Bolitics The New Condem Government

[snowychap]

My original point is for people such as myself hearing the constant complaining loses its effect and when every small thing is picked up on it becomes a bit "boy who cried wolf" and you get sick of hearing it.

Is that really the case?

I have my doubts that it has affected your stance on these matters much because your angle doesn't seem to be that far away from your 2010/11 comments in this thread, the economy thread and the election thread.

[MakemineVanilla]

I actually agree, with your general point that is as I'm not sure 50k people visiting a pensioner would do much good especially for the poor pensioner.

 

But demo's and marches are fairly pointless in my view but I'm still waiting for the no more demo's march with my pen in hand ready to sign up.

I don't agree that demos and marches are a waste of time; they are just one of several channels and mechanisms in a democracy for expressing dissent and dissipating internal tensions.

 

I don't think people who participate are under any delusions that they will change the government's mind but there is a lot of satisfaction in turning up, and feeling like a grown-up citizen.

 

There is something really satisfying in being with a crowd of people who share your sentiments.

 

Then of course, you have the satisfaction, of knowing, that when the PM is bombing civilians or persecuting your local wheelchair jockey, that you are morally above reproach.

 

And there is a lot to be said for that. 

[andyjsg]

My quote about "comerade" was specifically a to living in a country without big business, i.e. a view of what life would be like if you kicked them out etc. - was in context fella.

 

I do consider many people in society "leeches" at both ends of the political spectrum, at both ends there are plenty of people who leech off society wether they are politicians, bankers, union leaders or benefit abusers.

 

Maybe I have grouped you in with others as it was you who has responded to the original point I made about why the BBC didnt report on Austerity March, etc etc etc

[andyjsg]

 

My original point is for people such as myself hearing the constant complaining loses its effect and when every small thing is picked up on it becomes a bit "boy who cried wolf" and you get sick of hearing it.

Is that really the case?

I have my doubts that it has affected your stance on these matters much because your angle doesn't seem to be that far away from your 2010/11 comments in this thread, the economy thread and the election thread.

 

Yes it really is. Im not sure back then when I was a smoker/drinker would be so anti-smoking/drinking than I am now either.

 

I dont very much like the way the Tories have started taking up "Republican" style policies with the "rise" of UKIP etc, I really dont. I liked the Call Me Dave/Big Society stuff and now, well its seemed to have all gone down the toilet so now it would be a case of either not voting at all or voting to stop others getting in. Either way Ive never been keen on people just complaining all the time without having a credible/realisitc solution or to offer something themselves.

[andyjsg]

 

 

I actually agree, with your general point that is as I'm not sure 50k people visiting a pensioner would do much good especially for the poor pensioner.

 

But demo's and marches are fairly pointless in my view but I'm still waiting for the no more demo's march with my pen in hand ready to sign up.

 

Yet you condem me for saying its pointless and a waste of money - nice hypocrisy

 

 

No... you are just making things up now. If you had said that I wouldn't have disagreed with you but what you posted appeared to be saying people shouldn't be allowed to protest which is a very different thing. It isn't my fault you weren't clear in your original post.

 

Again, not sure where I have ever said people shouldnt be allowed to protest, I just dont like the government spending any money on it and that people should be capable of walking down the street and holding plackards without breaking stuff - sadly they are not. i thought it was pretty clear.

[snowychap]

Either way Ive never been keen on people just complaining all the time without having a credible/realisitc solution or to offer something themselves.

They are only 'just complaining all the time' if you don't view their opinions/solutions as credible/realistic.

Your argument is a clodhopping and circular one.

Your posting history on VT would suggest that you would have had as much sympathy (i.e. sod all) with the people marching whether they had done it in June 2011 as opposed to June 2014.

[andyjsg]

Either way Ive never been keen on people just complaining all the time without having a credible/realisitc solution or to offer something themselves.

They are only 'just complaining all the time' if you don't view their opinions/solutions as credible/realistic.

Your argument is a clodhopping and circular one.

Your posting history on VT would suggest that you would have had as much sympathy (i.e. sod all) with the people marching whether they had done it in June 2011 as opposed to June 2014.

Correct, I think it's pointless and is a waste of resources but a bit like religion, people should be allowed to do it wether I think its dumb or not.

[Risso]

Now if 50,000 people visited a pensioner for the day, or something like that I reckon the Beeb would be all over it

 

How would they all fit in the pensioner's house?

[andyjsg]

Do you not think the money could be better spent on something else like jobs in the NHS etc? Could the time and money of those involved not been better spent on charity work or even just putting money back into the economy to create more jobs?

People are aware that "some" in society believe there are too many cuts etc, I'm not sure repeating the same thing over and over and over again helps particularly.

My reaction wasn't specifically to the march as it was to the same person and I mean the same person just posting one thing after another as a sort of party political broadcast. I think for this to be credible you have to at least open debate on some of these subjects rather than just posting headlines from left leaning media. It would be the same as someone just posting story after story from the mail about immigrants, it just becomes the teacher from peanuts after a while.

[snowychap]

Correct, I think it's pointless and is a waste of resources but a bit like religion, people should be allowed to do it wether I think its dumb or not.

So it really is the case that the constant complaining loses its effect upon you even though the effect of the initial complaining was/would have been precisely the same?

I think that's me done with this as you are making no sense.

 

...or even just putting money back into the economy to create more jobs...

That's up there with the paying down debt gives us more money to spend idea.

[Jon]

Now if 50,000 people visited a pensioner for the day, or something like that I reckon the Beeb would be all over it

How would they all fit in the pensioner's house?

Buckingham palace

[bickster]

Do you not think the money could be better spent on something else like jobs in the NHS etc?

What money could be better spent on the NHS? A few policemen on overtime making sure that people exorcising their democratic right behave themselves is not going to solve the problems of the NHS.

Your arguments are illogical, I pity you if that really is your thought process

[MakemineVanilla]

 

Do you not think the money could be better spent on something else like jobs in the NHS etc?

What money could be better spent on the NHS? A few policemen on overtime making sure that people exorcising their democratic right behave themselves is not going to solve the problems of the NHS.

Your arguments are illogical, I pity you if that really is your thought process

 

 

If only you had meant the typo.  

[bickster]

I coulda spelt democratic as demonic on this phone too

[Kingfisher]

BBC would have been down there like a shot if the police had provoked a minor scuffle, with the headline 'rioting breaks out in London'. Running the same scuffle on loop for 2 days.

It was very well organised, and everybody behaved brilliantly by all accounts. Well done to all that made it there and all who spoke. The real story is the 50,000 ordinary folk getting together in harmony to give the government a message, and how the media have ignored it.

The peoples assembly's 50k isn't even as much as the 200k that unison can gather. The feeling out there is growing and the media cannot ignore us forever.

[ender4]

i like people who protest - at least they have strong convictions and want to have their voice heard.

 

myself - i'm a bit too lazy (or maybe not with strong enough views).

[chrisp65]

i like people who protest - at least they have strong convictions and want to have their voice heard.

 

myself - i'm a bit too lazy (or maybe not with strong enough views).

 

all for the occasional bit of agitation, keep 'them' on their toes

[snowychap]

I bet half of them were the usual soap-dodging protesters who havent done a days work in their lifes.

Of course they were. Even if half of them were, it would necessarily mean that half of them weren't but you can feel happy in writing them all off with the prejudice in your post.

[Kingfisher]

May was the hottest on earth since records began. We know temperature and CO2 levels are linked. We know a warmer atmosphere has more energy, we know an atmosphere with more energy leads to more extreme weather events. We know extreme weather events kill in poor countries and cause heavy disruption in rich countries.

So why has Cameron backed CO2 producing fracking? Why has Cameron reduced insulation grants? The solutions aren't easy, the right thing to do isn't easy - this government are failing on both counts.

[Eames]

^^ because the "right" thing to do is expensive, inefficient, unwanted by vast swathes of the population who have to live near them all of whom vote Conservative. Stuff underground is far easier to sell to the electorate than a dirty great windmill or a field full of shiny PV cells.

 

The Green ideal is a very noble one, but it won't keep the lights on in 50 years time and so other alternatives need to be explored. There should absolutely be an increase in "green" energy but it is not the only answer and not solely a failing of THIS government.