mjmooney Posted February 8, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2018 37 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said: I suppose the vast majority of mine have been the same, like a plateau, though perhaps on an overall upward curve but what the hell, one internet point to you sir. To be fair, I'm from the generation that millennials hate. I grew up with a good working NHS, free (indeed, PAID) university education, jobs that paid reasonably and provided training, affordable housing, publically owned transport infrastructure and utiliities, etc. Not to mention England winning the World Cup, Villa champions of England and Europe, and the best music ever. Things change, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 8, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, mjmooney said: To be fair, I'm from the generation that millennials hate. I grew up with a good working NHS, free (indeed, PAID) university education, jobs that paid reasonably and provided training, affordable housing, publically owned transport infrastructure and utiliities, etc. Not to mention England winning the World Cup, Villa champions of England and Europe, and the best music ever. Things change, though. Unfortunately the same generation pulling the ladder up behind them. Not that the same could be said for yourself Mike, or all of that generation of course. But generally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 8, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, Chindie said: Unfortunately the same generation pulling the ladder up behind them. Not that the same could be said for yourself Mike, or all of that generation of course. But generally. Yes, that's true, I'm afraid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 53 minutes ago, mjmooney said: To be fair, I'm from the generation that millennials hate. I grew up with a good working NHS, free (indeed, PAID) university education, jobs that paid reasonably and provided training, affordable housing, publically owned transport infrastructure and utiliities, etc. Not to mention England winning the World Cup, Villa champions of England and Europe, and the best music ever. Things change, though. If you had posted that in the Brexit thread it would have been meet with much derision about harping back to the good old days But , in all seriousness , has there even been a good working NHS ? I'm 47 and it's been in the news for reasons similar to it is now , pretty much as long as I can remember , 70s saw increasing pressure to reduce the amount of money spent on public services , 80s saw more reforms which resulted in shorter waiting times ..but also caused a reduction in the quality of care for patients , 90's lead to even more reforms , but those reforms were botched leaving staff shortages ( think there was even a government apology ?) ..which lead to NHS direct which was also a bit of a cluster **** Maybe from the perspective you mention it , it should have been "Good but incompetently run " and has since developed into Good but hopelessly incompetently run ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: If you had posted that in the Brexit thread it would have been meet with much derision about harping back to the good old days But , in all seriousness , has there even been a good working NHS ? I'm 47 and it's been in the news for reasons similar to it is now , pretty much as long as I can remember , 70s saw increasing pressure to reduce the amount of money spent on public services , 80s saw more reforms which resulted in shorter waiting times ..but also caused a reduction in the quality of care for patients , 90's lead to even more reforms , but those reforms were botched leaving staff shortages ( think there was even a government apology ?) ..which lead to NHS direct which was also a bit of a cluster **** Maybe from the perspective you mention it , it should have been "Good but incompetently run " and has since developed into Good but hopelessly incompetently run ? The problem is the NHS is used as a political football every 4 or 5 years. I like the idea of having an NHS tax that is set by an independent body that is set for 10 years or so. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, mjmooney said: To be fair, I'm from the generation that millennials hate. I grew up with a good working NHS, free (indeed, PAID) university education, jobs that paid reasonably and provided training, affordable housing, publically owned transport infrastructure and utiliities, etc. Not to mention England winning the World Cup, Villa champions of England and Europe, and the best music ever. Things change, though. "We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at 12 o'clock at night and lick the road clean with our tongues" All python aside, for us 70's kids we're just products of Thatchers Britain. Fashioned in the forge with war and riots on the news in the age of advertising and privatisation, No free university education, Rising costs for healthcare and housing, MTV for company, Paedos on the telly, The post punk rise of new romanticism, Stock Aitken and Waterman, The Birdy song, The Frog Chorus and so on. Not to mention finishing 4th at Italia '90, Villa champions of all the league cup a couple of times and an intertoto cup. And I saw God play football at Villa Park. "But you try telling the young people today that ....... and they won't believe you. " 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 The NHS problem is that it cannot possibly 'win'. People used to die of same fairly mundane stuff, babies would quite often be born and then die. Then the mum would die. Now, we can keep them all alive until they die of something else. In the extra 10 or 50 years they're alive, they have gender realignment surgery, hernia operations, viagra and an epi pen. There is no budget that will fix the NHS. This doesn't mean that jeremyc hunt should treat staff and patients like the shit on his hand made italian shoe. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) The future of the nhs depends fully on the governments attitude towards funding and what is realistically expected from those funds and more importantly, the publics attitude, too many people take advantage of it and abuse it when they don’t need to, this costs money and time better spent elsewhere on more deserving people/matters. Pissed up and injured? You’ll get the help but it will cost you an £80 nuisance fine payable to the nhs. Self inflicted morbid obesity and in with respiratory problems or heart issues? You’ll get the help but you’ll pay for it. Even in my sector of mental health, way too many people bleeding the system, some clients have more disposable in a week than I get in a month working full time, not to mention lovely 1 bed flats rent free and these are able bodied people pulling the wool over the systems eyes and I turn harming those who have genuine mental health issues. The other thing I’d say is the gestapo nazis at the CQC, government lap dogs with no idea what happens on the front line but decide amongst themselves what we must do, what needs to happen and what we get paid. They have too much say and are often completely inept and wrong. Edited February 8, 2018 by Ingram85 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted February 8, 2018 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2018 I am very concerned about this concept of the 'deserving' and 'undeserving' sick. Who keeps the records of whether (and for how long) somebody smokes, or drinks, or fails to take exercise? What's the opposite of the 'nanny state'? The 'Victorian headmaster' state? Improve education and reduce poverty before you start tutting at the working class for their fecklessness. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 8, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2018 Some maladies being more worthy of treatment than others is a nightmare scenario that will just lead to more calls and justification to kill the NHS. The system is either free at point of use or it doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, mjmooney said: I am very concerned about this concept of the 'deserving' and 'undeserving' sick. Who keeps the records of whether (and for how long) somebody smokes, or drinks, or fails to take exercise? What's the opposite of the 'nanny state'? The 'Victorian headmaster' state? Improve education and reduce poverty before you start tutting at the working class for their fecklessness. What’s class got to do with it? If you’re proved to a burden on healthcare pressure, you should pay for it. People need a deterrent from wasting the nhs time, charging for self inflicted harm is entirely fair I believe. Especially getting too pissed and needing stomach pumping or attention for fighting injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Chindie said: Some maladies being more worthy of treatment than others is a nightmare scenario that will just lead to more calls and justification to kill the NHS. The system is either free at point of use or it doesn't exist. Then it won’t exist going forward. People should take responsibility for idiotic actions resulting in healthcare assistance. If it has to be done post incident and fines issued once guilty parties have been proven then so be it. There are too many people needlessly clogging up a free yet essential service, it’s not sustainable nor fair on nhs frontline staff. Edited February 8, 2018 by Ingram85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 8, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Ingram85 said: Then it won’t exist going forward. People should take responsibility for idiotic actions resulting in healthcare assistance. Who decides what an idiotic action is? What counts? Etc etc. It is free at point of use for everyone, or it dies. I'm not keen on the second option. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Then it dies. There is only so much us nhs staff can do. There is limited resources for an increasing population with increased pressure on it made worse by people taking the piss when accessing its care. It’s not sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 8, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2018 I sincerely hope some powerful people don't feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: What’s class got to do with it? If you’re proved to a burden on healthcare pressure, you should pay for it. People need a deterrent from wasting the nhs time, charging for self inflicted harm is entirely fair I believe. Especially getting too pissed and needing stomach pumping or attention for fighting injuries. What about suicide attempts? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: The future of the nhs depends fully on the governments attitude towards funding and what is realistically expected from those funds and more importantly, the publics attitude, too many people take advantage of it and abuse it when they don’t need to, this costs money and time better spent elsewhere on more deserving people/matters. Pissed up and injured? You’ll get the help but it will cost you an £80 nuisance fine payable to the nhs. Self inflicted morbid obesity and in with respiratory problems or heart issues? You’ll get the help but you’ll pay for it. Even in my sector of mental health, way too many people bleeding the system, some clients have more disposable in a week than I get in a month working full time, not to mention lovely 1 bed flats rent free and these are able bodied people pulling the wool over the systems eyes and I turn harming those who have genuine mental health issues. The other thing I’d say is the gestapo nazis at the CQC, government lap dogs with no idea what happens on the front line but decide amongst themselves what we must do, what needs to happen and what we get paid. They have too much say and are often completely inept and wrong. So, I haven't had a drink since Christmas, But apparently, if I go out this weekend and have 4 pints and some dickwad pushes me over the kerb and I turn an ankle I get charged £80? Ridiculous tory idea. Poorly raised and abused as a child, poorly educated, poorly treated by the system. The only comfort is pizza deliveries from the safety of your home. Now you're obese, so you can pay for your own treatment you scum loser. Constantly angry at the world so getting a bit depressed rather than teaching yourself wellness? Pay for some chill out meds you're just rubbish at life. Whilst I'm at it, if you fall out of a tree you didn't have to climb, £75.50 Car accident when there was public transport available, public flogging. Dodgy knees due to playing amateur football, build yourself a wheelchair, sponger. Shitty public service job because you weren't great in that shitty comp school you're laughably average parents happened to live close to. Suck it up, bottom feeder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: So, I haven't had a drink since Christmas, But apparently, if I go out this weekend and have 4 pints and some dickwad pushes me over the kerb and I turn an ankle I get charged £80? Ridiculous tory idea. Poorly raised and abused as a child, poorly educated, poorly treated by the system. The only comfort is pizza deliveries from the safety of your home. Now you're obese, so you can pay for your own treatment you scum loser. Constantly angry at the world so getting a bit depressed rather than teaching yourself wellness? Pay for some chill out meds you're just rubbish at life. Whilst I'm at it, if you fall out of a tree you didn't have to climb, £75.50 Car accident when there was public transport available, public flogging. Dodgy knees due to playing amateur football, build yourself a wheelchair, sponger. Shitty public service job because you weren't great in that shitty comp school you're laughably average parents happened to live close to. Suck it up, bottom feeder. Completely misrepresenting what I said there a bit me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted February 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Dodgy knees due to playing amateur football, build yourself a wheelchair, sponger. He calls himself "Dick" now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: What about suicide attempts? Where did I say that? Don’t think I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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