Bolitics The New Condem Government

[MakemineVanilla]

It seems likely that the tedious debate about UKIP has been artificially created because the difference between Conservative and Labour has been reduced to how their respective leaders eat a bacon sandwich.

 

 

 

[chrisp65]

[peterms]

Never mind this Photoshop trickery, that image is ripe for a bit of old-fashioned schoolboy graffiti, Viz-style.

[PaulC]

I honestly don't think the BBC are biased in favour of UKIP. It's funny because most UKIP supporters seem convinced that there's a media campaign against them, whereas others think the media are trying to promote them and portray them in a positive light. Which is it? Probably somewhere in between. The media just like to hype things that's all.

 

 

Certain audience members are placed so they know who to ask?

 

I'm not sure how they decide but when you apply to attend you are asked fill out a question so it has to be predetermined. I would say the BBC are anti UKIP. Nigel Farage has been on a lot because he's in the news a lot. The former respect leader Salma Yaqoob used to be on a lot too. So they do have leaders of so called minority parties on quite a lot.

[MakemineVanilla]

The NO2EU's case against Europe is interesting and quite compelling and so it does seem strange that the Left prefer to attack UKIP rather than promote NO2EU's case.

 

Here's a quote, which amazed me:

 

"The wholesale suspension of trade union collective bargaining as a condition of EU “bailouts” in Ireland, Portugal and Greece also demonstrates that trade union rights are an obstacle to EU plans for restructuring labour markets."

 

Here's the whole article:

 

http://www.no2eu.com/?page_id=570

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

I suspect the lack of coverge of NO2EU is more to do with Labour's rather efficient media machine. Go left of Labour and you're in the wilderness, basically. Also Bob Crow died, which no doubt had an effect.

 

There is no question that the EU is a problem as it is run by Big Finance and is pretty much unaccountable. It goes against a lot of what I stand for, but I still wouldn't leave it, because I've more trust in fellow Europeans to achieve change than in the elitist Lords and Earls and their public schoolboys (and I emphasise boys) running the country for the benefit of their own class.

 

The mechanisms to achieve that change need to be put in place, admittedly. Hence staying put and sorting out the EU.

[villaajax]

It seems likely that the tedious debate about UKIP has been artificially created because the difference between Conservative and Labour has been reduced to how their respective leaders eat a bacon sandwich.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately that's the age we live in. "Oh no, look how he eats that sandwich, we can't vote for him". This story seems to be almost as big as the elections themselves.

[MakemineVanilla]

 

It seems likely that the tedious debate about UKIP has been artificially created because the difference between Conservative and Labour has been reduced to how their respective leaders eat a bacon sandwich.

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately that's the age we live in. "Oh no, look how he eats that sandwich, we can't vote for him". This story seems to be almost as big as the elections themselves.

 

 

Years ago I couldn't grasp the fact that, what the PM wore on a ceremonial occasion, mattered to people.

 

I couldn't believe that people were that shallow and that stupid but I was wrong.

 

The fact that that photo was in The Independent, which is marketed at a so-called elite, says everything.

 

H. L. Mencken's famous quote about no one losing money by underestimating the intelligence of the people, gets truer by the day. 

[blandy]

The fact that that photo was in The Independent, which is marketed at a so-called elite, says everything.

I don't think it says much at all, other than that the i / Independent like all websites (it wasn't in the paper, I don't think - I didn't see it in the actual paper version of the Independent) chase hits for revenue.

 

I don't think the Independent is "marketed at a so-called elite" either. It's not really marketed at all, but what there is tends to be about it putting various sides of a debate/discussion/story, rather than being driven by proprietorial bias. In that it mostly succeeds. The i seems to be marketed on the basis that it's a a kind of concise version of the Indie, for a much lower price.

 

The Independent has Farage as a columnist, had Dominic Lawson (raving Tory, climate change denier, and son of former chancellor) as a columnist and also has left wing people as columnists (Mark Steel, Owen Jones till recently). it's good on financial and economic analysis.

It's less "preachy" than the Guardian, but does have a left of centre feel about some of its editorial stuff but it doesn't support any particular party.

The cricket and football writers are good.

[chrisp65]

yep, pretty much spot on Blandy.

 

I've recently switched to the Guardian as it's free in Waitrose (could I be more middle class?). But it's just not the same, it's a bit limp and apologetic. Enjoyed yesterday's article by Will Self on Rod Liddle. Then remembered I liked Self when he wrote for the Independent.

[Awol]

The mechanisms to achieve that change need to be put in place, admittedly. Hence staying put and sorting out the EU.

If the EU was built to be democratic and each ratchet towards federalisation had the consent of the EU publics then I would agree. In principle greater European cooperation is a no brainer, but that isn't what is on offer and short of tearing the whole thing down and starting from scratch it never will be.

UKIP, IMO, is an equal and opposite reaction to the undemocratic charge towards a "post democratic age" (copyright Lord Mandelson) by a bunch zealots motivated by an ideological agenda that has scant regard for public opinion. Referenda are routinely ignored, entire populations broken on the wheel of monetary union and the drive to centralise power in Brussels continues unabated.

The EU machine isn't a means to an end, it's an end in itself and can't be meaningfully reformed because of that. I'd rather take my chances with Westminster and MP's who, hate them or loathe them, can be sacked by the electorate. The answer to a broken democracy at home isn't to wave a white flag, throw it out completely and accept something worse in the shape of the EU.

That's why I'd have voted UKIP if I was at home and have frankly laughed at the coordinated smear campaign the establishment media have mounted against them since Farage destroyed Clegg in the TV debates. Sure there are racists in UKIP, they are there in every party as evidenced by former BNP councillor standing for Labour and the Tories in the local elections. Sadly the word racist has been used out of context so often and for so long to suppress legitimate debate on immigration that people no longer fear it.

In fact villa Ajax began to put his finger on it a few posts up when he said the more the media called UKIP racist, the more their support grew. People who know they are not racist are sick of being called it just because those arguing against them aren't prepared to justify their case. To many people now the word racist simply means disagreeing with the left liberal consensus that unlimited immigration is a good thing. It's unfortunate that such a strong word has lost much of its moral censure due to blatant misuse, but if you cry wolf too many times, well, you know the rest..

[MakemineVanilla]

 

The fact that that photo was in The Independent, which is marketed at a so-called elite, says everything.

I don't think it says much at all, other than that the i / Independent like all websites (it wasn't in the paper, I don't think - I didn't see it in the actual paper version of the Independent) chase hits for revenue.

 

I don't think the Independent is "marketed at a so-called elite" either. It's not really marketed at all, but what there is tends to be about it putting various sides of a debate/discussion/story, rather than being driven by proprietorial bias. In that it mostly succeeds. The i seems to be marketed on the basis that it's a a kind of concise version of the Indie, for a much lower price.

 

The Independent has Farage as a columnist, had Dominic Lawson (raving Tory, climate change denier, and son of former chancellor) as a columnist and also has left wing people as columnists (Mark Steel, Owen Jones till recently). it's good on financial and economic analysis.

It's less "preachy" than the Guardian, but does have a left of centre feel about some of its editorial stuff but it doesn't support any particular party.

The cricket and football writers are good.

 

 

From the comments of their on-line clientèle, they are increasingly accused of publishing too many trivial and sensational stories.

 

The layout and design suggests that their on-line version is increasingly targeted at mobile platform users: who like nice big pictures.

 

The Guardian is obviously the paper of choice for schoolteachers and other public employees - it might even be compulsory. 

 

Between the Guardian and the Inde it is possible to construct one decent newspaper but they both have their faults.

[Mantis]

I suspect the lack of coverge of NO2EU is more to do with Labour's rather efficient media machine. Go left of Labour and you're in the wilderness, basically. Also Bob Crow died, which no doubt had an effect.

I think it's more because they just aren't that popular at the moment (they only got 1% of the vote in 2009) and are only an EU party anyway.

[snowychap]

...the left liberal consensus that unlimited immigration is a good thing.

It's more than a shade bizarre that the free movement of people and little (or as little as possible) protectionism in the labour market are seen nowadays to come under the umbrella of the nebulous 'left liberal consensus'.

[villaajax]

My brother has moved to Sweden and taken a job that a Swedish person could do. Bloody emigrants!

[chrisp65]

I worked for 3 years in Malta doing a job a Maltese person could have learnt in a couple of months.

 

Whilst I was there I hogged a 3 bedroom beach front apartment all to myself because the company could afford it.

[mjmooney]

I suspect the lack of coverge of NO2EU is more to do with Labour's rather efficient media machine. Go left of Labour and you're in the wilderness, basically. Also Bob Crow died, which no doubt had an effect.

There is no question that the EU is a problem as it is run by Big Finance and is pretty much unaccountable. It goes against a lot of what I stand for, but I still wouldn't leave it, because I've more trust in fellow Europeans to achieve change than in the elitist Lords and Earls and their public schoolboys (and I emphasise boys) running the country for the benefit of their own class.

The mechanisms to achieve that change need to be put in place, admittedly. Hence staying put and sorting out the EU.

Thank you, my stance exactly.

[Kingfisher]

I worked for 3 years in Malta doing a job a Maltese person could have learnt in a couple of months.

Whilst I was there I hogged a 3 bedroom beach front apartment all to myself because the company could afford it.

If there's one thing I can't stand it's emigrants. Going over there, taking their jobs...

[Awol]

I worked for 3 years in Malta doing a job a Maltese person could have learnt in a couple of months.

Whilst I was there I hogged a 3 bedroom beach front apartment all to myself because the company could afford it.

If there's one thing I can't stand it's emigrants. Going over there, taking their jobs...

Playing the man not the ball? I'm amazed...

Where I am the system is simple, all expats pay private medical and education for self and all dependants, 12 months rent paid upfront, when your contract expires you leave - if it's not extended. No citizenship possibility, if your kids are mid year at school and you get sacked then that's just tough shit. The idea that an expat would get involved in public protest is laughable, unlike the fake Romanians protesting against UKIP in Croydon. Don't respect their culture and festivals? Get to jail. That's how the Gulf works, but of course the resident lefties will know all this.

I like their support of the Greens' agenda where the state has control of everything. No personal responsibility required, that's the governments' job.

What a joke.

[bickster]

Playing the man not the ball? I'm amazed...