the hope that it will take over. she said not all muslims but a lot will seem very freindly and will come across peaceful but its just a show and really they want islam to rule the world. it spoke to former muslims who have left islam because it does not promote peace etc, now as ive said before i dont trust islam one bit and i dont mean to offend anyone but thats the way i feel and this documentary hightened  my paranoia. this was not a documentary done by americans it actually had muslim and ex muslims in it, some people will think its just propoganda but i do believe that a huge percent of the muslim world would want islam to be the only religion and rule the world. this muslim bloke who has studied all the muslim koran and texts said the reason why islam will never be peaceful is because the koran preaches violence and murder against non believers, the prophet muhammed beheaded between 600 and 900 non believers. it was interesting to see the preachers preaching to thousands of people about killing non believers and it also showed you school books where the kids learn about murder and hate. there are a lot of propoganda adverts about how america wants to wipe out islam, by doing this its teaching muslims to hate and fight. i do believe it gets played down a hell of a lot and i think people dont realise the danger but i can also see why they have this hate of the west and israel. i know most people will think im wrong and thats fair enough, i also aint painting all muslims with the same brush but i think there is a huge percentage that are to radicalised.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Rugeley Villa

[blandy]

Again, I'm not sticking up one side or the other, but when you have terrorists firing rockets from civilian areas, what is the other side supposed to do?

1. Protect it's citizens as a far as possible (e.g. Iron Dome)

2. Take reasonable and proportionate steps to stop the attacks immediately

3. Take away the reason for the missile firing

4. Prevent the attackers getting more weapons via working down the supply chain.

Massacring children, shelling hospitals, obliterating innocent civilians and committing war crimes are not any of the above. They are the exact opposite, of 3 of them (the first step is exactly right).

[bickster]

Again, I'm not sticking up one side or the other, but when you have terrorists firing rockets from civilian areas, what is the other side supposed to do?

On the other hand when you have a much more powerful state backed by the USA taking more and more of your land, cutting off your water and generally trying to wipe you off the planet what are you meant to do?

[blandy]

...this documentary hightened my paranoia...

It "worked" then, sadly.

[Rugeley Villa]

 

...this documentary hightened my paranoia...

It "worked" then, sadly.

 

yes it did, im just being honest about how i feel. as ive said before id love islam to show me something positive, maybe to get that id have to go searching for it.

[blandy]

Again, I'm not sticking up one side or the other, but when you have terrorists firing rockets from civilian areas, what is the other side supposed to do?

On the other hand when you have a much more powerful state backed by the USA taking more and more of your land, cutting off your water and generally trying to wipe you off the planet what are you meant to do?

Not firing missiles would be a start. Hamas are not innocent victims. They are firing rockets with the aim of killing indiscriminately.

They are counter productive, utterly. They cannot "win" or alleviate the suffering by doing that. They are also doing the opposite of the right thing.

It takes some saying, though to say they are not the worse offenders in this horrible slaughter.

[blandy]

It "worked" then, sadly

yes it did, im just being honest about how i feel. as ive said before id love islam to show me something positive, maybe to get that id have to go searching for it.

I accept you're being honest. Totally.

How about this type of thing 

Once a fortnight, the Ramazan-I Serif mosque on Shacklewell Lane serves full cooked meals to the poor and those in need in Hackney. These evenings, which have grown in popularity since they started in August 2011, are now a huge success with over 80 people being served.

Hackney’s mosques do all manner of community work to support their worshippers both young and old. What is unique about the Ramazan-I Serif mosque’s community meals is that they are open to all members of the wider local community in need, irrespective of their faith.

The mosque changed its name four years ago to commemorate one of its founders who had passed away. Previously it had been known as Shacklewell Lane Mosque.

The meals project was started by brothers Ismail and Halil Kurek from a desire to do something for their local community. They had the idea after they had volunteered for the Hackney Winter Night Shelter at St Paul’s church in Stoke Newington the previous year. Both had been shocked by what they had been confronted with: local people in real need.

Using the example of Christian groups and their work with the homeless as their inspiration, the Kurek brothers and their fellow worshippers at the mosque discussed what the Muslim community could do.

At first the impetus came from the younger worshippers at the mosque but as word spread more people, including senior worshippers, wanted to be involved.

The volunteers see what they are doing in providing these community meals as an extension of their faith, in giving a service to the community and helping their fellow people.

Shortly after they had the idea, Ismail set about doing some research, aware that he was approaching this from a position of very little experience of the issues involved. He visited North London Action for the Homeless in Stoke Newington to see first-hand what they do. NLAH provide a three course vegetarian meal twice a week to those in need and have run their service for nearly 20 years.

[bickster]

Again, I'm not sticking up one side or the other, but when you have terrorists firing rockets from civilian areas, what is the other side supposed to do?

On the other hand when you have a much more powerful state backed by the USA taking more and more of your land, cutting off your water and generally trying to wipe you off the planet what are you meant to do?

Not firing missiles would be a start. Hamas are not innocent victims. They are firing rockets with the aim of killing indiscriminately.

They are counter productive, utterly. They cannot "win" or alleviate the suffering by doing that. They are also doing the opposite of the right thing.

It takes some saying, though to say they are not the worse offenders in this horrible slaughter.

Oh I completely agree, I was just putting the obvious other side argument to Risso's post which is basically the Israeli's argument. The solution if such a thing exists requires both sides to pack in what they are currently doing.

Its interesting that the media portray this as being purely down to Hamas, until very recently PIJ were firing a much larger amount of rockets Israel's way than Hamas but US / Iranian relationships may have altered that somewhat now.

[Rugeley Villa]

 

 

It "worked" then, sadly

yes it did, im just being honest about how i feel. as ive said before id love islam to show me something positive, maybe to get that id have to go searching for it.

 

I accept you're being honest. Totally.

How about this type of thing 

Once a fortnight, the Ramazan-I Serif mosque on Shacklewell Lane serves full cooked meals to the poor and those in need in Hackney. These evenings, which have grown in popularity since they started in August 2011, are now a huge success with over 80 people being served.

Hackney’s mosques do all manner of community work to support their worshippers both young and old. What is unique about the Ramazan-I Serif mosque’s community meals is that they are open to all members of the wider local community in need, irrespective of their faith.

The mosque changed its name four years ago to commemorate one of its founders who had passed away. Previously it had been known as Shacklewell Lane Mosque.

The meals project was started by brothers Ismail and Halil Kurek from a desire to do something for their local community. They had the idea after they had volunteered for the Hackney Winter Night Shelter at St Paul’s church in Stoke Newington the previous year. Both had been shocked by what they had been confronted with: local people in real need.

Using the example of Christian groups and their work with the homeless as their inspiration, the Kurek brothers and their fellow worshippers at the mosque discussed what the Muslim community could do.

At first the impetus came from the younger worshippers at the mosque but as word spread more people, including senior worshippers, wanted to be involved.

The volunteers see what they are doing in providing these community meals as an extension of their faith, in giving a service to the community and helping their fellow people.

Shortly after they had the idea, Ismail set about doing some research, aware that he was approaching this from a position of very little experience of the issues involved. He visited North London Action for the Homeless in Stoke Newington to see first-hand what they do. NLAH provide a three course vegetarian meal twice a week to those in need and have run their service for nearly 20 years.

 

thats fair enough, i remember mooney posting something else about a mosque helping the jews which i thought was great. its a shame anything positive gets hidden underneath all this evil and hate. 

[TrentVilla]

Again, I'm not sticking up one side or the other, but when you have terrorists firing rockets from civilian areas, what is the other side supposed to do?

1. Protect it's citizens as a far as possible (e.g. Iron Dome)2. Take reasonable and proportionate steps to stop the attacks immediately3. Take away the reason for the missile firing4. Prevent the attackers getting more weapons via working down the supply chain.Massacring children, shelling hospitals, obliterating innocent civilians and committing war crimes are not any of the above. They are the exact opposite, of 3 of them (the first step is exactly right).

Came back to the thread to reply and found I didn't need to.

[snowychap]

And the UN continues to sit on its hands.

 

I'm not sure what the UN can do when its constituent parts aren't willing to function together as any sort of united whole.

That the UN is mostly a joke is the responsibility of the nations themselves and the greatest weight of blame lies on the shoulders of the big cheeses (security council permanent members and down a bit).

[snowychap]

...the first step is exactly right...

Apart from the grammar.

 

That one's for Tony.