Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #2

[bickster]

Yep I agree with that too Blandy, as incompetant as Gordo has been, the Blue party would have been worse

[tonyh29]

is that everything the tories said and did at the time it was going on would have made things worse

that's a tad misleading tbh ... nobody really understood the problem at the time .. if you take the NI reversal , when it was announced the financial papers called it a bad idea ..now it is being backed as a good idea ... despite as you correctly point out questions on how we pay for it .

If we take NR as an example the Government hesitated so long on Northern Rock that they made the issue worse than it needed to be , so the tory reaction "may" have been wrong but had it been implemented quickly and decisively it may still have ended in a better outcome ... all one can really do is speculate and peddle opinions ..

Ultimately the Government ( and not just ours) didn't know what to do , a lot of what they tried didn't work and and so they made it up as they went along ...So even had the tory plans not worked there is nothing to suggest that they wouldn't also have made it up as they went along rather than ploughing on regardless

However if we look at an event like Black Wednesday the British economy came out stronger so the tories and their policies during a financial disaster do have a track record of being correct

[tonyh29]

as incompetant as Gordo has been, the Blue party would have been worse

evidence to back this up ?

[Chindie]

The Blue party apparently decided to start their campaign proper in Birmingham. That's nice.

[Jon]

I wish to subscribe to Mr Bland's political newsletter, as he has it spot on IMO. :nod:

[bickster]

The Blue party apparently decided to start their campaign proper in Birmingham. That's nice.

Yes and as we all know blue + Birmingham = shit

And that most definitely is the law

And to answer Tony - Experience

[Risso]

... I don't think any other party or leader would have been so spectacularly incompetent as Labour and Brown have been.

I do. I actually believe the tories would have been even worse.

My understanding, which I guess is limited to reading analysis in finacial pages of various papers, is that everything the tories said and did at the time it was going on would have made things worse. Given the regulations were put in place by them (or loosened by them) to start with, and that Labour carried on with the same lax regualtion, I think it's fair to conclude that the Tories would have been as bad or worse. I also think that many of the things Labour did that have slowly made things turn round, were opposed by the tories - from nationalising N. Rock and B&B to increasing Gov't spending to fill the gap caused by loss of private spending.

There's a huge amount the current Gov't have got wrong, for sure, but I can see no evidence that Tory policy will make things better, and a great deal that will make it worse when they do get in.

Where is the money going to come from to pay for the reversal of the NI rise? From unspecified cuts. Cuts = job losses = more unemployed = more social security bills, more repossesions, more poverty and worse services. Still it if keeps the fat cats hapy....

Nobody said that it was going to be easy putting right the total **** up that Brown has made.

And while the Tories may have started the ball rolling on deregulation, it was Brown who took away the Bank of England's power to rein in the banks, and that was a huge factor in the mess to come. We're also talking about a man who couldn't even work out that cutting the 10% tax band would affect the least well off worker to a higher degree. A complete and utter buffoon. The sooner he's sent packing the better, I don't much care what comes after, because it honestly couldn't be any worse than under that fecking eejit.

[blandy]

...The sooner he's sent packing the better, I don't much care what comes after, because it honestly couldn't be any worse than under that fecking eejit.

I know what you mean, but I think it could be worse. I have absolutely no enthusiasm, or positive feeling for Brown, Blair, Darling and the rest, let alone the pygmies below them.

I have even more revulsion for the Tories. This comes from several sources

1. Thatcher, the evil **** witch.

2. Twunts like Osborne & the runty one who keeps coming on the telly but is just a male hazel Blears - Gove is it? The sort who try and explain how cutting inheritance tax and NI is a good idea right now. It isn't, and they know it isn't, but they say it to get votes.

3. Ashcroft, the overseas exile, for tax purposes, buying or trying to buy, marginal seats, while lying about his tax status.

4. I know what they'll do to my job. They'll have me on the dole. "Buy American."

4.

[tonyh29]

and NI is a good idea right now. It isn't, and they know it isn't

and yet it appears that most major industry leaders say it IS a good idea to cut NI right now

out of interest if you don't vote and someone like the BNP win in your town , how will you feel .. not that they are likely to win by one vote of course but just in a general sense ....

If you feel a tory government will be the end of your job then fair enough that's a reasoned thought , but to not vote for them because of a dislike of Thatcher is a little bit blinkered in my opinion .. you were (possibly) one of the ones on the other forum who thought i was being daft to stop supporting Villa when we signed Heskey ..but isn't it kinda the same thing ?

[Risso]

Well, Heskey wasn't to blame for decimating the UK ship building industry, but then Thatch wasn't incredibly inept in the penalty area for Villa. It's a tough one.

[drat01]

and yet it appears that most major industry leaders say it IS a good idea to cut NI right now

I have been waiting for that one Tony

OK so lets look at some of these so called leaders - well considering that there were some serious backers of the Tory party in that lot the door has been opened and credibility is now leaving. Add to that the funding for the Tory (non) alternative will certainly be a increase in VAT which will affect all aspects of the UK but surprisingly not these so called non-political industrialists.

It was a marketing ploy by the Tory party that really should have been left on the shelf.

[Chindie]

Briefly off the Tory bashing for a moment, quick question.

I don't think I'll be in Birmingham for the election, and I'm not registered/don't want to be registered to vote in Aber, what's the options to get a Birmingham vote?

[drat01]

but to not vote for them because of a dislike of Thatcher is a little bit blinkered in my opinion .

why? when there are a significant majority in that party that still follow her warped and vengeful ideologies - including some of the leading people in the party - then association with her and a good idea of what they would bring is a good reason to never vote for them.

The Tory party machine of today is so much like the party of the early days of Thatcher. From the Ashcroft non-tax paying funding of the Satchi ads and their "others shit" messaging through to the stage managed press conferences of this morning where we had to have the token black people at the front of shot. Interesting to see that the "gay vote" (whatever that is) is very anti-Tory apparently as again they show their true colours.

I wonder what Hannan had to accept to keep quiet during this election?

[drat01]

Briefly off the Tory bashing for a moment, quick question.

I don't think I'll be in Birmingham for the election, and I'm not registered/don't want to be registered to vote in Aber, what's the options to get a Birmingham vote?

http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_4017654

or become a tax exile :-)

[tonyh29]

when there are a significant majority in that party that still follow her warped and vengeful ideologies

on that basis i assume you didn't vote for Blair ?

well considering that there were some serious backers of the Tory party in that

including Labour backer and donator richard Branson .. in fact it's reported in the Guardian as "Former Labour donors and members of Gordon Brown's own business council are latest to back Tories on scrapping tax hike" and even goes on to name some of them ..

oh well , lets carry on blaming thatcher .....

[drat01]

The Tory party are not even scrapping the changes though - more spin and waffle from them. For the average man in the street it will be a lot less of an outlay than what the Tory party and raise in VAT will bring. The people to benefit? .......... the rich and big business - go figure

[tonyh29]

raise in VAT will bring

can you point me to where the tory party have said they will raise VAT .....

last time I looked Ed Balls scaremongering didn't = Tory party policy ..

[drat01]

How will they pay for their policy then Tony? Gideon failed to answer that question and they will increase VAT to 20% - all are saying that is the only way that they can afford their "friends" tax

P.S. and in the true spirit of VT politics threads I am sticking my tongue out at Tony while I write this :-)

[blandy]

and NI is a good idea right now. It isn't, and they know it isn't

and yet it appears that most major industry leaders say it IS a good idea to cut NI right now

out of interest if you don't vote and someone like the BNP win in your town , how will you feel .. not that they are likely to win by one vote of course but just in a general sense ....

If you feel a tory government will be the end of your job then fair enough that's a reasoned thought , but to not vote for them because of a dislike of Thatcher is a little bit blinkered in my opinion .. you were (possibly) one of the ones on the other forum who thought i was being daft to stop supporting Villa when we signed Heskey ..but isn't it kinda the same thing ?

To answer

1. The BNP won't win where I am. If they stand, which I doubt, then I will vote against them. I will go to the voting station, and will put a mark on the paper.

2. On NI rise reversal. I don't know where the "majority" assertion comes from, but you may be right. If you ask most people would you personally (or your compnay) like

a) a tax rise

or

a tax cut

I think I can guess what answer you'll get.

Whether what's seen as best for them or their companies is necessarily best for the Country, given that it will have to be funder by cutbacks elsewhere is another matter.

Re comparison of the Witch and Heskey - it's ridiculous to compare them.

One plays football, and whether you think he's good bad or indifferent, his selection (or not) in the team is someone else's responsibility and judgement.

Thatcher on the other hand was personally responsible for decisions and actions that were overwhelmingly bad (and few good ones).

The types of views she held and holds are totally at odds with my own. She remains revered by many Tory voters, MPs and Candidates. A party that holds her "values" in any kind of esteem will never ever get my vote.

[markavfc40]

Thatcher on the other hand was personally responsible for decisions and actions that were overwhelmingly bad (and few good ones).

The types of views she held and holds are totally at odds with my own. She remains revered by many Tory voters, MPs and Candidates. A party that holds her "values" in any kind of esteem will never ever get my vote.

Fully agree with what Pete says above.

This is one of the main reasons that me and mine will never vote for the Tory party.