TrentVilla Posted January 5, 2011 Moderator Share Posted January 5, 2011 If we were sitting 8th-10th now, every Villa fan would take it over where we are now, no doubt about that. But it's very easy to say "If we were 8th-10th then the majority of fans would be content" when we are sitting in this situation now. If we were sitting in 10th without having to go through all of this I don't think many fans would be happy still, but then of course we can't really judge As you say its hard to judge but I do think if we were sat 8-10th playing better football than we were last season and bringing kids though, most, not all but most would have accepted that for a season in the hope it left us better placed to push on next season. Guess we will never know for sure either way. there was no comparison it wouldn't be a lot different and the Houllier Out brigade would still be active IMO. And then of course there's also the fans who hated Houllier and loved MON from the start who will do anything to get their point across at every single opportunity given. Please try and not label people in this way it does nothing but detract from the otherwise decent points you are making. He's inherited, in truth, a mess. The squad are deflated from last season and Man City's emergence has ruined them. It's nowhere near the level of the squad last season and as I said in a previous thread, some people underestimate the value Milner was to our squad, not just in £. He held us together at times both with his attacking and defensive work every single game, I rarely remember a game when he went missing. With Barry it was not so difficult as we easily replaced him by moving Milner to the middle, but with Milner a huge gap needs to be filled, hopefully by the signing of Makoun which is supposedly imminent. As I said previously he has both inherited and created a mess in my view. As for Makoun, we will see but I have serious doubts it will happen. I'm glad Houllier has finally realised his mistakes, brought Dunne back into the side and reverted to a similar style we used to play under MON, as short term we need to sort this out and for that I applaud him. But as long as we keep it up I have no problems with his management style IF we stay up, as we can reassess in Summer. This season we must simply not get relegated. In hindsight, if we stay up, I'll be content... anything above that and it will have been a decent turnaround. But not a decent season. It's difficult to judge, because I was quietly confident about Houllier before he arrived. I just believe he needs time to prove himself should he turn this around and should we stay up. As I said previously it comes down to results now and nothing else really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellyoakvilla Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Of course another argument is injuries, if MON had the same kind of injuries we had then I'm not sure how he would have coped. But then some can say the different style of training implemented by GH caused these injuries. There are so many decent points being raised in this thread but there is always a "but then again..." style point, so it's just so difficult to judge any of this situation. If we're still in the cup and have 6 extra points come Sunday January 16 at 2pm then I'd say we've successfuly turned this around for the timebeing, hopefully we can push on from the Chelsea game and maybe we can get some decent additions in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 ^^^But not all managers would have blundered in and made things worse, as he seems to have done. Of course not, but there's not many managers that would have done better than he has I just can't get my head around this sort of attitude, to me that indicates that whats happened this season is acceptable and even with injuries I can't understand how anyone can think it is. The list of negatives we've seen from the team under houllier is not acceptable in my book and already I think he's shown he's not the man to take us past what we did last season. Like Trent said I don't think any sensible villa fan would have minded going backwards this season but the amount we've slipped in the short time span is truly a worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellyoakvilla Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 ^^^But not all managers would have blundered in and made things worse, as he seems to have done. Of course not, but there's not many managers that would have done better than he has I just can't get my head around this sort of attitude, to me that indicates that whats happened this season is acceptable and even with injuries I can't understand how anyone can think it is. The list of negatives we've seen from the team under houllier is not acceptable in my book and already I think he's shown he's not the man to take us past what we did last season. Like Trent said I don't think any sensible villa fan would have minded going backwards this season but the amount we've slipped in the short time span is truly a worry. Of course it's a worry, and I agree with you on that part, but I believe this is just short term. I don't think anyone expected us to fall from grace this much, but I do believe the calls for Houllier to be sacked are a little premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 A win tonight would certainly do GH a world of good & give him a bit of breathing space. Anything less & I think he would be under a lot of pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'm reminded of Spurs sacking Ramos in October after their worst start to a Premier League season. They then appointed Redknapp, finished 8th that season and the rest is history. It's all about appointing the right man. Houllier is not that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret75 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 ^^^But not all managers would have blundered in and made things worse, as he seems to have done. Of course not, but there's not many managers that would have done better than he has I just can't get my head around this sort of attitude, to me that indicates that whats happened this season is acceptable and even with injuries I can't understand how anyone can think it is. The list of negatives we've seen from the team under houllier is not acceptable in my book and already I think he's shown he's not the man to take us past what we did last season. Like Trent said I don't think any sensible villa fan would have minded going backwards this season but the amount we've slipped in the short time span is truly a worry. I agree with sellyoak that injuries have been a big factor in us dropping down the table, by far the biggest in fact and tbh, I can't believe my ears when people say the injury situation is just an excuse. I guess GH could be criticised for changing things too quickly, but I think the drop off in form caused by the injuries is a small sacrifice for long term gain. I don't agree with the way GH has talked about players in public, but having said that, without the injuries there's a fair chance we'd be top 8 and a number of fans might have a different perspective on the likes of Ireland and Carew being tongue lashed in the press. If we were winning people wouldn't be concentrating so much on GH's negatives and the main reason we're not winning, IMO, is injuries. With players coming back to match fitness, I think we'll start picking up points, don't see any reason why we can't with the players we've got available. Long live GH!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Whoever came in this season, I always felt was going to do worse, It's how much worse he does which will be the defining factor in whether he's here next season in my opinion. Well having this 'success' under MON has meant whatever manager came in next would be subject to intense pressure and anything below what we achieved under the aforementioned would just not be acceptable to some fans.Why should it be? I am not saying it should be, I'm simply saying anything below 6th and cup runs, even if we finished 8th it would be deemed not good enough I don't agree actually, I think the vast majority would have accepted a little going backwards to go forwards. What they've not been willing to accept is how far (at this moment in time) we appear to have gone back and how quickly. But the current situation looks far worse than it actually is because of everyone beating everyone else at the bottom of the table. Would 10th have been good enough this season? In 2 games we could realistically be 12th, and we've had a hard run of games. To me we have gone a little bit backwards to go forwards. We've had a few abject performances, but I honestly believe we will be fighting for Europe at the end of this season if Houllier is still in charge. Bring someone else in now and we risk never having chance to get going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Had we hung on to the leads in the first place we wouldn't be in this position.. whats it like 13 points we could've had if we held on to leads or something? Our inability to hold on to a lead is biting us back in the bum, oh and before people say this is GH fault it happened under 2-3 managers now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchavfc Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 have we gone backwards? or have others improved to our level. This (and this is my opinion) situation has been on the cards for the last 18 months. We got sussed by other teams last season and rode our 'luck' to end up 6th. Performances have not been good for a while and to our favour other teams have been just as bad. New manager was always going to mean a new system and personnel and so called established players were always going to have to adapt or leave, this is now more apparent. At this moment in time Houllier is Aston Villa and we need to support him and the players, he has secured the youger players on longer contracts so the future as I see it is looking up. It now down to over pampered and payed players to prove their worth and wages, they are proffessional players and should be able to adapt, if they want to! And that is more to the point of Villas position, do the players want to play for Villa, regardless of manager, or are we just another pay day for them. Hopefully Sunday showed that they do want to play for the Team now they've got to do it at home, infront of their Home fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 We got sussed by other teams last season Not everyone will agree with this but its funny how they always target the left side of the field when they need the goals or if we are leading.. they know Warnock gets skinned far too easily - I've seen it happen so many times this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 At this moment in time Houllier is Aston Villa Never. Not now not ever. He is the manager of the club, he is not the club. he has secured the youger players on longer contracts which ones as a matter of interest? do the players want to play for Villa Here you go again confusing Houllier with the club! It is more a matter of whether they want to play for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 he has secured the youger players on longer contracts which ones as a matter of interest? Albrighton, Clark and Lichaj have all signed contracts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claret75 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 he has secured the youger players on longer contracts which ones as a matter of interest? Albrighton, Clark and Lichaj have all signed contracts Hogg too I believe. Bannan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I'm reminded of Spurs sacking Ramos in October after their worst start to a Premier League season. They then appointed Redknapp, finished 8th that season and the rest is history. It's all about appointing the right man. Houllier is not that man. We haven't been that bad though, different situations too, very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Pires said in The Sun: "What's certain is that the two games coming up against Sunderland and against Sheffield United in the FA Cup will be very, very decisive for Gerard's future." Rumours of dissent in the dressing room have also surfaced. "It's true it's a bit tense. Gerard is having trouble getting his message across," Pires said. "He is used to a certain way of working and he arrives with new methods. "From what I've understood, there have been several meetings between Gerard and the players who didn't really agree with him. Read this just and I am disgusted with the players if what Pires says is true. It's not the players place to criticise the managers methods, especially when they haven't even given them a chance. Players play, managers manage! I hope we have a good clear out this month because we bloody need it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Pires is a joker who needs to be kicked out of the club quick sharp IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran_villa Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Pires said in The Sun: "What's certain is that the two games coming up against Sunderland and against Sheffield United in the FA Cup will be very, very decisive for Gerard's future." Rumours of dissent in the dressing room have also surfaced. "It's true it's a bit tense. Gerard is having trouble getting his message across," Pires said. "He is used to a certain way of working and he arrives with new methods. "From what I've understood, there have been several meetings between Gerard and the players who didn't really agree with him. Read this just and I am disgusted with the players if what Pires says is true. It's not the players place to criticise the managers methods, especially when they haven't even given them a chance. Players play, managers manage! I hope we have a good clear out this month because we bloody need it!What about the manager talking rubbish about players he hasn't given a chance, if he wants to talk to the press like a tool the players will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Had we hung on to the leads in the first place we wouldn't be in this position.. whats it like 13 points we could've had if we held on to leads or something? Our inability to hold on to a lead is biting us back in the bum, oh and before people say this is GH fault it happened under 2-3 managers now..Not sure you're right there. Last season's statistics were: Took lead/won - 13 games Took lead/drew - 5 Took lead/lost - 2 Conceded first/lost - 6 Conceded first/drew - 4 Conceded first/won - 4 0-0 draws - 4 So we were pegged back to draw in 5 games where we scored first, and to losses in 2. To balance that, we fought back to a draw in 4 having conceded first, and to win in 4. The idea that historically we have had a big problem with conceding leading positions is one of those unkillable urban myths that stalks Villatalk. This season we have already fallen to 3 draws and 2 defeats when we have scored first and have only managed one draw in games when we conceded first. So we have a lot of ground to make up in the second half of the season to come anywhere near the resilience levels of last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Where are those statistics from? Took/lead lost - 2 games? Are you sure about those stats? I'm pretty sure we lost more last season whilst we had the lead.. could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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