Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #2

[drat01]

Only 2 countries, who were really responible for allowing the conditions that caused the recession, Brown as Chancellor was the one responsible in this country for the direction the FSA took. Its not supposition.

Gareth - that is simply not true and you reinforces your dislike of Labour which is shining through on your posts

You are saying that the UK and I am assuming the USA? were responsible for the worldwide recession. That is the sort of statement that belongs in the Tory led media, e.g. the Mail. It is / was a worldwide occurrence and none of the major factors are singular to one particular country like you are trying to make out. How many banks are single country? None!

[Demitri_C]

To put what you've said there in perspective, to my mind, had we had a genuine Conservative party in power these last 13 years, we'd still be in the same mess. They'd have done the same things. Maybe worse.

or maybe better, we simply dont know but labour have truely f*cked this country up good and proper

[Risso]

Only 2 countries, who were really responible for allowing the conditions that caused the recession, Brown as Chancellor was the one responsible in this country for the direction the FSA took. Its not supposition.

Gareth - that is simply not true and you reinforces your dislike of Labour which is shining through on your posts

You are saying that the UK and I am assuming the USA? were responsible for the worldwide recession. That is the sort of statement that belongs in the Tory led media, e.g. the Mail. It is / was a worldwide occurrence and none of the major factors are singular to one particular country like you are trying to make out. How many banks are single country? None!

Ian, it's a nonsense to suggest that two of the biggest economies in the world weren't directly involved in the whole banking fiasco.

It was Brown who took away the BoE's power to regulate the banks, and gave it to the utterly inept FSA. His hands are exceedingly dirty.

[tonyh29]

to my mind, had we had a genuine Conservative party in power these last 13 years, we'd still be in the same mess. They'd have done the same things. Maybe worse.

isn't that kinda like saying if Doug had stayed in charge at Villa we would have won the league by now .... nobody can really say for sure if the Tories would have made things better ..or worse ..

As an example , The Business community and even labourites like Richard branson have come out in support of the Tory proposal to reverse the NI hike , so how can anyone then say the Tories would have made it worse .. but all we can really do is speculate , but given the state of the economy I can't see how "the Tories may have made it worse" is any form of sane reasoning ... it's a common labour ploy , fu*K things up and then try and deflect attention away by saying but if the other party had been in control it would have been far worse ... what a load of bollocks ..

It should be on real issues not on "what if" ... Darlings growth projections have been proven wrong by the IMF this week .. Brown constantly lies to the public , Chilcot enquiry the other week , immigration figures this week .. they are the issues and based on them Labour should be lucky to even come third in this election

it seems with the VT community it's a case of I will vote labour who embraced Thatcherism but I won't vote Tory because they might be streaked with essence of Thatcher ..... it's a weird one

Cameron may be a bit wishy washy at times but if you actually see him I believe he genuinely cares ... in contrast to the contempt Brown has shown this county that should be more than good enough to put your X against Camerons name ...

I think come election day the country will wake up and Labour will be removed but being away in Hungary at the weekend I actually contemplated going back there to live if Labour somehow win another term .. and before you all shout good riddance they do have internet in Hungary so i can still annoy you all

[drat01]

Ian, it's a nonsense to suggest that two of the biggest economies in the world weren't directly involved in the whole banking fiasco.

It was Brown who took away the BoE's power to regulate the banks, and gave it to the utterly inept FSA. His hands are exceedingly dirty.

I didn't say that though Mart - Gareth was saying or at least implying that the UK and The USA were responsible for the worldwide recession, which is frankly absurd. Governments, Companies, People with vested interests (e.g. tax exiles and hedge funds) and a whole lot more were collectively responsible. Its also ludicrous to say that under a Tory regime we would have been better off and that the worldwide recession would have been avoided as they are extremely in favour of a lot of the biggest contributors to the difficulties that the world has faced

Previous recessions - notably the major one overseen by the Tory party (and note who was an economic advisor then?) - were more localised but now the world has changed and isolationism will not work as industry and that which drives it lies across the human artificial divides - i.e. borders

[Risso]

Oh well, I'll be using my overseas vote to try and rid the good citizens of Bolton West of that mad bag, Ruth Kelly.

[drat01]

Just watching Cameron and his super stage managed speech - the man is letting a few things slip - "if someone wants to set up a school then let them" ? - what the hell?

[wiganvillain]

Cameron may be a bit wishy washy at times but if you actually see him I believe he genuinely cares ... in contrast to the contempt Brown has shown this county that should be more than good enough to put your X against Camerons name ...

Sory Tony, but for me the only thing "Dave" cares about is becoming PM and with the above all you're doing is perpretating the "vote for me I'm not Gordon" cmapign the Toties are running.

For the first time since I could vote (1976) I'm actualy considering not bothering as I find all of them self serving useless twunts

[Ads]

The recession was worldwide, do you believe Labour created a worldwide slump.

No. I believe Labours reckless and incompetent mismanagement of the economy contributed to our major recession.

I think only a fool would trust them to (mis-) manage it again after they’ve failed so spectrally and with such disastrous consequences for millions of people across this country.

Of course the recession - albeit a worldwide one - is Labour's fault an of course Gideon would have dealt with it so much better - hilarious!

As Risso, Awol and Gringo et al said, I find it impossible to absolve Labour from their responsibility in the worst recession any of us have seen in our lifetime. To do so, would be wrong.

[drat01]

As Risso, Awol and Gringo et al said, I find it impossible to absolve Labour from their responsibility in the worst recession any of us have seen in our lifetime. To do so, would be wrong.

So you honestly believe that Gideon and Dave would have kept Britain (and using your logic the world!) out of recession?

[bickster]

Ian, it's a nonsense to suggest that two of the biggest economies in the world weren't directly involved in the whole banking fiasco.

It was Brown who took away the BoE's power to regulate the banks, and gave it to the utterly inept FSA. His hands are exceedingly dirty.

I didn't say that though Mart - Gareth was saying or at least implying that the UK and The USA were responsible for the worldwide recession, which is frankly absurd. Governments, Companies, People with vested interests (e.g. tax exiles and hedge funds) and a whole lot more were collectively responsible. Its also ludicrous to say that under a Tory regime we would have been better off and that the worldwide recession would have been avoided as they are extremely in favour of a lot of the biggest contributors to the difficulties that the world has faced

Previous recessions - notably the major one overseen by the Tory party (and note who was an economic advisor then?) - were more localised but now the world has changed and isolationism will not work as industry and that which drives it lies across the human artificial divides - i.e. borders

Read Gringo's post explains it perfectly Ian.

[Risso]

It would have been difficult for any major economy to avoid the recession totaqlly, but Brown was complicit in making it as bad it was. Even when we do emerge from recession, we're going to be left with a deficit that's going to take a lot of years and a lot of pain to reduce. I don't think any other party or leader would have been so spectacularly incompetent as Labour and Brown have been.

[drat01]

i saw in the paper on Thursday that documents relating to Browns mis-selling of our gold reserves have finally been deregulatednow and shows how he went against the advice of the bank of England and the experts... the clues about his control freak personality were there years ago if people chose to look

Brown's Bottom

All a conspiracy between the chancellor, BoE, the Fed, AIG, Rothschilds and others according to that report.

Hmmm Max Keiser - what a nice man he seems to be. Now lets see what drives that man? Hedge Funds - Oh hang on ...... - Described as a "a new kind of terrorist" as the Grud said "of trying to exist "beyond the normal forces and controls of society."

Excuse me if I treat anything that he says with the scepticism usually saved for party political speeches

[Awol]

Jon you are showing your True Blue bias there - to think that Teaching and Education are in some a "company" is so wrong on many counts

I suppose those who pay millions for private education at places like Eton may agree with you though

Arrse. Either you are deliberately misreading what I wrote or have just missed the point completely.

I don't want to see teachers sacked and am not equating them to a commercial organisation, the problem is the complete resistance by all of the unions named to accept that economies HAVE to be made. Labour have created 700,000 public sector jobs since coming to power with terms and conditions that private sector employees could only dream of. Do all of these provide value for money? Do they f**k.

While those who actually generate the national wealth are suffering so that their employers can avoid further job cuts, the public sector as a whole are coining it in and refusing to face reality.There are too many of them, doing too little and often for too much money. That will change after the next election whether the victors are Labour or Conservative because there is no other choice.

It's not about party politics Ian, it's about economic reality.

[tonyh29]

Excuse me if I treat anything that he says with the scepticism usually saved for party political speeches

tbh I've no idea who he is , i assumed he was some internet nutjob and his conspiracy theory just kinda confirmed it

However , it doesn't deflect ( but nice try) away from the facts that Brown mis-sold the gold and spent years suppressing the documentation that proved he ignored ALL advice that was against him doing so ...

the released documents do have one paragraph that is still blanked out regarding a meeting with Brown and King ... one can only wonder what that paragraph contains but as it's suppressed at Browns insistence I don't suppose it's anything that shows him in a favourable light

[Ads]

As Risso, Awol and Gringo et al said, I find it impossible to absolve Labour from their responsibility in the worst recession any of us have seen in our lifetime. To do so, would be wrong.

So you honestly believe that Gideon and Dave would have kept Britain (and using your logic the world!) out of recession?

Honestly, I have no idea, as we’d be hypothesising. I cannot blame a Conservative Government that didn’t exist, for mistakes it didn’t make in an economy it didn’t mismanage.

I can however point the finger towards Labour and their utter incompetence.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

It's come to my attention that if you close your eyes, Cameron and Clegg become the same person.

[snowychap]

I wonder how important a part in the election campaign the price of petrol will play?

The AA are reporting that they expect the record 'average' to be broken today and, as speculation appears to be driving the price of oil upwards at the moment, that may get quite a bit worse in the next few weeks.

Petrol prices head for record as oil reaches 18-month high

Oil hit an 18-month high of $86.70 a barrel in New York yesterday, adding to expectations that petrol prices will today pass the record levels of the summer of 2008.

Crude oil for May delivery was at its highest level since the peak of the financial crisis in October 2008 as a raft of statistics boosted confidence in the American economy. The price has been rising steadily since early February, when it stood at about $72, amid hopes that strong economic data from Asia and signs of recovery in the United States would trigger demand.

However, the rising oil price is likely to mean more pain at the petrol pump for British drivers, who are already suffering as the weaker pound pushes up wholesale petrol costs. Although Alistair Darling staggered the introduction of the “green” duty rise in last month’s Budget, 1p a litre was added on April 1, with a further 1p rise to come in October.

Figures from the AA for last Wednesday — before the duty increase — showed average petrol pump prices at 118.07p per litre, with diesel at 118.67p. The 1p tax and the latest crude price rises are pushing average pump prices towards the record 119.7p reached in July 2008, when oil prices peaked at $147 a barrel. Many petrol stations were charging 121p or more over the weekend and the AA expected the record for the average pump price to be passed today.

Brent crude rose $1.69 to $85.70 per barrel yesterday as analysts in the US predicted that speculators would send the price towards $100 by the summer, but that it would then fall back, since there was no shortage of supply .

Tom Kloza, of the Oil Price Information Service, said traders had moved from showing a “legitimate reaction” to economic data to an “over-reaction” and that movements in the crude oil price was more an indicator of optimism — or pessimism — about the recovery than a reflection of the cost of extraction or of supply and demand.

Fadel Gheil, an energy analyst at Oppenheimer & Co, thought prices could hit $100 in the second quarter on the back of positive economic data such as car sales figures.

However, he said that such levels were not sustainable. He thought the “real” price for crude should be about $60 per barrel. “Demand will never return to 2007 levels,” he said, not least because of restrictions on carbon emissions. “The market is being driven by financial players. The same speculators that pushed prices up to $150 [in mid-2008] will keep pushing the envelope until they reach a point at which they all jump.”

...more on link

[tonyh29]

I cannot blame a Conservative Government that didn’t exist, for mistakes it didn’t make in an economy it didn’t mismanage.

this x 1000000000000000 *

*

number may vary depending on Darlings projections v IMF projections

[blandy]

... I don't think any other party or leader would have been so spectacularly incompetent as Labour and Brown have been.

I do. I actually believe the tories would have been even worse.

My understanding, which I guess is limited to reading analysis in finacial pages of various papers, is that everything the tories said and did at the time it was going on would have made things worse. Given the regulations were put in place by them (or loosened by them) to start with, and that Labour carried on with the same lax regualtion, I think it's fair to conclude that the Tories would have been as bad or worse. I also think that many of the things Labour did that have slowly made things turn round, were opposed by the tories - from nationalising N. Rock and B&B to increasing Gov't spending to fill the gap caused by loss of private spending.

There's a huge amount the current Gov't have got wrong, for sure, but I can see no evidence that Tory policy will make things better, and a great deal that will make it worse when they do get in.

Where is the money going to come from to pay for the reversal of the NI rise? From unspecified cuts. Cuts = job losses = more unemployed = more social security bills, more repossesions, more poverty and worse services. Still it if keeps the fat cats hapy....