Global Warming

[Captain_Townsend]

And still gobshites deny climate change. We are an odd species. 

[LondonLax]

3 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said:

And still gobshites deny climate change. We are an odd species. 

Denial is a lot more comforting than facing difficult truths. There was a lot of similar behaviour on display during the pandemic. 

[CVByrne]

17 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said:

And still gobshites deny climate change. We are an odd species. 

78% of the EU population are concerned about Climate Change. Can we stop caring about climate deniers we won't convince everyone and we don't need to. I'm sick of this view that the Climate Change problem we face is a problem of people who don't believe in it. 

 

Quote

Europeans are more concerned about climate change than people in the USA and China (eib.org)

Europeans are more concerned about climate change than people in the USA and China

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by CVByrne

[picicata]

17 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

78% of the EU population are concerned about Climate Change. Can we stop caring about climate deniers we won't convince everyone and we don't need to. I'm sick of this view that the Climate Change problem we face is a problem of people who don't believe in it. 

 

 

Yeah, the problem isn't those that deny it but those that acknowledge it but are unwilling to change anything in the personal lives in order to do something about it

[CVByrne]

10 minutes ago, picicata said:

Yeah, the problem isn't those that deny it but those that acknowledge it but are unwilling to change anything in the personal lives in order to do something about it

What do you think people need to do in their personal lives exactly? This is a complex global issue that needs governments and scientific breakthroughs to solve.

[Genie]

I’m so grateful the UK has avoided extreme weather so far this year but it’s only a matter of time.

[picicata]

1 minute ago, CVByrne said:

What do you think people need to do in their personal lives exactly? This is a complex global issue that needs governments and scientific breakthroughs to solve.

Yes, but governments and science are only driven by people putting pressure on them to change direction, without that they will do what ever is cheapest and easiest

 

[CVByrne]

3 minutes ago, picicata said:

Yes, but governments and science are only driven by people putting pressure on them to change direction, without that they will do what ever is cheapest and easiest

But individual people can't change how green our energy on any realistic level beyond solar panels on your home. Governments need to drive the tansition to green energy at national levels (and in Europe we're doing that). 78% of Europeans are concerned about climate change so that means it'll be a key issue for all our Governments to solve.

Can you give me some examples of things you think individual people should be doing?

[sidcow]

16 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

What do you think people need to do in their personal lives exactly? This is a complex global issue that needs governments and scientific breakthroughs to solve.

As the lady in one of the podcasts I posted earlier said, you may only think that your contribution is a drop in the ocean, but an ocean is made of drops. 

People can walk more instead of driving, use public transport or bicycle more, stop using as much electricity or heating, eat less meat, buy less online, fly less, swap the car for electric, get a home battery that charges at low power use times when the grid is powered more by renewables, get solar panels, swap the gas boiler or oil boiler for a heat pump, stop letting off fireworks or having bonfires and dozens of other things. 

There isn't a person on the planet who can change their habit on at least some of these things to a greater or lesser extent. Each little change is that drop in the ocean. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by sidcow

[sne]

21 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

What do you think people need to do in their personal lives exactly? This is a complex global issue that needs governments and scientific breakthroughs to solve.

Consume less.

[picicata]

Just now, CVByrne said:

But individual people can't change how green our energy on any realistic level beyond solar panels on your home. Governments need to drive the tansition to green energy at national levels (and in Europe we're doing that). 78% of Europeans are concerned about climate change so that means it'll be a key issue for all our Governments to solve.

Can you give me some examples of things you think individual people should be doing?

Easy. Massively cut down on their meat consumption. People eat way too much meat, for both their own health and the health of the planet. 

Would this be enough on its own to solve the issues facing the planet? No, but making changes as individuals puts pressure on governments to follow suit which then puts pressure on science to come up with alternatives more in keeping with current thinking. It can change the whole out look of the political landscape.

If individuals look like they don't care and are unwilling to put in the hard yards then governments will simply push the problems down the line

[CVByrne]

5 minutes ago, sidcow said:

As the lady in one of the podcasts I posted earlier said, you may only think that your contribution is a drop in the ocean, but an ocean is made of drops. 

People can walk more instead of driving, use public transport or bicycle more, stop using as much electricity or heating, eat less meat, buy less online, fly less, swap the car for electric, get a home battery that charges at low power use times when the grid is powered more by renewables, get solar panels, swap the gas boiler or oil boiler for a heat pump, stop letting off fireworks or having bonfires and dozens of other things. 

There isn't a person on the planet who can change their habit on at least some of these things to a greater or lesser extent. Each little change is that drop in the ocean. 

So a mix of things there.

Some good advice for everyone like walking or using public transport more. I've never owned a car and have always walked mainly to get from a to b or use public transport. Don't be as wasteful with your energy consumption, so turning off lights, not filling a kettle too much to make a cup of tea. All very good sensible advice.

Then there's choices with consequences, eating less meat harms farmers livelihoods, "spending less" (buying less or flying less) also would impact peoples jobs and the economy (people spending less is what causes recessions). 

Then there's costly upfront changes you can make (getting a new electric car, home battery, switching a heating system from gas) which are good to do. 

[CVByrne]

9 minutes ago, sne said:

Consume less.

Ok, so if we all do that, everyone spending less and cause a recession. Then millions of people lose their jobs. You can see why this is such a globally complex issue for us to solve. 

[sne]

Just now, CVByrne said:

Ok, so if we all do that, everyone spending less and cause a recession. Then millions of people lose their jobs. You can see why this is such a globally complex issue for us to solve. 

Of course it is, but there is never going to be even a partial solution that doesn't cause inconvenience and adjustments for individuals, corporations and governments. But it has to start with people adjusting their behaviors.

[sidcow]

1 minute ago, CVByrne said:

So a mix of things there.

Some good advice for everyone like walking or using public transport more. I've never owned a car and have always walked mainly to get from a to b or use public transport. Don't be as wasteful with your energy consumption, so turning off lights, not filling a kettle too much to make a cup of tea. All very good sensible advice.

Then there's choices with consequences, eating less meat harms farmers livelihoods, "spending less" (buying less or flying less) also would impact peoples jobs and the economy (people spending less is what causes recessions). 

Then there's costly upfront changes you can make (getting a new electric car, home battery, switching a heating system from gas) which are good to do. 

Of crap. Filling the kettle up. I have to repeatedly remind Mrs Sidcow about this. She always fills it up to the top to make 1 or 2 frigging cups of coffee. The amount of energy this pisses away is staggering. 

She also never ever turns off the telly. I'll often wander into the living room and the telly is on whilst she's out in the garden. 

Leaving lights on. Yes I've turned into my dad. 

The other one with Mrs Sidcow is having windows open whilst the heating is pumping out "because she likes fresh air" 

Well yes, so do I but meanwhile the gas boiler is throwing CO2 into the atmosphere for no real reason. Go sit in the frigging garden in a coat if you crave fresh air so badly. 

All little individual decisions that have real world climate change consequences. Multiplied by 66m people in this country. 

[picicata]

7 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

So a mix of things there.

Some good advice for everyone like walking or using public transport more. I've never owned a car and have always walked mainly to get from a to b or use public transport. Don't be as wasteful with your energy consumption, so turning off lights, not filling a kettle too much to make a cup of tea. All very good sensible advice.

Then there's choices with consequences, eating less meat harms farmers livelihoods, "spending less" (buying less or flying less) also would impact peoples jobs and the economy (people spending less is what causes recessions). 

Then there's costly upfront changes you can make (getting a new electric car, home battery, switching a heating system from gas) which are good to do. 

That is what I mean by 'putting in the hard yards'. It's making those choices that you know will benefit others in the long run even though it may hurt in the short. Hopefully, you have a socially conscious government that helps the worst affected so that those changes can be made

It's the difference between doing what's easy and what's right

[sidcow]

4 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Ok, so if we all do that, everyone spending less and cause a recession. Then millions of people lose their jobs. You can see why this is such a globally complex issue for us to solve. 

Farmers can grow crops instead of grazing sheep or cows. It's a much better use of land. If there is more demand for cereal crops or legumes because people are eating more of them prices for those crops rise. If people eat less meat then farmers earn less from meat. 

A field full of crops absorbs CO2.. A field full of animals expels CO2. 

I will say this is one sacrifice I'm not willing to make though I don't actually eat that much meat anyway.  I do eat it but in small portions. I've been experimenting with plant based alternatives but I just don't think they are there yet. 

[sidcow]

16 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Ok, so if we all do that, everyone spending less and cause a recession. Then millions of people lose their jobs. You can see why this is such a globally complex issue for us to solve. 

In fact think of all the jobs now created in things like plant based meat alternatives. Whole companies like Beyond Meat have sprung up. Big corporations have created new divisions to cater for changing attitudes. Supermarkets now have a Vegan section that presumably was previously taken up by meat products. 

It's not that economic activity ceases - people are still eating.   The Farmer swaps the use of his land from meat to plant. The guy in the meat packing plant now works at the plant based alternative packing plant etc.

And it's not a total cessation. Just a bit less, you're not going to see every butchers shop in the country disappear, but maybe there wil be a few less, but then a few more greengrocers take their place. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by sidcow

[picicata]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

I will say this is one sacrifice I'm not willing to make though I don't actually eat that much meat anyway.  I do eat it but in small portions. I've been experimenting with plant based alternatives but I just don't think they are there yet. 

Yep, meat alternatives are probably not yet at a point where it could replace meat for those who don't want to go veg/ vegan but want to do more to help the environment. However, the more people choosing to go sans meat, at least in part, the more money, scientific endeavour and research will go into producing alternatives. Even in the last few years it has become much better. Personally, I don't eat many of the meat alternatives as they are so processed.

I managed to convince two of my friends to drop their meat eating in half by suggesting they spend the same amount of money on half the amount of meat, this buying higher quality and less processed crap. It's a step

[bobzy]

14 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Farmers can grow crops instead of grazing sheep or cows. It's a much better use of land. If there is more demand for cereal crops or legumes because people are eating more of them prices for those crops rise. If people eat less meat then farmers earn less from meat. 

A field full of crops absorbs CO2.. A field full of animals expels CO2. 

I will say this is one sacrifice I'm not willing to make though I don't actually eat that much meat anyway.  I do eat it but in small portions. I've been experimenting with plant based alternatives but I just don't think they are there yet. 

I don’t understand why people need an alternative, as such. Just eat the vegetables?  You don’t need peas to have the texture of chicken.