tonyh29 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 The economy is in a dreadful state, and quoting the number of "new jobs" is just an attempt to disguise this. when I mentioned something similar prior to 2010 I was told it wasn't the case and all was wonderful with employment figures , I'm guessing that isn't the case now The economy is in a dreadful state , but it's also in a slightly better state than it was ... still hardly the time to start popping the champagne corks of course Some workers are having an 11% pay rise forced upon them, the poor bastards. yes it is rather headline grabbing isn't it ... however the proposal seems to also be that a range of expenses, including the dinner allowance and lump sum payment to MPs leaving Parliament will also be scrapped I've no idea of the exact details of course but if they are given a £6.5k pay rise but as a result it stopped the £65,750 that many MP's who lost their seat at the last election got ... then isn't it actually worth considering ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) G4S probe after tag firms' multi-million overcharging confirmed The justice secretary has asked the Serious Fraud Office to consider investigating G4S over overcharging for tagging criminals in England and Wales. Chris Grayling told MPs overcharging by G4S and rival Serco amounted to tens of millions of pounds. He said some charges were for tagging people who were in jail or abroad, and a few who had died. Serco agreed to a "forensic audit" by accountants PwC of what happened but G4S declined to take part, he added. The firms have said they will repay any amount which is found to be due. G4S has said it has "co-operated fully with the PwC audit" and is conducting its own inquiry but is not aware of any indications of dishonesty or misconduct. Shares in the companies fell as Mr Grayling said there would also be a wider review of all contracts held by the two companies across government. Last month, figures showed government spending on contracts with G4S had risen by more than £65m in 2012 to £394m. In a Commons statement, Mr Grayling said he had also launched a disciplinary investigation into the way the contracts had been managed inside the Ministry of Justice after uncovering evidence that officials knew in 2008 there were problems with how both companies were billing for tagging. "The House will share my astonishment that two of the government's biggest suppliers would seek to charge in this way," said Mr Grayling. 2004 contracts Electronic tagging of criminals is a key part of the government's strategy to monitor offenders in the community. The contracts are awarded to private companies who then place the electronic ankle bracelet on the offender or suspect and ensure that their movements comply with their bail or licence conditions. Mr Grayling said that current contracts had been awarded in November 2004 and were due to expire shortly. He said that an audit had revealed a "significant anomaly in the billing practices" of both companies. Mr Grayling said: "It included charges for people who were back in prison and had had their tags removed, people who had left the country, and those who had never been tagged in the first place but who had instead been returned to court. "There are a small number of cases where charging continued for a period when the subject was known to have died. "In some instances, charging continued for a period of many months and indeed years after active monitoring had ceased." 'Open and transparent' Mr Grayling said officials estimated that the total over-billing was in the "low tens of millions" but it was not clear whether the problems dated back to an earlier 1999 contract. He said that Serco had agreed to open its books to auditors PriceWaterhouseCoopers who would conduct a forensic audit of what happened, including looking at executives' emails. Mr Grayling said: "We put the same proposal for a further detailed forensic audit to take place to G4S. They have rejected that proposal. "Given the nature of the findings of the audit work that has taken place so far, and the very clear legal advice that I have received, I am today asking the Serious Fraud Office to consider whether an investigation is appropriate into what happened in G4S, and to confirm to me whether any of the actions of anyone in that company represent more than a contractual breach." Shadow justice secretary Sadiq Khan said the government should ask the police and the Serious Fraud Office to investigate both G4S and Serco. "Both these companies are recipients of hundreds of millions of pounds of contracts from across government and local authorities and it is important that an immediate and independent audit takes place to make sure there are no wider irregularities involving taxpayers' money by them or the other big players," he said. He also said plans to privatise probation contracts now needed to be evaluated through pilot schemes. The BBC understands that G4S rejected the proposal because it maintained that its own internal review had found no dishonesty. In a statement, the company said: "We can confirm that we are working with the Ministry of Justice on their review of the electronic monitoring contracts. "We believe that we are delivering our electronic monitoring service in a completely open and transparent way." It added: "G4S believes that any evidence or indication of dishonesty should be referred to the relevant authorities including, if appropriate, the SFO." G4S chief executive Ashley Almanz said: "We take very seriously the concerns expressed by the Ministry of Justice. We are determined to deal with these issues in a prompt and appropriate manner." Serco's chief executive Christopher Hyman said: "We are deeply concerned if we fall short of the standards expected of all of us. "We are therefore taking this extremely seriously and will continue to work closely with our customer to resolve their concerns in this matter. We will not tolerate poor practice and behaviour and wherever it is found we will put it right." G4S faced controversy last year after it failed to provide all of its 10,400 contracted employees to the London Olympics. Ian Lawrence, general secretary of the National Association of Probation Officers, said Serco and G4S should not be allowed to bid for any of the contracts under proposals to privatise the probation service Andrew Neilson, director of campaigns at the Howard League for Penal Reform, said Mr Grayling "should rethink his plans to introduce yet more private sector involvement in the criminal justice system". P.s. McShane to be charge with false accounting over his expense claims, too, I gather. Edited July 11, 2013 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 II've no idea of the exact details of course but if they are given a £6.5k pay rise but as a result it stopped the £65,750 that many MP's who lost their seat at the last election got ... then isn't it actually worth considering ? Yes it is. Anything which makes base pay the deal and cuts out all the fringe benefits enhances transparency and makes fiddling harder. And it seems they need pushing on both those fronts. Part of any deal should be stopping them doing second jobs, holding directorships and so on. The line about these second (and third, fourth, fifth) paid roles "keeping them in touch with the real world" is and always was bollocks. The jobs they get are either far removed from the real world, or else sinecures which serve simply to conceal corruption. I'd be happy to see them paid more in return for cutting out the fiddles and the corruption. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 If you were caught dipping in to the till at work your employer wouldn't offer you a pay rise to deter you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 If you were caught dipping in to the till at work your employer wouldn't offer you a pay rise to deter you. Where it is till-dipping, they are prosecuted, eg the case Snowy mentions just a couple of posts up. The problem is more the blurred rules, the decades of encouragement of using the vagueness of the rules to bulk out claims to supplement income (to make their pay seem artificially low), and by far the most significant, allowing companies to bung them large sums in return for favours, inside info, introductions, bending legislation, awarding contracts, and privatisation. This set of things is very different from stealing from an employer. The corruption, and in particular the current dismembering of the NHS for the benefit of companies which have given large bungs to large numbers of MPs from the Labour, LibDem and most especially Tory parties, is theft from all of us. The current system allows it, while focussing outrage on someone who has wrongly claimed expenses. That's a shockingly wrong set of priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 So new primary curriculum snuck in then? In what other sector would you be given such a short amount of time to change so much? Obviously the core elements remain the same, but most of the specialised resources have to be replaced, all while teachers learn the new curriculum WHILE teaching the old one (in its final year). It all seems extremely rushed and not very well thought out. And of course the schools that people pay for and the schools that suit the system the Tories want in education (anybody can be a teacher/free schools/academies) don't have to follow it. It's so fragrantly obvious what the big plan is. I'm not even talking about the curriculum itself (and that is a whole other debate that I'm not prepared to get into right now), but the sheer lack of time given to implement it. Maybe if teachers didn't have classes all next year in the time they have to prepare for the reform. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 It's so fragrantly obvious what the big plan is. Yes, it does all smell a little fishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 It's so fragrantly obvious what the big plan is. Yes, it does all smell a little fishy. So Mary Archer's involved, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Glad to see Plain packaging on fags and minimum pricing for alcohol has been put on the back burner yeah for sure there will be a small wailing of "won't somebody think of the children " but lets hope by backburner they mean " forever" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Glad to see Plain packaging on fags and minimum pricing for alcohol has been put on the back burner yeah for sure there will be a small wailing of "won't somebody think of the children " but lets hope by backburner they mean " forever" Not something I often say, but I agree with this Tory MP. Sarah Wollaston, the Conservative MP and former GP, responded to the announcement by posting on Twitter: "R.I.P public health. A day of shame for this government; the only winners big tobacco, big alcohol and big undertakers." In a subsequent interview on the BBC's World at One, she partly blamed the decision on Lynton Crosby, the Conservatives' general election co-ordinator credited with telling David Cameron to "scrap the barnacles off the boat" – meaning that the prime minister should focus on core issues such as immigration and not waste political capital on more marginal concerns. "One of those barnacles is today being buried at sea and that seems to be public health. I think that's very worrying," Wollaston said. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 R.I.P public health my arse people ought to take responsibility for what they consume and if they are worried that Chantelle / Tyler is going to develop a 40 fags a day habit because of shiny packaging then maybe they maybe people should do a better job raising their children instead of looking to pass the blame elsewhere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I'm not sure that "blame" is the most useful standpoint from which to view this. Promoting cigarettes increases cigarette sales. That's why they do it. Increased cigarette use leads to more addiction, and lots of illness, avoidable death, and cost to all of us. We have a choice of allowing cigarette manufacturers to make money by pushing these social and money costs on to the rest of us, or not. Saying that it's simply down to parents to stand firm against techniques and approaches which have been found over many decades to be very effective at changing behaviour, and that if they aren't strong-willed or determined enough to be able to do so, then let their kids die a gruesome death, is a little naive, don't you think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) True my kids/ parent comment may have been a tad flippant , the names were the clue , but seriously I can't subscribe to anything you say there ... There are factors why people smoke shinny packets isn't one of them .... You'd be better off banning celebs from smoking as that will influence children more than a packet Edited July 12, 2013 by tonyh29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 True my kids/ parent comment may have been a tad flippant , the names were the clue , but seriously I can't subscribe to anything you say there ... There are factors why people smoke shinny packets isn't one of them .... You'd be better off banning celebs from smoking as that will influence children more than a packet Yes, the packaging is just one part of it. The general aim, I suppose most people would agree, is to get across a message that smoking is cool, glamorous, and associated with being attractive and having a desirable lifestyle. But the packaging is important, which is why these firms really don't want something which undermines that message. They spend vast amounts of money creating packaging which reinforces the messaging, and they do this only because they have found it works in getting kids addicted. The celeb angle has been partly tackled of course, through greater control of how smoking is shown in films and on tv. That was bitterly resisted, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 So the main political adviser to David Cameron, tough guy Lynton Crosby, who was the main instigator of killing off the restrictions on tobacco packaging (see tweet from tory MP above), turns out to own a PR company which has been advising, for money, Philip Morris, one of the world's biggest tobacco companies, on how to make more money by, er, killing off the government's plans to restrict tobacco packaging. Should we be surprised, or shocked, by this latest piece of blatant corruption at the heart of government? Or is it all just washing over us, so that we drown in the endless tide of our own weary cynicism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Truly shocked. I had such faith in a government heavily funded by the City & various others. Edited July 12, 2013 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 If you can't trust your government, then who can you trust...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Some specific questions have been put to Cameron and the Cabinet Secretary about Lynton Crosby and the reported conflict of interest, here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 In Thailand the packages come with images of cancerous lungs, mouths that have rotted away and giant tumours. Its very grim stuff. The majority of people still seem to smoke though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
privateer Posted July 14, 2013 Share Posted July 14, 2013 In Thailand the packages come with images of cancerous lungs, mouths that have rotted away and giant tumours. Its very grim stuff. The majority of people still seem to smoke though. They do in England as well, the last time I bothered to look whilst taking out a fag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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