Zatman Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 as a 4th choice he would be ok as would be on smaller salary. Dont mind him staying but as backup not as 1st choice 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 I prefer Herd at CB to him. At least Herd can win a header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I prefer Herd at CB to him. At least Herd can win a header. What did I just read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 remember central defenders develop slower than strikers. you need more experience for that position. Michael Dawson at Tottenham is an example. He used to make all sorts of clangers after he signed as a 22 year old. He's still there and is now highly-rated by other professionals and is the team captain. I could forgive the errors - if there was some redeeming features in the rest of his game. IE if he made a few great tackles, or nullified the opposing teams forwards......he does none of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamsonwoodVillan Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 I've just never rated the kid. Very lightweight and doesn't win enough headers and tackles for a centre back. And to be as lightweight as he is at this level, you have to compensate for it with good pace. Clark doesn't have this either. Like someone else said, young yes but he isn't a teenager any more. I just hope we buy a complete new defence for next year, regardless of the league we're in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packoman Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 (edited) I think this little spell out will be good for him. I might be in the minority but I don't think he's had a poor season, he's just made a few mistakes that cost us. Edited April 5, 2013 by packoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I think this little spell out will be good for him. I might be in the minority but I don't think he's had a poor season, he's just made a few mistakes that cost us. I'm with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Like with Bannan, eventually people will clamber aboard and say they knew all along he'd be a great player. When they do they'd say it was impossible to know before how good he'd become. They are wrong. You can tell now. You just need to adjust your expectations. All defenders make mistakes during a season. Clark hasn't made that many errors. According to Squawka, who keep track, Clark has made 4 "defensive errors". Any error is too many but I'm sure 4 is not as much as you guys are thinking it is. We concede a lot of goals because all the entire defence is inexperienced, and make mistakes, not because Clark is every game. How many "defensive errors" have CBs Rio Ferdinand and Johnny Evans - Premier League Champions this season - made? Ferdinand has made 2 errors, Evans has made 1 error. Better than Clark's 4 but then they are the PL Champions. Surely you don't expect Clark to perform better than them? Expectations. Earlier in the thread I compared Clark to Thomas Vermaelen, because both are playmaking CBs. People laughed at me. Well, Vermaelen has so far made 6 defensive errors. Arsenal would have done better defensively with Clark this season (Vermaelen is better going forward). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folski Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Like with Bannan, eventually people will clamber aboard and say they knew all along he'd be a great player. When they do they'd say it was impossible to know before how good he'd become. They are wrong. You can tell now. You just need to adjust your expectations. All defenders make mistakes during a season. Clark hasn't made that many errors. According to Squawka, who keep track, Clark has made 4 "defensive errors". Any error is too many but I'm sure 4 is not as much as you guys are thinking it is. We concede a lot of goals because all the entire defence is inexperienced, and make mistakes, not because Clark is every game. How many "defensive errors" have CBs Rio Ferdinand and Johnny Evans - Premier League Champions this season - made? Ferdinand has made 2 errors, Evans has made 1 error. Better than Clark's 4 but then they are the PL Champions. Surely you don't expect Clark to perform better than them? Expectations. Earlier in the thread I compared Clark to Thomas Vermaelen, because both are playmaking CBs. People laughed at me. Well, Vermaelen has so far made 6 defensive errors. Arsenal would have done better defensively with Clark this season (Vermaelen is better going forward). That's not including stupid frees he has given away in dangerous areas and his great collection of yellow cards. Defenders are there too defend I don't see the need for a play making centre back surely it's up to the more advanced players to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 That's not including stupid frees he has given away in dangerous areas and his great collection of yellow cards. Defenders are there too defend I don't see the need for a play making centre back surely it's up to the more advanced players to do this. Ferdinand and Evans aren't under so much defensive pressure so you would not expect them to give away so many free kicks or accumulate yellow cards. Playmaking centre backs are important for maintaining ball possession. If your CBs are both heavy footed you won't be able to get the ball to your midfielder and forwards. This is especially important in the modern game because players are so much fitter and can chase all game. Star forwards like Wayne Rooney are expected to "defend from the front" - harass the CBs who are holding the ball, and make their job distributing possession as difficult as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Like with Bannan, eventually people will clamber aboard and say they knew all along he'd be a great player. When they do they'd say it was impossible to know before how good he'd become. They are wrong. You can tell now. You just need to adjust your expectations. I doubt you were around when this thread started & its unlikely that you have bothered to read from the start. I dont want to speak out of turn here but I think that a great deal posters were quite excited by Clark & convinced he would become a very good player. However the last two seasons have shown that this may not be the case and I believe some may have changed their mind. Clark has little strength, his positional sense is often poor, he'll often dive in, he'll often run out of defence far too eagerly, he is incredibly slow and he seems not to be able to judge the flight of the ball very well. Does he have a nice touch? Possibly. Is he technically gifted? Maybe. But unfortunately these are not enough when all his other attributes are so poor. I'm guessing over the last two years our win ratio is very poor with him in the side & like Bannan I struggle to remember many times, even a handful, where I can say yeah he was outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folski Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 That's not including stupid frees he has given away in dangerous areas and his great collection of yellow cards. Defenders are there too defend I don't see the need for a play making centre back surely it's up to the more advanced players to do this. Ferdinand and Evans aren't under so much defensive pressure so you would not expect them to give away so many free kicks or accumulate yellow cards. Playmaking centre backs are important for maintaining ball possession. If your CBs are both heavy footed you won't be able to get the ball to your midfielder and forwards. This is especially important in the modern game because players are so much fitter and can chase all game. Star forwards like Wayne Rooney are expected to "defend from the front" - harass the CBs who are holding the ball, and make their job distributing possession as difficult as possible. I understand you're going to give away fouls, how ever Clark has the 2nd most in the team with 32, only behind Benteke, who's fouls do not hurt us as much as they are 60 yards further up the field. Vlaar has given away 7 fouls in 20 games, compared to Clark's 32 in 28 games, that's quiet a difference. I'm ok with him fouling, it's just I find the majority of his fouls are needless, and have cost us (Everton). Onto your next point, all Premier League football players should be able to control a pass and kick it sideways, that hardly quantifies as being a play making centre back. Surely David Luiz is the closest thing, but again he has be woeful at time defensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Collectively a defender can make mistakes as long as you have someone playing with you to mop up. Or heroic dick splashes like Steven Gerrard to head off the line. None of our defenders are good enough to account for their own mistakes let alone anticipate anyone elses. The most frustrating sight this season apart from uncontested headers flying in is when you see a goal scored from inside the box where there are literally 6 Villa players all sprawling all over the place as they try and fail to block the pea roller goal effort that always goes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I don't think he's any good I'm afraid, I don't think he'll cut it here, I take no pleasure in saying that. In my time I've been pretty good, better than most, at predicting these things, I've said it for a long time about Clark and I've not been convinced otherwise. So... I'm going to follow my instincts on this one. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not too worried if I'm not because in my mind I think we've got a far far better prospect in Baker - he has a big future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I don't think he's any good I'm afraid, I don't think he'll cut it here, I take no pleasure in saying that. In my time I've been pretty good, better than most, at predicting these things, I've said it for a long time about Clark and I've not been convinced otherwise. So... I'm going to follow my instincts on this one. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not too worried if I'm not because in my mind I think we've got a far far better prospect in Baker - he has a big future. You say that but... 23 year old, without an experienced sidekick for at least half matches he's played, making fewer defensive errors than experienced defenders like Thomas Vermaelen and Martin Skrtel? You think Clark has no talent? He's made the same number of defensive errors as much more experienced William Gallas, James Collins, Gareth McAuley, Ashley Williams, John O'Shea and Phillipe Senderos - and you want to throw this 23 year old CB on the scrapheap before he's gained proper experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I think you rely on stats too much. I remember people trying to convince me Ridgewell was good, he reminds me of Clark in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 How's Ridgwell doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I'd say he was a poor left back at a mid table club, how would you say he was doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Not in a relegation fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Ridgewell has settled down well in a top half of the Premier League side. He's even won a cup. Nice career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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