Shillzz Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Yeah he definitely needs to start, and imagine that he probably will in the Carling Cup against Blackbu.... Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNichollsToe Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Needs a full 90mins for me. Ten minutes here and there is nowhere near enough to either recover his form or make any kind of impact. Well, he may get that chance. Lets hope he takes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I think it's time we gave Ireland a run in the team. I have a feeling it may be Jenas, Petrov and Ireland against Newcastle. I hope you are right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holtelower Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I agree with most on here. Picking up the points is OK at the moment, but these draws need to be turned into a couple of wins. 6 points in 4 games is steady. After 8 games there is a hell of a lot of diffence between 12 points (with mostly draws) 16 points (as with 3 wins and 1 draw). One will put us in the bottom 6, the worries start and a relegation fight is on the cards. One puts us in the top 6, on cloud 9 and dreaming of what can be - thus the confidence has a huge factor. Now onto this, Heskey has been OK - nowt more, nowt less - he has contributed to keeping us tight, its no coincidence that as soon as he went off, we conceded. But it's time to think about winning games, not, not losing them. On paper, Fulham and Everton away are tough, and although anyone including Burton Albion should beat Blackburn, Wolves for us (local derby) is also tough. But now its time to give Bent some service, and for that, you need two of Albrighton, Bannan, Jenas and Ireland in the team. Giving that Jenas is injured and you would think when fit, will replace a woefully out of form Delph, then at the moment you've gotta say Ireland or Bannan must start. Personally, I'd like to see Ireland given a start against Newcastle and Bolton - maybe withdrawing him if we are comfortable for Bannan in both second half. We have to see what he can do. As someone said - he is the key to our demise over the last year - and if he isnt going to do it, he needs shipping out and replacing. The only way to see that is to give him a go - if he is crap - put Bannan on - simple, and say "thanks, but no thanks" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNichollsToe Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I agree with most on here. Picking up the points is OK at the moment, but these draws need to be turned into a couple of wins. 6 points in 4 games is steady. After 8 games there is a hell of a lot of diffence between 12 points (with mostly draws) 16 points (as with 3 wins and 1 draw). One will put us in the bottom 6, the worries start and a relegation fight is on the cards. One puts us in the top 6, on cloud 9 and dreaming of what can be - thus the confidence has a huge factor. Now onto this, Heskey has been OK - nowt more, nowt less - he has contributed to keeping us tight, its no coincidence that as soon as he went off, we conceded. But it's time to think about winning games, not, not losing them. On paper, Fulham and Everton away are tough, and although anyone including Burton Albion should beat Blackburn, Wolves for us (local derby) is also tough. But now its time to give Bent some service, and for that, you need two of Albrighton, Bannan, Jenas and Ireland in the team. Giving that Jenas is injured and you would think when fit, will replace a woefully out of form Delph, then at the moment you've gotta say Ireland or Bannan must start. Personally, I'd like to see Ireland given a start against Newcastle and Bolton - maybe withdrawing him if we are comfortable for Bannan in both second half. We have to see what he can do. As someone said - he is the key to our demise over the last year - and if he isnt going to do it, he needs shipping out and replacing. The only way to see that is to give him a go - if he is crap - put Bannan on - simple, and say "thanks, but no thanks" Spot on post 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I agree with most on here. Picking up the points is OK at the moment, but these draws need to be turned into a couple of wins. 6 points in 4 games is steady. After 8 games there is a hell of a lot of diffence between 12 points (with mostly draws) 16 points (as with 3 wins and 1 draw). One will put us in the bottom 6, the worries start and a relegation fight is on the cards. One puts us in the top 6, on cloud 9 and dreaming of what can be - thus the confidence has a huge factor. Now onto this, Heskey has been OK - nowt more, nowt less - he has contributed to keeping us tight, its no coincidence that as soon as he went off, we conceded. But it's time to think about winning games, not, not losing them. On paper, Fulham and Everton away are tough, and although anyone including Burton Albion should beat Blackburn, Wolves for us (local derby) is also tough. But now its time to give Bent some service, and for that, you need two of Albrighton, Bannan, Jenas and Ireland in the team. Giving that Jenas is injured and you would think when fit, will replace a woefully out of form Delph, then at the moment you've gotta say Ireland or Bannan must start. Personally, I'd like to see Ireland given a start against Newcastle and Bolton - maybe withdrawing him if we are comfortable for Bannan in both second half. We have to see what he can do. As someone said - he is the key to our demise over the last year - and if he isnt going to do it, he needs shipping out and replacing. The only way to see that is to give him a go - if he is crap - put Bannan on - simple, and say "thanks, but no thanks" Spot on post 8) Petrov, Bannan, Ireland should be the midfiled 3 in the next match and Allbrighton should start ahead of Nzogbia who like Fabian Delph has bought nothing to the team so far unfortunatly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philgetaway Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I agree with most on here. Picking up the points is OK at the moment, but these draws need to be turned into a couple of wins. 6 points in 4 games is steady. After 8 games there is a hell of a lot of diffence between 12 points (with mostly draws) 16 points (as with 3 wins and 1 draw). One will put us in the bottom 6, the worries start and a relegation fight is on the cards. One puts us in the top 6, on cloud 9 and dreaming of what can be - thus the confidence has a huge factor. Now onto this, Heskey has been OK - nowt more, nowt less - he has contributed to keeping us tight, its no coincidence that as soon as he went off, we conceded. But it's time to think about winning games, not, not losing them. On paper, Fulham and Everton away are tough, and although anyone including Burton Albion should beat Blackburn, Wolves for us (local derby) is also tough. But now its time to give Bent some service, and for that, you need two of Albrighton, Bannan, Jenas and Ireland in the team. Giving that Jenas is injured and you would think when fit, will replace a woefully out of form Delph, then at the moment you've gotta say Ireland or Bannan must start. Personally, I'd like to see Ireland given a start against Newcastle and Bolton - maybe withdrawing him if we are comfortable for Bannan in both second half. We have to see what he can do. As someone said - he is the key to our demise over the last year - and if he isnt going to do it, he needs shipping out and replacing. The only way to see that is to give him a go - if he is crap - put Bannan on - simple, and say "thanks, but no thanks" Spot on post 8) Totally agree with the post, we need to push on and try and beat the sides coming up, else we will regret it over the tough xmas. Not sure about the Delph bit. Like many others he had a bad game on Saturday - he's not woefully out of form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBGB Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Disagree that Delph is "woefully out of form" and has "brought nothing to the team so far". He's finally getting a run of games and had a crap one on Saturday - it happens, especially to youngsters. Up to then, most people were pretty happy with how he was playing. In theory, giving Ireland a full 90 minutes is good, but on Saturday's evidence Bannan is ahead of him and he doesn't play in Delph's position. So he's gong to need to impress as a substitute and look to Cup games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I think you will see a different Delph in a properly structured 4-3-3: ----------- Petrov ------------ --------------- Delph -------- ------- SI -------------------- This will allow him to act as the playmaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I just don't get personally why Ireland should be involved myself or in that role, just not sure it works myself or basically he works in that role. Maybe others outside AVFC can do it but Ireland hasn't shown any reason why he should be considered IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I just don't get personally why Ireland should be involved myself or in that role, just not sure it works myself or basically he works in that role. Maybe others outside AVFC can do it but Ireland hasn't shown any reason why he should be considered IMO. Three reasons for me: 1. In an ideal world he would have been shipped out in the summer and replaced with Jimmy Milner or Shaqiri. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world and we are sitting on a player who is costing us £65k pw - a sizeable chunk of our limited wage bill. He is not going anywhere currently and we have to make the decision to try and get him involved and see if he can recapture his best form (in which case he would be good value) or let him rot and write off £8m + (£65k x 52wks x length of contract) = a f***ing shedload. 2. I did think he looked like he was up for it when he came on at the weekend. For the first time in his Villa career he looked like he wanted to prove he could play. 3. I don't think we really have that many options for ACM and, again personally, I think that's probably the way we need to play given our CM options and Bent up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Fair enough but I don't think in terms of 1) it should have any bearing on the team decision, just play the best team, not who's earning/cost the most. Too reliant on 'if' he captures his best form, it's been saying that for 2 years now and a year now at Villa, just not going to happen. 2. I can't say, didn't see the game! 3. For the way we play, I think an ACM is exactly what we don't need imo, we're never going to work the ball around the park and into areas where players like Ireland can get on the ball enough to go and cause problems and be effective, similar to O'Neill and when we played 4-5-1, we always had a solid base of 3 midfielders, petrov/barry/sidwell or coker/sidwell/petrov ...weren't pretty but it was effective. Petrov/Jenas/Delph(or Bannan) could do similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Anyone watching channel 4 dispatches? Edit - oops wrong thread, was supposed to post this in off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Fair enough but I don't think in terms of 1) it should have any bearing on the team decision, just play the best team, not who's earning/cost the most. Too reliant on 'if' he captures his best form, it's been saying that for 2 years now and a year now at Villa, just not going to happen. To a large extent I would agree with your view here BUT I just think we have to give him a decent chance to see if we can either get value from his playing or get someone interested in him so we can move him on - although if the latter happens we are probably getting value. For the way we play, I think an ACM is exactly what we don't need imo, we're never going to work the ball around the park and into areas where players like Ireland can get on the ball enough to go and cause problems and be effective, similar to O'Neill and when we played 4-5-1, we always had a solid base of 3 midfielders, petrov/barry/sidwell or coker/sidwell/petrov ...weren't pretty but it was effective. Petrov/Jenas/Delph(or Bannan) could do similar. I always saw Sidders as the ACM of the three. He might not have been the most effective but he was prepared to take up more advanced positions and try and get shots in, but I accept that he was also willing to put a shift in defensively - although not always to the best effect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellbydate Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I agree with most on here. Picking up the points is OK at the moment, but these draws need to be turned into a couple of wins. 6 points in 4 games is steady. After 8 games there is a hell of a lot of diffence between 12 points (with mostly draws) 16 points (as with 3 wins and 1 draw). One will put us in the bottom 6, the worries start and a relegation fight is on the cards. One puts us in the top 6, on cloud 9 and dreaming of what can be - thus the confidence has a huge factor. Now onto this, Heskey has been OK - nowt more, nowt less - he has contributed to keeping us tight, its no coincidence that as soon as he went off, we conceded. But it's time to think about winning games, not, not losing them. On paper, Fulham and Everton away are tough, and although anyone including Burton Albion should beat Blackburn, Wolves for us (local derby) is also tough. But now its time to give Bent some service, and for that, you need two of Albrighton, Bannan, Jenas and Ireland in the team. Giving that Jenas is injured and you would think when fit, will replace a woefully out of form Delph, then at the moment you've gotta say Ireland or Bannan must start. Personally, I'd like to see Ireland given a start against Newcastle and Bolton - maybe withdrawing him if we are comfortable for Bannan in both second half. We have to see what he can do. As someone said - he is the key to our demise over the last year - and if he isnt going to do it, he needs shipping out and replacing. The only way to see that is to give him a go - if he is crap - put Bannan on - simple, and say "thanks, but no thanks" Spot on post 8) Totally agree with the post, we need to push on and try and beat the sides coming up, else we will regret it over the tough xmas. Not sure about the Delph bit. Like many others he had a bad game on Saturday - he's not woefully out of form. Had to re-quote this for effect. A reasoned, non-reactionary assessment of the season so far. Did i accidentally type in the wrong URL? It certainly looks like VillaTalk, but... Agree with the last guy about Delph though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy_0'Neill Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 People seem to be forgetting that our formation is 4-2-3-1 not really 4-3-3. Bent can only play as a lone front man. Having two sitting DM's gives the smaller craftier players like Ireland, Bannan and Alby licence to create for our lone ranger. Heskey isn't right, N'zogs is struggling to settle, Gabby has done okay but wouldn't work in a technically skilled three. Oh, and it's nice to see someone has their crystal ball out to say Ireland won't ever come good for us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TezzRexx Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I think Ireland's been given a really hard time. He was picking up momentum in December before getting a nock and then getting dropped by Houllier under pressure. Plus he couldn't fit in a team of the time of 1 striker, Downing, Young and Albrighton. So I'd like to see this kind of formation. -Gabby--Bent--N'Zog- --------Ireland--------- ----Delph---Stan------ Granted it does leave us quite narrow and there would be a lot of pressure on Delph and Stan to prevent attack from the wings, but the Zog is doing a good job of chipping in defensively so I think this could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Oh, and it's nice to see someone has their crystal ball out to say Ireland won't ever come good for us... Who needs a crystal ball? He's the only player at the Villa who would struggle to put together a 2 minute youtube 'highlights' compilation?? All these people who think he will ever come good!!! Let's see it on the pitch and not in your imagination!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisNichollsToe Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I think Ireland's been given a really hard time. . Sorry mate, but Ireland has not been fair on himself either. How many games did he get at Newcastle? Will agree that Houllier was the wrong style of manager for such a delicate and complex individual such as Steven Ireland, but i do remember the frenchman did give him games, which he simply failed to impress. Its like the old adage, "don't tell me, show me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 People seem to be forgetting that our formation is 4-2-3-1 not really 4-3-3. Bent can only play as a lone front man. Having two sitting DM's gives the smaller craftier players like Ireland, Bannan and Alby licence to create for our lone ranger. Heskey isn't right, N'zogs is struggling to settle, Gabby has done okay but wouldn't work in a technically skilled three. Oh, and it's nice to see someone has their crystal ball out to say Ireland won't ever come good for us... I must admit, I'm so busy on the weekends these days I've only got to see us properly against Wolves, and to me it looked like we played more of a 4-4-2 that day at least. The only deviation from a straight 4-4-2 was Heskey playing a little deeper. NZ....Petrov...Delph...Gabby .|.......Heskey..................|.... .v...........^..........Bent......v..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts