Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #2

[meregreen]

The recession was worldwide

This simply isn't true, it is a lie, plenty of countries did not enter into recession. Australia being one prime example. And Gordo's policies and decisioms, certainly contributed to the recession, as one of the THE big worldwide financial centres our influence was far and wide and as Mr Brown was the one responsible for implementing a regulatory body with a pair of false teeth that had flushed down the bog, yes we were hugely responsible, probably second behind the USA in terms of culpability

The term Worldwide recession is a myth, one perpetuated by those with a vested interest

USA,Uk,Germany,Japan,France,and many more were in a recession .You say Australia wasn't affected, fair enough. It would however seem all the MAJOR economies were. To most people that could legitimately be classed as worldwide.The point is the recession was not caused by Gordon Brown, only those with a vested interest could perpetuate that myth.

[TrentVilla]

The recession was worldwide

This simply isn't true, it is a lie, plenty of countries did not enter into recession. Australia being one prime example. And Gordo's policies and decisioms, certainly contributed to the recession, as one of the THE big worldwide financial centres our influence was far and wide and as Mr Brown was the one responsible for implementing a regulatory body with a pair of false teeth that had flushed down the bog, yes we were hugely responsible, probably second behind the USA in terms of culpability

The term Worldwide recession is a myth, one perpetuated by those with a vested interest

While I agree it wasn't quite worldwide the recession did hit the majority of the worlds largest economies.

You are right that Australia avoided entering recession but that isn't the full picture they were extremely close to entering recession and have been affected by the recession although obviously not to the same extent due to the far small financial sector.

The Australian economy has unexpectedly avoided falling into recession after its economy grew by 0.4% in the first three months of 2009.

Increased exports and consumer spending helped the economy to rebound from the 0.5% contraction recorded between October and December last year.

Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said the country was now the only advanced economy not in recession.

An economy is said to be in recession after two straight quarters of decline.

Stimulus moves

To help avoid the country falling in recession, the Australian central bank cut interest rates to a 45-year low of 3.25% in February.

We have technically avoided recession, but if you look at the details in the data it is not a pretty picture

JP Morgan economist Helen Kevans

The government also introduced a number of multi-billion dollar stimulus packages, including increased infrastructure spending and cash handouts to most Australians since the end of last year to lift consumer spending.

Despite the economic growth in the first quarter of the year, Mr Rudd said Australia remained at risk of recession.

"We're not out of the woods yet, we've got a long way to go," he said.

Analysts agreed that the risk of recession remained as 2009 continues.

"We have technically avoided recession, but if you look at the details in the data it is not a pretty picture," said Australian-based JP Morgan economist Helen Kevans.

"We have imports falling off a cliff, which is a symptom of firms smashing investment and which is bad for our employment outlook."

Here

[Ads]

The recession was worldwide, do you believe Labour created a worldwide slump.

No. I believe Labours reckless and incompetent mismanagement of the economy contributed to our major recession.

I think only a fool would trust them to (mis-) manage it again after they’ve failed so spectrally and with such disastrous consequences for millions of people across this country.

[drat01]

The recession was worldwide, do you believe Labour created a worldwide slump.

No. I believe Labours reckless and incompetent mismanagement of the economy contributed to our major recession.

I think only a fool would trust them to (mis-) manage it again after they’ve failed so spectrally and with such disastrous consequences for millions of people across this country.

Of course the recession - albeit a worldwide one - is Labour's fault an of course Gideon would have dealt with it so much better - hilarious!

[drat01]

The term Worldwide recession is a myth, one perpetuated by those with a vested interest

Rubbish - the economy of every country is so interlinked that this was a world wide recession. The impacts are there for all to see except those that are too blinkered to see past their particular hatred of one political party and the crave for power

[Gringo]

The term Worldwide recession is a myth, one perpetuated by those with a vested interest

Rubbish - the economy of every country is so interlinked that this was a world wide recession. The impacts are there for all to see except those that are too blinkered to see past their particular hatred of one political party and the crave for power

Yes, it was (virtually) a world wide recession and the reason because that is because the economies are so interlinked.

However if you look at the dominoes that fell, northern rock, bear sterns, lehman and AIG - 2 of these failed under US jurisdiction and the other two under UK regulation. Northern rock can be trade back to the demutualisation that thatch brought and in nulab retained and failed to regulate - and lehman's due to a failure in regulation of the UK markets - they did the deals in the UK that the US wouldn't allow. The other major economies were hit by the waves created by these four dominoes landing in the shit.

Would the tories have done anything different? Nah. They cliam the triparte regulation was at fault - but not really - policy that drove those regulating bodies was pointed towrds the ponzi scheme that was / is the engine house of the market led economy - the sort of policies the tories would have played along with or extended further.

[Awol]

The term Worldwide recession is a myth, one perpetuated by those with a vested interest

Rubbish - the economy of every country is so interlinked that this was a world wide recession. The impacts are there for all to see except those that are too blinkered to see past their particular hatred of one political party and the crave for power

It was a global recession in that sense that it involved more countries than it didn't, much like a world war. However our financial centre was one of two internationally that drove the world off a cliff. I'm afraid it is you wearing the blinkers mate and this can be shown by observing a few simple points:

1)During the 1997-2007 boom years the Government consistently spent more than it took in in tax revenues, saving nothing and borrowing to fund the gap. So, when the shit hit the fan the man who bragged he'd "abolished boom and bust" had left the country woefully unprepared in terms or Treasury reserves. This can be understood once you realise he actually believed that he'd abolished the economic cycle. This is also the man some people on this thread want to continue as Prime Minister.

2)The then Chancellor and now Prime Minister put his own system of financial regulation in to supervise the banking sector and it comprehensively failed. That led to reckless behaviour by banks (egged on by No. 11 for ever greater tax receipts) and resulted in the 'global' financial meltdown we have suffered under since.

3)Brown did not directly cause the recession but he is certainly culpable for it's severity and the resulting debt mountain that threatens our economic recovery. Worse, it will result in the gutting of public service budgets in order to get both debt and deficit back to a credible (for the markets and money lenders) and manageable (for the taxpayer) level.

Setting aside the staggering waste and (non)job creation schemes in the public sector, much good work was done between 1997-2004/5 in improving the public services. Basically all of that will be undone now because old Prudence discovered a taste for spendaholism that we, UK Plc, will have to pick up the tab for.

That is not a party political point of view, it is simply an observation of the basic facts.

[meregreen]

The term Worldwide recession is a myth, one perpetuated by those with a vested interest

Rubbish - the economy of every country is so interlinked that this was a world wide recession. The impacts are there for all to see except those that are too blinkered to see past their particular hatred of one political party and the crave for power

It was a global recession in that sense that it involved more countries than it didn't, much like a world war. However our financial centre was one of two internationally that drove the world off a cliff. I'm afraid it is you wearing the blinkers mate and this can be shown by observing a few simple points:

1)During the 1997-2007 boom years the Government consistently spent more than it took in in tax revenues, saving nothing and borrowing to fund the gap. So, when the shit hit the fan the man who bragged he'd "abolished boom and bust" had left the country woefully unprepared in terms or Treasury reserves. This can be understood once you realise he actually believed that he'd abolished the economic cycle. This is also the man some people on this thread want to continue as Prime Minister.

2)The then Chancellor and now Prime Minister put his own system of financial regulation in to supervise the banking sector and it comprehensively failed. That led to reckless behaviour by banks (egged on by No. 11 for ever greater tax receipts) and resulted in the 'global' financial meltdown we have suffered under since.

3)Brown did not directly cause the recession but he is certainly culpable for it's severity and the resulting debt mountain that threatens our economic recovery. Worse, it will result in the gutting of public service budgets in order to get both debt and deficit back to a credible (for the markets and money lenders) and manageable (for the taxpayer) level.

Setting aside the staggering waste and (non)job creation schemes in the public sector, much good work was done between 1997-2004/5 in improving the public services. Basically all of that will be undone now because old Prudence discovered a taste for spendaholism that we, UK Plc, will have to pick up the tab for.

That is not a party political point of view, it is simply an observation of the basic facts.

EVERY government spends more than it receives in taxes. The Tories actually borrowed even more than Labour prior to this recession due to the immense economic destruction they caused. And that one was not worlwide.

Most of the deregulation in this country was instigated by Thatcher.The global financial meltdown was primarily caused by American toxic debts being traded worldwide and subsequently being picked up by amongst others, UK banks. Do you really believe the Tories would have dared regulate their cronies in the city of London.

Whatever the causes of the recession, which thankfully we now seem to be slowly coming out of. I have no doubt that the traditional Tory washing of their hands and leaving it to the market philosophy, would have resulted in a far worse state of affairs .

.Incidentally in both World Wars there were more non combatant nations than those fighting. This opinion of course is based on facts not assumptions.

[snowychap]

Do you really believe the Tories would have dared regulate their cronies in the city of London.

No, just as Labour didn't dare regulate their (new-found) cronies in the City of London.

[tonyh29]

Do you really believe the Tories would have dared regulate their cronies in the city of London.

that would the tory Cronies in the city who Labour gave eight knighthoods, seven CBEs, four OBEs and four MBEs to ? not to mention the 7 life peers ...it's well documented that Gordon Brown spent years cosying up to the bankers so it's kinda laughable to hear labourites using the word crony about the city

Brown did not directly cause the recession but he is certainly culpable for it's severity

In 2007 Brown gave a speech to the City,where he claimed bankers had forged an ‘era that history will record as the beginning of a new golden age for the City of London .... don't suppose Gordon will be trying to do a vince anytime soon and falsely claim to have predicted it all

i saw in the paper on Thursday that documents relating to Browns mis-selling of our gold reserves have finally been deregulatednow and shows how he went against the advice of the bank of England and the experts... the clues about his control freak personality were there years ago if people chose to look

[Gringo]

i saw in the paper on Thursday that documents relating to Browns mis-selling of our gold reserves have finally been deregulatednow and shows how he went against the advice of the bank of England and the experts... the clues about his control freak personality were there years ago if people chose to look

Brown's Bottom

All a conspiracy between the chancellor, BoE, the Fed, AIG, Rothschilds and others according to that report.

[Chindie]

Well, seems tomorrow is the starting pistol for the race proper.

I'm wondering how farcical this'll become.

[Mantis]

The prospect of a hung parliament is dangerously high, and here I was thinking the Tories had it in the bag.

[Chindie]

I wouldn't worry too much, the Tories will probably still win (imo). Which is pretty worrying in itself.

[Mantis]

I wouldn't worry too much, the Tories will probably still win (imo). Which is pretty worrying in itself.

Worrying how?

I know I can't exactly give an unbiased view here, but even when I look at it from a "they're all as bad as each other" perspective, the Conservatives still look like the lesser evil after what Labour have done over the past 13 years.

[Chindie]

I'm not terribly enamoured with the Conservative ideal.

They are still streaked with the essence of Thatcher imo. Which is no good thing.

I don't like Labour either (or any party really), but at the bottom of the main 3 is the blue party. Their policies have seemingly still not really been decided. They've been given an easy ride because (as they've built a platform from recently) 'Labour are shit'.

To put what you've said there in perspective, to my mind, had we had a genuine Conservative party in power these last 13 years, we'd still be in the same mess. They'd have done the same things. Maybe worse.

You're voting for a personality and a colour imo. With the added echoes of the Iron Lady in this case. Which worries me.

(We've had this before and if you do like the Tories, sorry, it's just the way I feel about them)

[Awol]

Incidentally in both World Wars there were more non combatant nations than those fighting. This opinion of course is based on facts not assumptions.

Quite right, so it was no more a world war than a global recession, more of a sloppy label. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Awol]

Teachers join civil servants in strike threat against spending cuts

The prospect of co-ordinated strikes across the public sector moved closer yesterday when two big unions agreed to joint industrial action to resist spending cuts.

The National Union of Teachers voted to combine forces with the biggest civil service union to hold simultaneous strike ballots if pay is frozen or pensions and working conditions are cut. Such walkouts could extend from schools and benefit centres to hospitals, town halls, universities and other public services. Both unions urged the TUC yesterday to mobilise workers.

Delegates at the NUT conference chanted “the workers, united, will never be defeated”, fists raised, during a standing ovation for the call by Mark Serwotka, the left-wing general secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union, for co-ordinated action across the public sector.

“Our message to the politicians should be simple,” Mr Serwotka told the NUT. “If you’re coming for our jobs, our pensions, our services and our education, we are going to stand together and we are going to defend them. And we are going to take united industrial action as a last resort, if we have to, because we know it’s the best way of defending ourselves.”

Brendan Barber, General Secretary of the TUC, recently warned of the real risks of widespread industrial action if there were deep cuts in public spending that affected vital services.

Yesterday Mr Serwotka was applauded loudly when he declared: “If you judge a government by how it behaves as an employer, this is the worst Government in the history of this country.”

He urged unions to repeat a campaign of five years ago when they combined to make the Government retreat over plans to cut pension schemes.

The NUT conference, in Liverpool, passed a resolution backing “a co-ordinated campaign of action, up to and including strike action where needed, to oppose pay freezes, threats to pensions and cuts to services”.

In a series of militant speeches, delegates spoke of an “onslaught” of cuts ahead across the public sector. Alex Kenny, of the NUT’s executive, said: “We are going to have to strain every sinew to defend our pay, our pensions, our jobs, working conditions and the services we provide.”

Pledges by Ed Balls, the Schools Secretary, to protect “frontline services” were not enough, he said. “We stand shoulder to shoulder with those unions like Unite, PCS, UCU [the University and College Union] and the RMT who are seeking to defend their jobs, their conditions and services. Battle lines are being drawn and, I think it may be an unpopular word, but they are being drawn on class lines. We have to know which side of that line we are on.”

Iain Hale, a delegate from Newham, East London, declared: “When they come for our pensions — and they will, have no doubt — it is not just us. We will stand with our sisters and brothers in the public sector unions, and when we take action we will take it together.”

The private sector have swallowed job cuts, pay freezes/reductions, lower hours etc in order to keep their companies afloat, but the public sector still think they are special and immune from economic reality.

As many predicted it looks like the a summer of fun with the unions is on the way.

[drat01]

Jon you are showing your True Blue bias there - to think that Teaching and Education are in some a "company" is so wrong on many counts

I suppose those who pay millions for private education at places like Eton may agree with you though

[bickster]

The recession was worldwide

This simply isn't true, it is a lie, plenty of countries did not enter into recession. Australia being one prime example. And Gordo's policies and decisioms, certainly contributed to the recession, as one of the THE big worldwide financial centres our influence was far and wide and as Mr Brown was the one responsible for implementing a regulatory body with a pair of false teeth that had flushed down the bog, yes we were hugely responsible, probably second behind the USA in terms of culpability

The term Worldwide recession is a myth, one perpetuated by those with a vested interest

USA,Uk,Germany,Japan,France,and many more were in a recession .You say Australia wasn't affected, fair enough. It would however seem all the MAJOR economies were. To most people that could legitimately be classed as worldwide.The point is the recession was not caused by Gordon Brown, only those with a vested interest could perpetuate that myth.

a) You seemed to leap from contribute to cause in one great leap

I have no vested interest, as many in this forum, who have read my posts over the years will agree, I support niether the red or the blue tory party, nor the orange party of desperation.

So please do me the favour of reading what I wrote (and those of other posters thast followed), you might realise that what I posted was fairly accurate. Only 2 countries, who were really responible for allowing the conditions that caused the recession, Brown as Chancellor was the one responsible in this country for the direction the FSA took. Its not supposition.