Gingerlad Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Mon wouldve struggled big time, look at the injuries, he wanted to sell Bannan, no way would he have backed Hogg and Clark and doubtfull Albrighton wouldve had such a run. It'd be Osbourne, Sidwell, Salif..... i cant bare to say it. Yep, this is O'Neill's mess as much as Houllier's, if not more. O'Neill leaves a dark cloud over every club that he manages and I rue the day that he became involved with our club. In this instance hindsight is a not so wonderful thing. Im glad someone else see's it. Not me. Three consecutive top 6 finishes is enough for me to believe that Oneill would be doing substantially better with a squad that is 95% identical to last year's. Its not tho is it? Milner was a huge player for us last season, huge! Plus, when did mon lose 10 players to injury? He never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarry Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Maybe the players are getting scared of making mistakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaboy69 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 A quote heard on radio by a colleague this morning. 'Gerard Houllier looks like an old bloke who has wandered into a park where a bunch of kids are playing football and decided to stand and watch' I thought that it summed him up pretty nicely. Second thought-those who, like me, spent much of their time heading up the A38 in the 87/88 season must, like me, have a perverse hankering for second tier away days.......... :winkold: Its strange but I was saying this to my son and trying to explain that although I'd hate to see us relegated part of me remembers the great time I had back then. Very perverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran_villa Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 So why are they 1 point from bottom? Do they have to have their arses wiped for them? Why do people defend the players? they're as guilty as anyone. Of course but these are the same players who finished 6th last season bar one. I'd say a manager with any nouse would have us performing at mid table. I think the players are that disinterested, i think MON would even be struggling!!!they are unmotivated by this manager though, its as clear as day that his ideas aren't working. **** me, £50k a week not enough motivation?People on high incomes still need motivation, do you not think Fergie still needs to motivate his players, GH sits on the side line like he's ready to take his last breath. and that useless fool Garry Mac isn't much better both as clueless as each other..its easy for me and you to say we'd run through brick walls for 50k a week, but we aren't in there position are we??. anyway its not like GH is getting paid buttons and doing a great job now is its?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Mon wouldve struggled big time, look at the injuries, he wanted to sell Bannan, no way would he have backed Hogg and Clark and doubtfull Albrighton wouldve had such a run. It'd be Osbourne, Sidwell, Salif..... i cant bare to say it. Yep, this is O'Neill's mess as much as Houllier's, if not more. O'Neill leaves a dark cloud over every club that he manages and I rue the day that he became involved with our club. In this instance hindsight is a not so wonderful thing. Im glad someone else see's it. Not me. Three consecutive top 6 finishes is enough for me to believe that Oneill would be doing substantially better with a squad that is 95% identical to last year's. Its not tho is it? Milner was a huge player for us last season, huge! Plus, when did mon lose 10 players to injury? He never. I accept you're line of thinking, but it's not one I agree with. Milner leaving had nothing to do with Oneill, he was still there when Oneill left. I'd argue that the injuries we've seen have been a mixture of: 1. Overworking of players during training 2. Players not putting the effort in to play when they're feeling a bit off the pace (Agbonlahor, Carew). I would put this down to a lack of motivation & commitment to the Houllier cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adbo9 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 heres my take on Houllier - all IMO of course: Personally I think hes been royally **** over by the chairman, MON & The players. It is plainly obvious to me that the chairman has proper **** up, letting the wage bill spiral out of control and allowing MON to spend over the top on average, aging players that we're struggling to move on and appointing him after the transfer window was shut. Now we are in this position Houllier is going to have his hands tied in the transfer market.......... that isnt GH's fault, thats the Chairmans. Also, Houllier IMO, was appointed by the club to change the culture and the methods longterm, also to look at our youth players, for his extensive knowledge & contacts of the game, and also his proven track record. Now this takes time, and by all accounts, the culture that Houllier is trying to put in place is a world apart from MON's methods. Under MON I dont think the team was managed, just more motivated - the inside track tells us that it was a bit of a holiday camp under MON with players coming & going as they pleased - whereas under GH he is very strict and professional in these methods and expects his players to buy into it - in a nutshell THEYRE NOT and wont play for him............... and dont think a lot of them ever will. I feel Houllier is the man to take us forward, but he needs the time & backing to bring in his own players who will enter into his methods and play for him - if that time & backing isnt the case, we just need to get rid as hes not the man we need and bring in a motivator / pragmatist along the lines of Allardyce to kick our way to safety.......... It is my belief the chairman wants to change the culture behind the scenes on the playing staff as hes had his fingers well & truly burnt financially with the previous regime, and I think Houllier is that man to do it - but Lerner is gonna need balls of steel to hold on till the results turn, and they will turn under Houllier - but hes gonna need a few of his "own men" on the field leading from the front to kickstart it........ MON was overrated, his brand of football only takes you so far for so long and every club he departs, he departs when it cant go any further cos hes spent all the money or hes got too many old players on huge contracts............... this is what is hindering Houllier I aggree, results have been a shambles, performances up & down, and Houllier has made mistakes in selections for some games - but lets be realistic - hes had most of our senior pro's injured for longspells - a few who wouldnt even put a shirt on for him........ this will take time to sort.......... But ive got faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Mon wouldve struggled big time, look at the injuries, he wanted to sell Bannan, no way would he have backed Hogg and Clark and doubtfull Albrighton wouldve had such a run. It'd be Osbourne, Sidwell, Salif..... i cant bare to say it. Yep, this is O'Neill's mess as much as Houllier's, if not more. O'Neill leaves a dark cloud over every club that he manages and I rue the day that he became involved with our club. In this instance hindsight is a not so wonderful thing. Im glad someone else see's it. Not me. Three consecutive top 6 finishes is enough for me to believe that Oneill would be doing substantially better with a squad that is 95% identical to last year's. Its not tho is it? Milner was a huge player for us last season, huge! Plus, when did mon lose 10 players to injury? He never. Agree 100% Gingerlad, but we will never know because the spineless muppet showed just how little respect he had for this great club with his actions in August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b6bloke Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 GH's tactics have to be questioned, talking of questions Why did he leave it until the 88th minute to make a sub? Even then he played Young and Bannon at the back for which there are numerous reason why this was mad! Why did he play Gabby on the left and Young up front! it wasn't working and again where the hell did that come from! Gabby was inaffective, he looked lost and was more than frustrated with the lack of service. Who the hell is going to sign for us now in the position we are in, don't forget that players talk between each other from other clubs and they will know what exactly going on behind the scenes. WE ARE GOING TO LOSE STAR PLAYERS NOT SIGN THEM! When is the club going to come out with some sort of comment on the situation whether it is to back him or not they need to tell the fans. Where is GH's passion? how often does he get off the bench shouting instructions? he may as well stand there with an umberella! For the anti GH chants last night there was certainly a split in the fans on whether to join in or not and some were even looking at the people around them to either if they were singing but I have no doubts that those voices will grow louder to the point of deafening if we lose agains the scum. I acknowledge Lerner for not pressing the panic button but he is making a real gamble, I just hope that he is prepared for the consequences of failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I was initially one for giving Ged a chance due to injuries etc. but the last month or so, when many of the injuries have been sorted, show that he does not have a clue how to set up a PL team in modern times. - Collins has been terrible but retains his place. - I can see his rationale for dropping Warnock but dropping him completely from the squad? How is that going to help him get his confidence back. - Petrov and NRC are not a CM pairing - there is no creativity and a massive gap between the CM and strikers. They can potentially play in a three with an attacking CM'er but the only one of those that we have is SI and he doesn't want to give him a shot. - Petrov staying on after 60 minutes ..... Please. - DJ on the right when we are playing a right footed player on the left! - Gabby as a LW? - Ash cannot play in the hole. He works his butt off and I love him for that effort but he has no impact. The only time he affected the game at all last night was when he found himself out wide and got a good cross in. - No subs last night until the 88th minute and the formation we ended up with?? Reminiscent of the MON Barry to left back bring on another forward and have no midfield. Crazy! Most points I agree with, maybe debate the petrov and coker points as I think the biggest problem lies with having the flanks setup correctly which youve pointed out anyway. Though on the giving a chance I was definitely shouting that he needs time, he needs a window and a preseason...though I also said we needed to avoid relegation. Currently I'm not so sure about avoiding relegation under this manager, and the few games of good play such as the manu game where I could see what he was trying to do have escaped me of late. Now I just cannot see what hes trying to do and I just dont know what to think. In honesty the jury is still out but the tide is turning for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I would like to clarify that i'm not really defending the actions of Oneill. But Houllier inherited a squad full of internationals; what he has done with these players since taking over has had absolutely nothing to do with Oneill. There's no way a team that can boast 11 full internationals should be knocking about the basement of the premier league. But yes, Oneill was a tosser for the way he left us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Either way the board appear to have backed him... so I hope the results drastically improve or we will be looking at second-tier football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b6bloke Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 A quote heard on radio by a colleague this morning. 'Gerard Houllier looks like an old bloke who has wandered into a park where a bunch of kids are playing football and decided to stand and watch' I thought that it summed him up pretty nicely. Second thought-those who, like me, spent much of their time heading up the A38 in the 87/88 season must, like me, have a perverse hankering for second tier away days.......... :winkold: Its strange but I was saying this to my son and trying to explain that although I'd hate to see us relegated part of me remembers the great time I had back then. Very perverse This was being discussed last night and some of the younger fans around us were a little confused by the smiles as we remanised, they were saying that they would still follow the villa home and away and it brought back memories :winkold: If we get relagated we will lose most of this squad and I think we have some great players coming through that would be a good base for rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Mon wouldve struggled big time, look at the injuries, he wanted to sell Bannan, no way would he have backed Hogg and Clark and doubtfull Albrighton wouldve had such a run. It'd be Osbourne, Sidwell, Salif..... i cant bare to say it. Yep, this is O'Neill's mess as much as Houllier's, if not more. O'Neill leaves a dark cloud over every club that he manages and I rue the day that he became involved with our club. In this instance hindsight is a not so wonderful thing. Im glad someone else see's it.I'm interested to know what is the point of blaming all this on MON? What practical benefit do we get from that? Does it get us any more points than we have, does it improve our league position? We can't call him back and insist he clears up his mess, can we? I don't really care whose "fault" our current position is. There is one person whose job it is to get the team playing winning football and get us moving up the league. His name is Houllier. He is responsible for our performances and results NOW and, frankly, he is not doing a good enough job. If posting on Villatalk how this was all MON's fault would improve our performances and results by even 1%, I would be doing it 24 hours a day, but it will not, and we need to focus on the failings of the person in whose hands our team's fate now sits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The squad also lacks new faces. Alot of them have become stale and lost confidence as they know each others limitations. They need a few faces to freshen up the atmosphere.. a couple of confident characters who can re build the squad around. Walker and if we get Makoun would be a good start.. but i think we need another left back CM and at least 1 striker.. two if Carew departs. Will Lerner back him with funds now that Houllier is staying? Randy has to back Houllier with funds or we will get relegated.. no matter who the manager is.. the confidence is shot.. we need new players.. and good ones. Good luck Gerrard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 has he got the boot yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 heres my take on Houllier - all IMO of course: Personally I think hes been royally **** over by the chairman, MON & The players. It is plainly obvious to me that the chairman has proper **** up, letting the wage bill spiral out of control and allowing MON to spend over the top on average, aging players that we're struggling to move on and appointing him after the transfer window was shut. Now we are in this position Houllier is going to have his hands tied in the transfer market.......... that isnt GH's fault, thats the Chairmans. Also, Houllier IMO, was appointed by the club to change the culture and the methods longterm, also to look at our youth players, for his extensive knowledge & contacts of the game, and also his proven track record. Now this takes time, and by all accounts, the culture that Houllier is trying to put in place is a world apart from MON's methods. Under MON I dont think the team was managed, just more motivated - the inside track tells us that it was a bit of a holiday camp under MON with players coming & going as they pleased - whereas under GH he is very strict and professional in these methods and expects his players to buy into it - in a nutshell THEYRE NOT and wont play for him............... and dont think a lot of them ever will. I feel Houllier is the man to take us forward, but he needs the time & backing to bring in his own players who will enter into his methods and play for him - if that time & backing isnt the case, we just need to get rid as hes not the man we need and bring in a motivator / pragmatist along the lines of Allardyce to kick our way to safety.......... It is my belief the chairman wants to change the culture behind the scenes on the playing staff as hes had his fingers well & truly burnt financially with the previous regime, and I think Houllier is that man to do it - but Lerner is gonna need balls of steel to hold on till the results turn, and they will turn under Houllier - but hes gonna need a few of his "own men" on the field leading from the front to kickstart it........ MON was overrated, his brand of football only takes you so far for so long and every club he departs, he departs when it cant go any further cos hes spent all the money or hes got too many old players on huge contracts............... this is what is hindering Houllier I aggree, results have been a shambles, performances up & down, and Houllier has made mistakes in selections for some games - but lets be realistic - hes had most of our senior pro's injured for longspells - a few who wouldnt even put a shirt on for him........ this will take time to sort.......... But ive got faith My beleif is that Houllier sold the board his vision:- Young players Foreign players - scouted from GH'S CONTACTS Cheaper transfer fees and wages as a result of these young foreign kids Revultionise the training methods Revolultionise the scouting system It seems to me the board are so taken with the vision - of a better team on greatly reduced costs - they just can not see that Houllier is 'blagging it' - the Nirvana they hope for doesn't exist. - Yes we will get the costs down - at the cost of premier league football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunderstudy Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The whole club needs a **** strip down and rebuild. At least we could do that if we were relegated, although I still don't want us to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b6bloke Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 has he got the boot yet? No he apparently has had the backing of the board but sadly not in a deadly doug way :evil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran_villa Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 has he got the boot yet? No he apparently has had the backing of the board but sadly not in a deadly doug way :evil:It kills me to say this, but i think we are going down. Randy will learn the had way from his shit appointments.a few tiles on the holte isn't going to save this club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didiersix Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 My beleif is that Houllier sold the board his vision:- Young players Foreign players - scouted from GH'S CONTACTS Cheaper transfer fees and wages as a result of these young foreign kids Revultionise the training methods Revolultionise the scouting system It seems to me the board are so taken with the vision - of a better team on greatly reduced costs - they just can not see that Houllier is 'blagging it' - the Nirvana they hope for doesn't exist. - Yes we will get the costs down - at the cost of premier league football. I do think there is an underlying problem with the lack of football 'knowledge'/contacts that exist at Villa. Faulkner/Lerner have to put their trust in Houllier because they know no one else. Their headhunter told them he was the best man for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts