colhint Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Ha ha, I think he has foot in mouth not foot and mouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Yeah but what about the foot and mouth crisis? You mean they haven't cured us of George Osborne yet? Wrong disease. That was BSE giddy on the legs I'll get my coat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post snowychap Posted June 2, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted June 2, 2014 ...5 years of the repair process...Oh, jeez. Not this cobblers again about Tories 'repairing' things. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Our energy bills remain fixed even though the wholesale prices have tumbled doubling energy companies profits according to ofgen, the times is reporting this morning. The way these private energy companies behave is a disgrace. Another Tory failure, who do they work for, us? or big business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) Doesn't the UK's average energy price compare favourably with the rest of Europe? Edited June 3, 2014 by Xela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Our energy bills remain fixed even though the wholesale prices have tumbled doubling energy companies profits according to ofgen, the times is reporting this morning.I'd be interested to see The Times's workings (this doesn't mean that I don't think there aren't big problems with energy 'markets' but some of the very simplistic analysis doesn't really help the argument). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Doesn't the UK's average energy price compare favourably with the rest of Europe?It's complex, but I think the problem in the UK is with the difference between wholesale price and the price we pay. We have relatively low taxes on energy, but our prices are still quite high. The winners seem to be the private pockets of the energy firms. In Germany prices are high because of the tax, so the government get a much bigger slice, which is then reinvested into renewable schemes. I can't help but get this nagging feeling that they're doing it the right way. But the energy markets, the future of energy, and the complexity of supply seems mind boggling. I think a federal EU needs to work closely on this, I don't think the right wing free market, law of economics will solve this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Doesn't the UK's average energy price compare favourably with the rest of Europe?It's complex, but I think the problem in the UK is with the difference between wholesale price and the price we pay. We have relatively low taxes on energy, but our prices are still quite high. The winners seem to be the private pockets of the energy firms.That's the 'perceived' problem - it doesn't have a great deal to do with the actual problem. There isn't much correlation beteween the 'wholesale' price for gas on any particular day and what is charged to the retail customer, nor should there be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfisher Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Doesn't the UK's average energy price compare favourably with the rest of Europe?It's complex, but I think the problem in the UK is with the difference between wholesale price and the price we pay. We have relatively low taxes on energy, but our prices are still quite high. The winners seem to be the private pockets of the energy firms.That's the 'perceived' problem - it doesn't have a great deal to do with the actual problem. There isn't much correlation beteween the 'wholesale' price for gas on any particular day and what is charged to the retail customer, nor should there be.What is the actual problem, and in your opinion, what would be the best course of action to ensure energy needs are met, in the short and medium term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 (edited) What is the actual problem, and in your opinion, what would be the best course of action to ensure energy needs are met, in the short and medium term?I don't think there is a single problem - there would appear to be a number (I may have worded my comment badly as it was meant to be a criticism of the rather tired stuff about wholesale prices and the price residential customers pay or rather that the decreases in the former don't go hand in hand with corresponding decreases in the latter).A few problems as I see them?In connection with the wholesale/residential prices, there needs to be much more transparency in terms of the product costs involved for each supplier (and thus how much influence the wholesale market ought to have on the price for their end user).We ought to disavow ourselves of the silly notion that just introducing more suppliers will increase competitiveness and thus reduce prices/give a better deal for consumers. It may do in the short term (though the barriers to entry often make this rather difficult) but what the energy supply 'market' tends towards is what we have now, i.e. a number of large suppliers fighting over almost all of the customers and a few smaller firms picking up scraps around the edges. How many suppliers did we have in 1998-2001? We need to either look at renationalization (which, frankly, isn't going to happen, is it?) or going back to a much firmer hand of regulation.Also, we probably need to think about our overall consumption and what that may mean for this whole 'energy security' question.I think that I would like to see something in place whereby prices ratchet up with excess demand by consumers (over and above some standard usage).We seem to be in a place where energy is marginally cheaper the more one consumes of it (made more so by the government's/Ofgem's proposals about tariff simplification - or at least how energy companies have chosen to implement this by way of standing charges across the board) and I don't think that's good at all.Edit: These aren't manifesto proposals rather thinking out loud. Edited June 5, 2014 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Whilst it's cheaper to pay for more energy than invest in insulation and energy efficiency we will not change. Whilst our energy is generated in nuclear facilities beyond their use by date and foreign gas and oil supplies from Russia and the middle east we are at risk. We've all seen that middle east countries can be volatile. We've all seen that Russia can simply turn off the supply valve. But we burn through fuel anyway, because right now, today, that's cheaper and easier than paying out more money to be less reliant on risky energy in the future. Couple all that above with the fact that we must not 'blight' our falsely created poly tunnel covered countryside with wind farms or solar farms and we cannot use public money to refine heat pump technology and we are left with fracking under other people's houses. Well, with the best will in the world, that isn't really going to happen. Would a tory lead government survive the first by election after houses in the home counties were drilled under? Nope. Would they survive fracking up the pretty bits of the north? Nope. Somebody somewhere eventually needs to inform and educate the public that energy is expensive. in cash, in risk or in bluebells and dicky birds, energy is expensive. The production of sufficient energy is vital, at least as vital as the military. We wouldn't sell the military to Russia and China. But the power to operate the military, yeah I can't see any problem with making that Russian and Chinese. What could possibly go wrong. Nationalise power production. That is my manifesto proposal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 On other matters: Secret trials: judges should be trusted to make right decisions, says Grayling The justice secretary, Chris Grayling, has said judges should be trusted to make the right decisions in secret trials, after it emerged a major criminal case involving two terror suspects could be heard behind closed doors for the first time in modern history. The senior Conservative said the default in the court system should be transparency but there were instances where it was right to hold hearings in secret. He said this case was a matter for the courts but common and statutory law did allow some rare cases in which trials could be heard in private. Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, he said: "We do entrust them with many parts of our national life … I believe passionately in the freedom of the press and I believe the circumstances in which the press do not have access to the trial process should be very, very rare indeed. "But in this particular case, if there is a really good reason, if it is in the interests of justice for the judge to take a decision one way or the other, so be it, that's why we have them. That's why we trust the judges, that's why we have them, to take the right decisions of behalf of all of us." Lawyers contesting the decision at the court of appeal on Wednesday said the plan amounted to "an unprecedented departure from the principles of open justice" and was inconsistent with democracy and the rule of law. Until now it has not even been possible to report the existence of the forthcoming trial against the two men, known only as AB and CD. But three appeal court judges lifted a gagging order allowing reporting of a hearing challenging the plans. The trial would be the first criminal case to be held behind closed doors for hundreds of years. It involves two defendants who are charged with terrorism but whose names are being withheld from the public. Unless the appeal succeeds, journalists will be banned from being present in court to report the proceedings on 16 June or the outcome of the trial. The men will be tried by a jury but no report of the case will be made public and no members of the media or public will be given access to the court. Shami Chakrabati, the director of Liberty, condemned the secrecy. She said: "Transparency isn't an optional luxury in the justice system – it's key to ensuring fairness and protecting the rule of law. "This case is a worrying high water mark for secrecy in our courts – extensive restrictions set without robust reasons or a time limit. There must be clearer explanations before the door is shut on press and public." The Guardian and other media organisations made a last-ditch challenge to the secrecy surrounding the terror trial at the court of appeal. Anthony Hudson, representing the media, said the decision to withhold the identities of the men and carry out the entire proceedings in private was a legal departure. The court was told that the crown has sought and obtained legal orders on the grounds of national security, arguing that if the trial were held in public the prosecution might not proceed with the case. Mari Reid, unit head of the counter-terrorism team in the special crime and counter-terrorism division of the Crown Prosecution Service, gave evidence during the crown application that there was a "serious possibility that the trial may not be able to go ahead" if it had to be held in public. ...more on link I really hope that the underlined bit isn't correct. p.s. Depending upon which rag you read this in, substitute for 'The Guardian' The Mail, The Telegraph, &c.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Obviously the wholesale price of fuels is adversely affected by factors such as conflict in the Gulf region. What also doesn't help is the energy companies deliberately strangling supply to keep prices high. They simply stop tankers offshore, driving up demand and price, then bleat about wholesale prices being high. These people are scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 On other matters: Secret trials: judges should be trusted to make right decisions, says Grayling The justice secretary, Chris Grayling, has said judges should be trusted to make the right decisions in secret trials, after it emerged a major criminal case involving two terror suspects could be heard behind closed doors for the first time in modern history. The senior Conservative said the default in the court system should be transparency but there were instances where it was right to hold hearings in secret. He said this case was a matter for the courts but common and statutory law did allow some rare cases in which trials could be heard in private. Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, he said: "We do entrust them with many parts of our national life … I believe passionately in the freedom of the press and I believe the circumstances in which the press do not have access to the trial process should be very, very rare indeed. "But in this particular case, if there is a really good reason, if it is in the interests of justice for the judge to take a decision one way or the other, so be it, that's why we have them. That's why we trust the judges, that's why we have them, to take the right decisions of behalf of all of us." Lawyers contesting the decision at the court of appeal on Wednesday said the plan amounted to "an unprecedented departure from the principles of open justice" and was inconsistent with democracy and the rule of law. Until now it has not even been possible to report the existence of the forthcoming trial against the two men, known only as AB and CD. But three appeal court judges lifted a gagging order allowing reporting of a hearing challenging the plans. The trial would be the first criminal case to be held behind closed doors for hundreds of years. It involves two defendants who are charged with terrorism but whose names are being withheld from the public. Unless the appeal succeeds, journalists will be banned from being present in court to report the proceedings on 16 June or the outcome of the trial. The men will be tried by a jury but no report of the case will be made public and no members of the media or public will be given access to the court. Shami Chakrabati, the director of Liberty, condemned the secrecy. She said: "Transparency isn't an optional luxury in the justice system – it's key to ensuring fairness and protecting the rule of law. "This case is a worrying high water mark for secrecy in our courts – extensive restrictions set without robust reasons or a time limit. There must be clearer explanations before the door is shut on press and public." The Guardian and other media organisations made a last-ditch challenge to the secrecy surrounding the terror trial at the court of appeal. Anthony Hudson, representing the media, said the decision to withhold the identities of the men and carry out the entire proceedings in private was a legal departure. The court was told that the crown has sought and obtained legal orders on the grounds of national security, arguing that if the trial were held in public the prosecution might not proceed with the case. Mari Reid, unit head of the counter-terrorism team in the special crime and counter-terrorism division of the Crown Prosecution Service, gave evidence during the crown application that there was a "serious possibility that the trial may not be able to go ahead" if it had to be held in public. ...more on link I really hope that the underlined bit isn't correct. p.s. Depending upon which rag you read this in, substitute for 'The Guardian' The Mail, The Telegraph, &c.. a very worrying development. and surely also completely unneccessary? Why the need for secret trials. What is being hidden, and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What is being hidden, and why?We don't know.Indeed it would appear that we are fortunate to even know that there is going to be a trial going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 The government's plan to compel supermarkets to charge 5p (and rising) for a carrier-bag seems likely to be as irrational in its implementation as it was in its conception. No doubt they will take their guidance for how to apply it from the likes of M&S, who charge customers who buy food, which the government consider a necessity, but don't charge customers who buy a set of frillies, which the government class as a luxury. I expect Cameron and his cronies will claim that it proves they care about the environment, while hoping that we fail to notice their policy of handing out planning permission for every out-of-town supermarket, which leads to a massive increase in food-miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Bring in American style paper bags! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Bring in American style paper bags! Or get Posh and Becks to make shopping trolleys look cool! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Have a Woolworths bag somewhere. Probably be worth £1 Million one day.... maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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