Bolitics The New Condem Government

[blandy]

You're not going to like this, but the rules of the EU allow Google, Starbucks et al to pay their taxes in whichever jurisdiction within the union that they choose to.  Our government is powerless to do anything about that, but you can vote UKIP and be the change you want to see.

That's absolute bollex, AWOL. It's nothing to do with EU rules. The problem is there aren't any pan national controls on that sort of behaviour. Either EU or any other trade bloc area. The Americans have the same problem, for example.

Neither national nor trade area associations/EU have done anything tangible to stop it. Countries act alone to lower the taxes companies pay in their jurisdiction, and actually encourage it. Luxembourg, Ireland etc. drop their tax rates to attract these co.s and they end up taking a small amount of something, rather than somewhere the companies are actually trading getting a fairer share.

It's something that the EU could help resolve. Gov't acting alone can't, because if say the UK made a law, the company would move to Lux, or Ireland. if the EU makes a law, it's much harder for them to move and still trade. These tax havens and low tax places need to be closed down.

[blandy]

Not a single chance of this, Murdoch is still very firmly in Dave's corner as the pre election coverage by the Times illustrates - the Farage expenses scandal that never was, etc. Christ, even the Tories and the Guardian got into bed with CCHQ feeding anything they could dig up on UKIP supporters or candidates directly to that rag in exchange for a steady stream of anti-UKIP stories. One of the editors of the BBC election coverage team was removed from her role for posting anti-UKIP tweets, somewhat betraying the lie that the state funded broadcaster is officially free of political bias. The scale of collusion was frankly astonishing and more than a little bit sinister for democracy, imo.   

 

That the media and political establishment were prepared to club together in this way pre-election (in a manner that some commentators called unprecedented) points to one thing:  were UKIP to make serious headway at the Westminster level it would be disastrous for all kinds of vested interests, and the media are no more immune to that cosy elitism than Dave or Ed.  They didn't succeed this time around and will learn the lessons of that failure to refine attack strategies against UKIP for the GE next year.

 

Murdoch's papers will go with whoever will do the best for Murdoch.

A BBC employee being critical of UKIP on a twitter is not evidence that the BBC is not free of political bias. Aside from individuals (nearly) all having views of their own being totally different to an organisation's bias (or not) - I mean no one sane thinks that every BBC person should not have any political opinion, or voice it outside of their job, do they? the fact that this bod was removed from any role in election coverage tends to show how keen they are to not have any remote perception of bias.

 

UKIP getting to Westminster level would be disastrous for all kinds of vested interests, yes.... and good for others. It's the way these things work. Farage is no establishment outsider, as I've posted before. Long term MEP, private education, former City stockbroker, Dulwich College, expenses issues (unlike many other MEPs he has failed to publish how he's spent his allowances, despite promising to do so). He employs his wife - just like the rest.

 

He's caught a mood, played on it, and is chasing a dream, funded by one of the richest people in the country. Meh.

[bickster]

Not quite accurate Peter, UKIP is and has for some time been the only party that bans former members of the BNP from even joining them, let alone standing for their party.

But presumably former members of the NF (a more overtly nazi organisation than the BNP) are ok

Farage even has a former NF organiser lined up as his agent for the next general election (Martyn Heale, current chairman of Thanet UKUP - former NF organiser un Hammersmith)

the no former BNP members in UKIP thing really only exists because of media exposure of so many, its not some stance taken out of honourable behaviour, its just a knee jerk reaction to being found out so many times, either that or he prefers former NF members

[drat01]

Already a ukip recently elected councillor has been suspended because of homophobic and racist tweets . A racist party with bigot supporters

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Yeah but Europe.

[villaajax]

Racist?! Quick, wheel out Winston McKenzie, that will prove everyone wrong!

[rendelc]

Already a ukip recently elected councillor has been suspended because of homophobic and racist tweets . A racist party with bigot supporters

 

 Generalising .   How very right wing .

[villaajax]

Its true though, isn't it?

[rendelc]

In your leftie eyes , yes.

[villaajax]

In my leftie son of an immigrant eyes

[thetrees]

Already a ukip recently elected councillor has been suspended because of homophobic and racist tweets . A racist party with bigot supporters

 Oh Ian, for an intelligent guy and sometime erudite debater, you can appear to generalise at times.

Most people that you would call 'racists' and 'bigots' are just normal people who, if engaged in normal debate, could so easily learn how moderate they really are.

But with the continuous and constant default use of the 'R' word at the slightest hint of disquiet, these people are left with no chance.

Shouting people down and jumping on them at the first opportunity is the easiest way to maintain and further create divisions in our society. Engaging with people in intelligent and sensible debate is a far better way of improving things for all.

When you cut away the cheering kids, there are plenty of sensible political debaters on this forum, and generally you are one of them.

You also rollicked me earlier for using a label, which wasn't actually mine

[8pints]

In my leftie son of an immigrant eyes

 

I think that's the title of a 50s soul song.

[bickster]

 

Already a ukip recently elected councillor has been suspended because of homophobic and racist tweets . A racist party with bigot supporters

 

 Generalising .   How very right wing .

 

 

Well Farage did want former NF candidates to stand for UKIP so what do you expect

[Kingfisher]

Whilst big corporations get away with avoiding billions in tax, benefit changes plunge millions of children into poverty.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-real-costoflivingcrisis-five-million-british-children-face-life-of-poverty-thanks-to-welfare-reforms-9442061.html

Maybe that's why my glass is half full...

I'm sure UKIP will make it all better though.

They will make it worse but Labour won't reverse what this coalition govt have done.

This is surely just the man we need to sort out the problem of tax avoidance...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/03/nigel-farage-uses-private-company-reduce-tax-bill-ukip

Green Party have had it in writing since 2010 their desire to stamp out tax avoidance. UKIP have no manifesto, but they do have a leader that likes to avoid tax.

I have just read the Green Party line from this, by Caroline Lucas. She says £16bn could be lost.

http://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/17-03-2011-tax-evasion-bill-parliament.html

Well doesn't that guardian report state that £8bn has been clawed back?

If that's the case haven't they reduced the problem by 50% in 2 years

What the article didn't say was over what period of tax avoidance that £8bn comes from. If its several years its not quite so good.

As Blandy put it, negotiations with our European partners would be the way forward. Otherwise the wealth we all work hard to create will continue to go into the pockets of the few instead of on schools and Hospitals etc.

Farage avoids tax and wants us out of Europe, so he ain't the answer. The current government have to go because half of them want a further deregulated free market European trading block, rather than a federal Europe.

[thetrees]

What a remarkable statement!

If it is several years it is very good. It means that the investigators are working from the back forward, and therefore there could be plenty more to come.

And just think of all those HMRC employees now paying 40% tax because of their big bonuses!

[Kingfisher]

What a remarkable statement!

If it is several years it is very good. It means that the investigators are working from the back forward, and therefore there could be plenty more to come.

And just think of all those HMRC employees now paying 40% tax because of their big bonuses!

You can try and paint the governments utter utter unwillingness to make big business pay their dues to society in as good a light as you like. It don't wash with me I'm afraid.

[thetrees]

What a remarkable statement!

If it is several years it is very good. It means that the investigators are working from the back forward, and therefore there could be plenty more to come.

And just think of all those HMRC employees now paying 40% tax because of their big bonuses!

You can try and paint the governments utter utter unwillingness to make big business pay their dues to society in as good a light as you like. It don't wash with me I'm afraid.

How could my pointing out the obvious error of your statement be translated into me trying to 'paint the government in a good light'?

You have moved from making remarkable statements to ridiculous statements.

[Kingfisher]

What a remarkable statement!

If it is several years it is very good. It means that the investigators are working from the back forward, and therefore there could be plenty more to come.

And just think of all those HMRC employees now paying 40% tax because of their big bonuses!

You can try and paint the governments utter utter unwillingness to make big business pay their dues to society in as good a light as you like. It don't wash with me I'm afraid.

How could my pointing out the obvious error of your statement be translated into me trying to 'paint the government in a good light'?

You have moved from making remarkable statements to ridiculous statements.

There's no error in my statement. If its £8bn of £112 billion recouped, it's pissing in the wind. It's money lost to private pockets that should be helping the sick, helping the disabled, educating, funding libraries, the list goes on. It's a nice headline grabber, but they're not serious and never will be about helping the %99 over the 1%.

[MakemineVanilla]

The thing about corporate tax, is that logically, if all things stay the same - their desire for profits etc - the only people who end up paying their tax bill are their customers.

 

So if you increase the tax on Amazon et al, they simply put their prices up and their customers, rich and poor alike, pay those taxes, which is regressive

 

This is a double-whammy for the poor customer because they not only have to pay the higher price, they also have to hand another 20% of the price rise to the government.

 

Stuff bought on Amazon, supplied from Jersey, and paid through Luxembourg, is cheaper than stuff bought in the UK, as a result.

 

It seems possible that when we seek to punish big business we might end up punishing ourselves.

 

If rich people are different from us and we fear them or even hate them, doesn't that make us guilty of xenophobia?   

Edited May 29, 2014 by MakemineVanilla

[Kingfisher]

Is that the way neo capitalism works is it? The seller dictates the price? Sounds like a broken system.

Look at this, SERCO, under investigation by the serious fraud office for stealing from us have been awarded a 15 year contract to the the Euston to Scotland sleeper service.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/serco-awarded-contract-to-run-the-famous-caledonian-sleeper-railway-line-9447845.html

Edited May 29, 2014 by Kingfisher