Bolitics The New Condem Government

[villaajax]

 

 

Death Rate went up under the Tories I seem to recall hearing on the radio yesterday

 

Shhhh - we must not mention Thatcher

 

Well she definitely died on their watch

 

I hope they don't mention that fact in their election campaign, could be a big vote winner!

[meregreen]

 

In a survey quoted in the Guardian , of 25 Health care systems studied worldwide the NHS was the second most efficient per capita. Ireland was top. the USA with its largely run for profit system was amongst the worst. Doesn't quite fit the image painted does it.

 

 

when you view it by deaths per capita we are streets ahead of the US  ....i.e you're  more likely to die in a UK hospital than a US one

 

 

That's probably a better gauge than how efficient they are  ....

 

Doesn't change the fact that the NHS is far more efficient than most others though.

[tonyh29]

 

 

In a survey quoted in the Guardian , of 25 Health care systems studied worldwide the NHS was the second most efficient per capita. Ireland was top. the USA with its largely run for profit system was amongst the worst. Doesn't quite fit the image painted does it.

 

 

when you view it by deaths per capita we are streets ahead of the US  ....i.e you're  more likely to die in a UK hospital than a US one

 

 

That's probably a better gauge than how efficient they are  ....

 

Doesn't change the fact that the NHS is far more efficient than most others though.

 

I'm sure that's great consolation for the people that needless die

[drat01]

Tony - the NHS deals with such a broad range of people, ages, background, social status compared to the many and various ones that can be obtained in the US for example.

 

As has been mentioned the Tories are using quite alarming scare tactics (and downright lies) regarding deaths that they are trying to attribute to NHS care, it's quite obscene what Hunt is doing

[snowychap]

when you view it by deaths per capita we are streets ahead of the US

As in the general mortality rate?

 

....i.e you're  more likely to die in a UK hospital than a US one

Perhaps people in the US are dying elsewhere as they can't afford to get in to the hospital?

[bickster]

when you view it by deaths per capita we are streets ahead of the US

As in the general mortality rate?

 

....i.e you're  more likely to die in a UK hospital than a US one

Perhaps people in the US are dying elsewhere as they can't afford to get in to the hospital?

Indeed black people even get killed for buying Skittles before they get to hospital

[tonyh29]

 

when you view it by deaths per capita we are streets ahead of the US

As in the general mortality rate?

 

....i.e you're  more likely to die in a UK hospital than a US one

Perhaps people in the US are dying elsewhere as they can't afford to get in to the hospital?

 

I can't find the article right now  but I think it was referring to people that go to a UK hospital with a non fatal illness and then die of MRSA  .. stuff like that

 

it was an article I read on my phone so don't have it to hand just now

[markavfc40]

No one in their right mind would seriously suggest the US system of healthcare would be better than the NHS. The NHS is one of this countries greatest achievements and it should be nurtured and looked after.

 

As has been said by many the NHS won't survive another 5 years of Tory rule. Thankfully it won't have to.

Edited July 17, 2013 by markavfc40

[Awol]

As has been said by many the NHS won't survive another 5 years of Tory rule. Thankfully it won't have to.

Labour doubled NHS spending, the Coalition government have protected that spending at the expense of many other areas.

 

That being the case, maybe...just maybe, the problem isn't simply financial but relates to the way the organisation is being run?

 

In which case it doesn't matter whether it's Labour or the Tories in No 10. because that isn't where the problem lies.

[peterms]

Perhaps people in the US are dying elsewhere as they can't afford to get in to the hospital?

I suppose once you subtract all the ones who are shot in the street, or at school, or playing with daddy's gun, then subtract those who are removed from hospital and placed on the street or on a long-distance bus or whatever they do with people they think can't pay the bills, and of course all those who can't even get admitted to hospital in the first place, it leaves proportionately fewer able to die in hospital.

 

 

[tonyh29]

 

As has been said by many the NHS won't survive another 5 years of Tory rule. Thankfully it won't have to.

Labour doubled NHS spending, the Coalition government have protected that spending at the expense of many other areas.

 

That being the case, maybe...just maybe, the problem isn't simply financial but relates to the way the organisation is being run?

 

In which case it doesn't matter whether it's Labour or the Tories in No 10. because that isn't where the problem lies.

 

 

labour also spent billions to eradicate childhood poverty .. and turned it into adult poverty instead  .. (whilst failing to meet the childhood poverty targets it should be added)

 

The NHS isn't all the Olympics opening ceremony made it out to be , no idea why some still continue to believe otherwise  .... are the Tory party the right people to reform it , quite possibly not ... but it clearly needs reforming

[peterms]

my point was that nationalisation doesn't equal innovation

Neither nationalisation nor privatisation nor a state of always having been private equals innovation.

 

The myth we keep hearing from the private sector and its cheerleaders is that innovation comes about from the private sector, and the public sector is more about control, regulation, red tape, and even stifling innovation.  It's not true.

 

Mariana Mazzucato is interesting on this.  Innovation is her specialism, she's studied it for years and written a lot about it.  Here's a brief piece which sets out some of her views.  In brief: we have socialised the risk of innovation but privatised the rewards; companies prioritise value extraction, not value creation; countries where the public sector plays an active role in strategic innovation do best.

 

By the way, the pharma industry is one which has increasingly relied on restrictive practices, aggressive use of patent law, and suppression of research to underpin a strategy of rent extraction instead of innovation as a source of profit.  Ben Goldacre has some useful things to say about this, but here's Mazzucato again:

 

 

...In the drug industry, for example, 75% of the “radically innovative drugs” in the United States are researched in nationally funded laboratories. Whereas drug companies focus their efforts on “me-too” drugs — varieties of proven, profitable drugs — governments will take on potentially game-changing “new molecular priorities,” despite the risks involved...

 

[Dr_Pangloss]

We have one of the most cost effective health care systems in the world and one that invariably delivers high quality, it's one of the few things we can be proud about. Any idea to cut the NHS is insane.

[Dr_Pangloss]

No one in their right mind would seriously suggest the US system of healthcare would be better than the NHS. The NHS is one of this countries greatest achievements and it should be nurtured and looked after.

 

As has been said by many the NHS won't survive another 5 years of Tory rule. Thankfully it won't have to.

The US system is absolutely garbage and their government also spend more as a share of GDP on 'it' than we do ours.

[AVFCforever1991]

Copy the French, they seem to have a great heallthcare system..

[tonyh29]

Copy the French, they seem to have a great heallthcare system..

French lover :-)

Isn't the French system based on compulsary insurance ... I.e Private Healthcare ?

[Awol]

We have..... one that invariably delivers high quality

That's just not true though, is it.

 

 

'Trapped in mediocrity': The damning verdict on the NHS as report reveals 14 hospitals had higher than expected mortality rates

 

 

 

Poor care, inadequate staffing and bad management behind deaths of patients at worst hospitals, says NHS chief

 

Dozens of hospitals across England may have the “ingredients” of poor care, over-stretched staff and substandard management that led to the deaths of hundreds of patients in Mid Staffordshire, the Medical Director of the NHS warned today.

 

In a damming report into 14 hospitals with the highest mortality rates in the country Sir Bruce Keogh found they had become “trapped in mediocrity” ignoring concerns raised by patients and staff.

 

As a result of the inquiry 11 of the 14 hospitals are to be placed in special measures and will be subject to intense on-going inspections.

But Sir Bruce warned many other hospitals could have similar – but as yet unidentified – problems and called for new, more accurate, tests to identify failing hospitals.

 

A member of Sir Bruce’s review panel went further suggesting that the 14 hospitals investigated were not necessarily even the worst in the country....

 

It's not true to say the NHS is irredeemably broken, neither is it honest or constructive to pretend that it "invariably delivers high quality care" when clearly it ain't so.

[drat01]

Majority by far of Tory politicians to benefit from private healthcare . Tory political party seek to kill off nhs . No brain surgery required as to motives

[Awol]

Tory political party seek to kill off nhs .

Why do you keep spouting this same nonsense? If they wanted to kill off the NHS why have they ring fenced its budget against spending cuts? Can you actually explain that?

[Chindie]

Probably the best thread for this, as it'd die in the 'Birmingham is going to hell in a handcart' thread...

 

 

 

A new survey for the Royal Statistical Society and King's College London shows public opinion is repeatedly off the mark on issues including crime, benefit fraud and immigration.

The research, carried out by Ipsos Mori from a phone survey of 1,015 people aged 16 to 75, lists ten misconceptions held by the British public. Among the biggest misconceptions are:

- Benefit fraud: the public think that £24 of every £100 of benefits is fraudulently claimed. Official estimates are that just 70 pence in every £100 is fraudulent - so the public conception is out by a factor of 34.

- Immigration: some 31 per cent of the population is thought to consist of recent immigrants, when the figure is actually 13 per cent. Even including illegal immigrants, the figure is only about 15 per cent. On the issue of ethnicity, black and Asian people are thought to make up 30 per cent of the population, when the figure is closer to 11 per cent.

-  Crime: some 58 per cent of people do not believe crime is falling, when the Crime Survey for England and Wales shows that incidents of crime were 19 per cent lower in 2012 than in 2006/07 and 53 per cent lower than in 1995. Some 51 per cent think violent crime is rising, when it has fallen from almost 2.5 million incidents in 2006/07 to under 2 million in 2012.

- Teen pregnancy is thought to be 25 times higher than the official estimates: 15 per cent of of girls under 16 are thought to become pregnant every year, when official figures say the amount is closer to 0.6 per cent.

Among the other surprising figures are that 26 per cent of people think foreign aid is in the top three items the Government spends money on (it actually makes up just 1.1 per cent of expenditure), and that 29 per cent of people think more is spent on Jobseekers' Allowance than pensions.

In fact we spend 15 times more on pensions - £4.9 billion on JSA vs £74.2 billion on pensions.

Hetan Shah, executive director of the Royal Statistical Society, said: "Our data poses real challenges for policymakers. How can you develop good policy when public perceptions can be so out of kilter with the evidence?

"We need to see three things happen. First, politicians need to be better at talking about the real state of affairs of the country, rather than spinning the numbers. Secondly, the media has to try and genuinely illuminate issues, rather than use statistics to sensationalise.

"And finally we need better teaching of statistical literacy in schools, so that people get more comfortable in understanding evidence."

Bobby Duffy, the managing director of Ipsos Mori Social Research Institute, said: "A lack of trust in government information is also very evident in other questions in the survey - so 'myth-busting' is likely to prove a challenge on many of these issues.  But it is still useful to understand where people get their facts most wrong."

The Indie

Is it sad that that's not surprising in the slightest?

Edited July 17, 2013 by Chindie