Dr_Pangloss Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 1 hour ago, bobzy said: I don't know enough about mma, but are "boxers" in there or not (I know there's a few wrestlers etc)? If so, how do they generally fare? Firstly, no 'world class' boxer, i.e. world title level, pretty much in their prime, has ever gone into UFC (or equivalent) to compete, so it's hard to answer. Some many have a 'boxing background' but would also have to learn wrestlign and jiu jitsu techniques to be anywhere near competitive. Of the boxers I've heard of who have tried they have all been massively over the hill. That said a 47 odd year old Ray Mercer knocked Tim Sylvia out cold, Sylvia had been the UFC Heavyweight Champ a couple of years prior, but I think was accepted that he was out of his prime and he did the stupid thing of standing in front of Mercer. Another example is a legit. great boxer in James Toney fighting Randy Corture. Toney was old and shot, and got submitted in the first round I believe. Bottom line is that any pure boxer without training in other martial arts will have virtually no chance in MMA, unless their opponent is stupid enough to stand and make it a fist fight. Throw lots of leg and head kicks at a boxer and they won't know how to defend them, get the boxer on the floor and they will not have a clue what to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 15, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2017 There have been MMA fighters with a boxing 'base' skillset, who punch like a boxer would, who have had varying success. I don't think any have taken things by storm though. The problem is you can't fight in MMA as a pure boxer so you have to diversify your skills, so you end up being a jack of all trades. There are few styles that can be a dominant base in MMA, but boxing isn't one of them. Someone walking into the octagon with the intention to fight like Mike Tyson is effectively walking in hoping their opponent is a moron and that they get a lucky punch. It's not a particularly useful base either, as it gives you little basis for other styles (nothing on kicks, nothing on non-fist striking, nothing on wrestling, nothing on submissions, or defence against any of those things really...). A boxer is immediately at a disadvantage against more or less any other base skill. Hence the better boxers in MMA usually actually have backgrounds in other martial arts and do some boxing training to boost some of their striking ability. The reverse of course is also true. A good pro boxer in a boxing match with a pro MMA fighter would expect to win fairly handily, because their opponent is reduced in their available skills and is basically again relying on the lucky punch or hoping they fight stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 4 hours ago, bobzy said: I don't know enough about mma, but are "boxers" in there or not (I know there's a few wrestlers etc)? If so, how do they generally fare? Brock lesnar in his first fight got beaten bad in mma. Cm punk was humiliated by Mickey gall in his first fight. Boxers stand no chance in a mma fight. Mayweather is not stupid he knows he would killed in a mma fight hence why it's a boxing match which he will win comfortably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 well from one circus act to another who's willing to shell out £18 for Jr vs AA tonight? It's a shame that the Eubanks are running Jr's career the way that they are because this is actually a good fight, Arthur Abraham has been a tough old dude for a long time, he's always been easy to write off but he somehow manages to pull something out of the bag, yeah he's boring to watch, he keeps the ear muffs on for 2 minutes and 30 seconds and tries to push the last 30 seconds to win the round. He's had a brilliant career and his record is great but he's 37 or 38 now isn't he. I hope he still has enough in the tank to cause Jr some problems (hell I'd love to see him win) but I just think that Jr will wear him down with the volumes that he will be throwing and AA and even though Abraham doesn't get stopped almost as a rule I can see the ref being quick to stop it in the mid to late rounds. Absolutely no way in the world it is PPV worthy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, leemond2008 said: well from one circus act to another who's willing to shell out £18 for Jr vs AA tonight? It's a shame that the Eubanks are running Jr's career the way that they are because this is actually a good fight, Arthur Abraham has been a tough old dude for a long time, he's always been easy to write off but he somehow manages to pull something out of the bag, yeah he's boring to watch, he keeps the ear muffs on for 2 minutes and 30 seconds and tries to push the last 30 seconds to win the round. He's had a brilliant career and his record is great but he's 37 or 38 now isn't he. I hope he still has enough in the tank to cause Jr some problems (hell I'd love to see him win) but I just think that Jr will wear him down with the volumes that he will be throwing and AA and even though Abraham doesn't get stopped almost as a rule I can see the ref being quick to stop it in the mid to late rounds. Absolutely no way in the world it is PPV worthy though. Never rated AA at super middle weight TBH, he was better at Middleweight in terms of his power. I expect Eubank to stop him, AA was recently struggling with Paul Smith a couple of fights ago. As you point out, AA has been extremely tough, boxed multiple rounds against Edison Miranda with a broken jaw, it was literally hanging wide open, and he was getting hit on it, but still won the fight. But at this stage he's a bit of a shell, I don't think he'll deal with the combination of the hostile crowd and Eubank's aggression, being much younger and physically stronger, I expect him to impose his will on AA. At 38 AA won't want much of that and can see him retiring on his stool or as you say, the ref jumping in after him not really throwing back. No way is this worth £18 though! Edited July 15, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 41 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Never rated AA at super middle weight TBH, he was better at Middleweight in terms of his power. I expect Eubank to stop him, AA was recently struggling with Paul Smith a couple of fights ago. As you point out, AA has been extremely tough, boxed multiple rounds against Edison Miranda with a broken jaw, it was literally hanging wide open, and he was getting hit on it, but still won the fight. But at this stage he's a bit of a shell, I don't think he'll deal with the combination of the hostile crowd and Eubank's aggression, being much younger and physically stronger, I expect him to impose his will on AA. At 38 AA won't want much of that and can see him retiring on his stool or as you say, the ref jumping in after him not really throwing back. No way is this worth £18 though! If I remember correctly wasn't there a pretty strong argument for Smith winning the first fight, the Miranda fight has made AA a bit of a legend with fight fans hasn't it, extremely brave and stupid in equal measure. I've gotta be honest, I thought that AA was pretty well traveled but nearly all of his fights have been in Germany, he's fought in America 4 times, Helsinki and Switzerland so maybe the crows could get to him, I doubt he'd hear anything with his muffs on for the majority of the fight though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 17 minutes ago, leemond2008 said: If I remember correctly wasn't there a pretty strong argument for Smith winning the first fight, the Miranda fight has made AA a bit of a legend with fight fans hasn't it, extremely brave and stupid in equal measure. I've gotta be honest, I thought that AA was pretty well traveled but nearly all of his fights have been in Germany, he's fought in America 4 times, Helsinki and Switzerland so maybe the crows could get to him, I doubt he'd hear anything with his muffs on for the majority of the fight though. I'd also say that the peak-a-boo style will suit Eubank's combinations, he likes to wing punches and throw uppercuts, the uppercut will be the punch for him, a combination of hooks will unsettle the guard and if he follows with the uppercut AA should have no defence for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Oh yeah I forgot to mention as well that AA missed weight as well didn't he, I think he was 2lb over and he managed to make weight on the third attempt, Jr came in at 11st 13lbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 What time is the main event scheduled for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Do you have to be morbidly obese to be a boxing referee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 35 minutes ago, Genie said: What time is the main event scheduled for? 10.30 apparently 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 This must be the worst undercard in the history of PPVs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 30 minutes ago, West said: This must be the worst paid ppv in the history of PPVs Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Abraham is one tough sod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Fight went exactly as predicted other than the stoppage, the ref had a good look a few times but AA was never overly hurt. Jr threw the volumes expected, AA kept his guard high for 90% of the fight, Jr landing uppercut after uppercut etc unfortunately for Jr without getting a stoppage it still doesn't tell us much about him, he basically beat up a 40 year old bloke who as Dr P stated was at his best in the lower weight class. I still think that Groves smashes Jr, I still think he is easy to hit and his power is overrated. I thought it was stupid when they asked Groves how he rated Jr's performance out of 10 whilst Jr was standing there, Jr interrupted and said 'you can't ask him that, he's my next opponent he's gotta say 1 out of 10' he laughed and walked away, afterwards they didn't even give Groves the chance to answer and cut him off and said they would come back to him in a few minutes, Groves looked mightily pissed off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 Yes, Jr did what I expected minus the stoppage, which was a function of both Abraham's chin and Eubank's lack of power. He did quite well, and showed he belongs at a good level. I do see someone like Groves stopping him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggyrichard Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Canelo will beat GGG imo (I hope), they both have awesome power and aggressive with it! But anyone who has the balls and skill to turn pro at 15 years old deserves a monster amount of credit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 minute ago, wiggyrichard said: Canelo will beat GGG imo (I hope), they both have awesome power and aggressive with it! But anyone who has the balls and skill to turn pro at 15 years old deserves a monster amount of credit!! why on earth would you want Canelo to beat GGG? yeah he turned pro at 15 but the Mexicans are famous for that, he fought absolute bums until he was on (I could be wrong) a Mayweather undercard. and he has been fighting at 'Canelo weight' for how long? how the **** can you be a middleweight champion without ever fighting at the weight? how can you say (I'm pretty sure Oscar said this) that he isn't big enough to fight GGG at middleweight to try and justify a fight with Liam Smith only to go and fight Chavez Jr at a higher weight? and then when Danny Jacobs misses weight (by the IBO standards) and inflates to the hulk overnight and takes him the distance and puts in an impressive performance and all of a sudden Ginger pubes makes the fight. **** Canelo, I have followed him from the start and I was a big fan of him, after the Mayweather fight he took some difficult opponents and then decided that he could fight in his own Canelo weight class, **** canelo and **** canelo weight, I hope GGG destroys him. And I think he will, GGG is a master at cutting off the ring and for as much as I rate Canelo's head and upper body movement GGG will find him because he is a bit of a plodder. having said that the one thing you can say is that GGG isn't a fan of body shots and that is something that Canelo loves . I'm backing, and hoping for GGG but it is a proper fight so I'm just happy its been made although it should have happened 12 moths ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggyrichard Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 23 minutes ago, leemond2008 said: having said that the one thing you can say is that GGG isn't a fan of body shots I think Matthew Macklin would disagree! I hear what your saying and agree GGG has fought whoever was 'next in line' where as Canelo maybe got blinded by the $$$, however as you say he has still fought and beat some decent opponents, I love both their styles (very similar) but for some reason have always been a Canelo fan, either way it's going to be a proper scrap!! Can't wait!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 1 minute ago, wiggyrichard said: I think Matthew Macklin would disagree! I hear what your saying and agree GGG has fought whoever was 'next in line' where as Canelo maybe got blinded by the $$$, however as you say he has still fought and beat some decent opponents, I love both their styles (very similar) but for some reason have always been a Canelo fan, either way it's going to be a proper scrap!! Can't wait!! When I say GGG isn't a fan of body shots I mean receiving not giving. I used to be a massive Canelo fan but when they (notice how I say 'they' and not Canelo) delayed the GGG fight in order to let it 'marinate' and then when they were given a time frame to get the fight done 'they' released a statement saying that 'they' would not be held to artificial deadlines, and then they went ahead and fought at canelo weight he's a sheister of the highest order and has allowed himself to be used as a money making puppet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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