Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #4 - Leaders Debate one

[kidlewis]

All it has done is stopped the barbarism with controlling foxes. Just as many are getting killed by snares or guns. It's not actually increasing the number of foxes about. If anything it's doing the opposite.

I don't think the ban was ever about increasing numbers it was about reducing animal suffering and stopping them being ripped to pieces by dogs.

If numbers are still controlled in a humane way then so be it, it has to be better than them being ripped to pieces in the name of entertainment or sport.

Quite funny that foxes actually suffer more through the alternative methods of killing them then. Shooting a fox is highly ineffective, as the report into the hunting ban pointed out.

Gets ignored though because people still think guns come with insta kill magic bullets.

which is the main counter argument for pro hunters. Hounds are trained to go for the throat, as jack russells naturally do to rats if trained properly.

If you watch a hunting animal in the wild, they tackle their prey and instantly try to get the throat to suffocate, crush the windpipe and spine (depending on the prey and hunter). this is the fastest way to kill the animal.

it's what the hounds go for if trained properly.

as mentioned before my friend told me he didn't get a clean shot on a fox before and shot through it's chest, almost ripped it in half and it was still alive.

tell me that is a more humane way of killing a fox than a proper kill using hounds.

unfortunately because foxes are such a pest there is not decent way of killing them.

[TheDon]

As do most people. It's quite amazing how Labour and Tory supporters keep banging on about 'Lib Dem policies won't stand up to scrutiny' to make it sound like people are only supporting Lib Dem due to the TV debate. That's a bit insulting TBH and it seems that once most people look at each manifesto and compare then it's quite apparently that Labour and Tory policies are either media-reactionary and are trying to play to what they think will be popular or misguided. Lib Dem policies seem (at least to me) to be actually considered and made with common sense, even if they may not be popular.

To be fair a lot of people currently backing the Libs are doing so because of the TV debate you only need to look at the boost in the polls to know that.

Yes, which is a bad thing in itself. However if it gets more people actually interested and comparing policy then it will be a means to an end.

I doubt it will though.

This is xfactor politics, people will vote based on what they see in the TV debates only. They aren't going to rush off afterwards to compare policy and look into the logistics of if the policies are actually workable. They're just going to decide who they liked more on TV and vote for them.

[Jon]

a neigbour when I was a kid had their 6 chickens all killed by a fox, and the fox didn't even eat them.

"at the end of the daty, you will pay the price for being a fussy eater"

A. Partridge

[kidlewis]

people seemed to think it was an upper class thing though, which is clearly completely wrong.

How so?

generally, it was the "upper classes", land owners, farmers and the bloodthirsty that partook in this activity, was it not?

and pikeys, which on their own balances out the class of the partakers quite a lot for me.

[Jon]

people seemed to think it was an upper class thing though, which is clearly completely wrong.

How so?

generally, it was the "upper classes", land owners, farmers and the bloodthirsty that partook in this activity, was it not?

and pikeys, which on their own balances out the class of the partakers quite a lot for me.

Pikeys on hunts? Surely quite rare? (although they may have a bit of the bloodlust going on i guess)

[kidlewis]

a neigbour when I was a kid had their 6 chickens all killed by a fox, and the fox didn't even eat them.

"at the end of the daty, you will pay the price for being a fussy eater"

A. Partridge

lol, they certainly do.

I am sure somewhere else in the country a fox got into a chicken farm and managed to kill over a 100 in a night. remember reading that as a "pro" hunt for foxes story.

didn't look too nice. feathers and giblets everywhere a bit like KFC gone caveman.

[wiganvillain]

'Lib Dem policies won't stand up to scrutiny' to make it sound like people are only supporting Lib Dem due to the TV debate

Their share of vote in the polls has risen by over 10% since the TV debate so you can see why that conclusion could be reached though ..though for it's sins VT has always had a lib dem slant to it

until recently I couldn't really have told you what the lib dems policies were but since the debate it's caused me to look closer

Localised immigration policy in my opinion wouldn't work and i'm not sure about the libs VAT on new houses either ...

as my sky poll results showed I'm not adverse to one or two of their policies ..but there are some that really do need to be questioned

So, no different to all the other parties basically

[kidlewis]

people seemed to think it was an upper class thing though, which is clearly completely wrong.

How so?

generally, it was the "upper classes", land owners, farmers and the bloodthirsty that partook in this activity, was it not?

and pikeys, which on their own balances out the class of the partakers quite a lot for me.

Pikeys on hunts? Surely quite rare? (although they may have a bit of the bloodlust going on i guess)

it could have just been coincidence. Henley-in-Arden near hockley heath there was a hunt years ago, I drove past, loads of pikey looking people in a field with caravans and also a hunt going on with them seemingly involved.

perhaps they just asked to join in because they loved the look of it.

then again I can see how fox hunting would be appealing to them, that and leaving heaps of rubbish on the side of the road.

[snowychap]

which is the main counter argument for pro hunters.

And that is where the argument gets pretty nonsensical. No member of a hunt whom I have known has ever seriously argued (other than in an argument with those specifically against fox hunting) that their concern is for the amount of pain or otherwise a fox may go through.

Edit: No member is probably a little extreme - very few if any.

Those on both sides of that argument have little concern for a fox - the fox and the nature of its death or life are merely something to argue about.

[blandy]

url=http://www.fridgemagnet.org.uk/toys/dave-met.php]Election Posters

blandy in technology fail shock :-)

Yikes! Rumbled again.

[kidlewis]

'Lib Dem policies won't stand up to scrutiny' to make it sound like people are only supporting Lib Dem due to the TV debate

Their share of vote in the polls has risen by over 10% since the TV debate so you can see why that conclusion could be reached though ..though for it's sins VT has always had a lib dem slant to it

until recently I couldn't really have told you what the lib dems policies were but since the debate it's caused me to look closer

Localised immigration policy in my opinion wouldn't work and i'm not sure about the libs VAT on new houses either ...

as my sky poll results showed I'm not adverse to one or two of their policies ..but there are some that really do need to be questioned

So, no different to all the other parties basically

the localised immigration is nice in principle, but just wouldn't work and would not be able to be controlled. it would descend into chaos. Which is what I think people are worried about lib dems policies (some of them)

great idea, but when you look closely at them you think "oh cack that wouldn't really work would it".

another one being moving a lot of the freight traffic on motorways onto trains with an improved rail network.

great in principle, but how many haulage companies would need money to relocate, make thousands of people redundant, not to mention significant improvements to take on more trains that go faster, take more freight and also go to more areas of the country, and improve the network into europe for it?

great idea but surely would result in a monster investment into rail (not just high speed but a wider network)

millions on subsidising relocating businesses nearer to railway points for loading and unloading.

thousands unemployed through redundancy or somehow the government re-training them (probably into the new green industry the lib dems want to help create)

ensure the rail networks can cope with the increased demand of some seriously increased freight traffic.

they say they will cut the budget from major road networks to fund it. which cannot be more than a couple of bill surely?

[LondonLax]

the localised immigration is nice in principle, but just wouldn't work and would not be able to be controlled. it would descend into chaos. Which is what I think people are worried about lib dems policies (some of them)

great idea, but when you look closely at them you think "oh cack that wouldn't really work would it".

It does seem to work in Australia but then Australia is a much larger country

[Awol]

the localised immigration is nice in principle, but just wouldn't work and would not be able to be controlled. it would descend into chaos. Which is what I think people are worried about lib dems policies (some of them)

Exactly, the human rights lawyers would be all over it and it's bound to be over turned in the European courts if not here. I also think an amnesty for all the illegals which the Lib Dems are proposing is a terrible idea, with the worst unemployment figures since 1994 I'd suggest jobs should be going to British people first and foremost.

The system where I live is great, you get a local sponsor who can only bring you in to the country if it's proven that a local can't do the job. Your visa lasts for the duration of your employment. When the job is finished you go home. Why we can't apply the same system in the UK I don't know, but some seem to feel the world and his extended family have a fundamental right to live in the UK. I've never heard a decent explanation as to why.

[LondonLax]

The system where I live is great, you get a local sponsor who can only bring you in to the country if it's proven that a local can't do the job. Your visa lasts for the duration of your employment. When the job is finished you go home.

That's funny, that is the exact system that exists in the UK.

A number of my Australian friends had to go home because their working holiday visa ran out. They could not get a work sponsor because their job has to be advertised first and shown that no local person can do it. Others who have managed to pass the test and get the local sponsor are only valid whilst they are employed, if they are made redundant they have to go back to Oz/New Zealand etc...

[PauloBarnesi]

Just wanted to ask Ian (Drat); what is the Labour policy on the reintroduction of the European Beaver into the wildlife? That to be fair could swing my vote.

[kidlewis]

Just wanted to ask Ian (Drat); what is the Labour policy on the reintroduction of the European Beaver into the wildlife? That to be fair could swing my vote.

didn't the UK used to have wolves and bears?

i'd chomp if the odd bear and wolf was about.

then we wouldn't need to kill foxes they'd do it for us

[PauloBarnesi]

Yes I think we had wolves and bears. Warwickshire has a bear in its shield?

[tonyh29]

millions on subsidising relocating businesses nearer to railway points for loading and unloading.

haven't you ever played Railroad Tycoon , you just flatten areas and build your railway line where ever the hell you please :-)

So, no different to all the other parties basically

agreed

I wonder if the public think a hung parliament means we will get the best of all of them ?

in fact , does it work like that , anyone know ?

[kidlewis]

I bet guido fawkes is Charlie Bookers brother. sarcasm is just brilliant.

[tonyh29]

European Beaver

Mmmmmm European Beaver