Premier League Spurs - Arry's gone but we still dislike them...

[kurtsimonw]

One of my best mates is a Spurs fan, he's the only one I really know. He certainly doesn't. I think they tend to over-rate their players an awful lot (King, Woodgate, Huddlestone and Lennon are the worst for it) and they always think they're going to be challenging the top 4 (To be fair, if any clubs spends the kind of money that Spurs do, I'm sure their fans would be thinking the same), but I have never heard them say they're on par with Arsenal or anything.

[SimplySpurfect]

And just because Villa faded badly during the latter part of last season, doesn't mean it's going to happen to Spurs. There's absolutely no reason to think that we're suddenly going to decline.

I don't disagree with the rest of what you've said, but this annoys me a little with Spurs fans. They always seems to think that nothing can happen to them to make them go on a bad run or anything. There's nothing to suggest you'll slip down the table, no, but there's nothing to suggest you will stay there either.

That's not really true. Spurs fans in general (if you read on Spurs forums anyway) are constantly looking at the next few fixtures to see where our run is gonna end.

My post perhaps wasn't very indicitive of that, but that comment was purely to counteract someone saying we're definitely gonna fade ala Villa last year.

[kurtsimonw]

And just because Villa faded badly during the latter part of last season, doesn't mean it's going to happen to Spurs. There's absolutely no reason to think that we're suddenly going to decline.

I don't disagree with the rest of what you've said, but this annoys me a little with Spurs fans. They always seems to think that nothing can happen to them to make them go on a bad run or anything. There's nothing to suggest you'll slip down the table, no, but there's nothing to suggest you will stay there either.

That's not really true. Spurs fans in general (if you read on Spurs forums anyway) are constantly looking at the next few fixtures to see where our run is gonna end.

I did have a look at a Spurs forum before the game, they all seemed to really hate Robbie Keane, like really hate him. Thought it was very odd!

[TrentVilla]

I guess you'd need to know what percentage of the media are Spurs fans. I can't tell you that.

Not really, it is fairly logical to say that given the fact the media are based in London like Spurs that more people who work in the media are from the south. Thus it is fair to assume that as a result more of the people in the media support Spurs than say Villa or Everton clubs on a level playing field in many respects to Spurs.

I don't think you need to now numbers or percentages to know that, I do know however that at least two of the sports editors for national sunday papers are Spurs fans.

But the stuff about Spurs being up there is only a recent thing since Martin Jol. Prior to that the press spoke of us as if we were a joke, which we were. We were definitely seen as a mid table side for the decade prior to Jol and never spoken about as top 4 challengers. Back then it was Leeds and Newcastle who were seen as the main threat to the top clubs.

I disagree with you there, this goes back further than Martin Jol. It was exactly the same when I was growing up, nothing has changed in that respect. Spurs have always enjoyed an elevated media presence which I firmly attribute to the reasons I've already given.

Yes Leeds and Newcastle were seen as the main threats but then it was always 'Spurs for the cup' you were always in the spot light. As I said previously some clubs need to do something to get in the spot light yet with Spurs you are right in it even when you don't.

You could argue that in recent years the top 4 has been monopolised by the same clubs, so there is naturally always going to be media interest in a club that is most likely to break that monoploy.

Until this season its been a while since you looked the most likely yet every season all the media still talk about you being most likely. You finished 5th twice that is it, so did Everton. In fact Everton went one better and actually got in the top 4 but they get a fraction of the media focus you do.

We came close and have since improved our sqaud

You came close years ago not last season or the season before.

so it's understandable that at the beginning of each season they see us as a club that could break the top 4. I think during the summer the media would have portrayed us as the second most likely to do so, after Man City.

You see that is the point, given the fact that Eveton and Villa out performed you for the last two years and that we at least improved in the summer there wasn't really a justification to expect Spurs to be one of the two main challangers.

It may end up being that way but the fact the media were hyping you up before a ball was kicked kind of shows the fact that you don't actually have to do anything to get attention.

[BOF]

I think there's a big difference between what people will say amongst their own supporters and what they will say about their club to fans of other clubs. Fans will usually defend their club in discussions with other fans and they will admit to shortcomings and fears more readily amongst their own. It's only natural.

[SimplySpurfect]

One of my best mates is a Spurs fan, he's the only one I really know. He certainly doesn't. I think they tend to over-rate their players an awful lot (King, Woodgate, Huddlestone and Lennon are the worst for it) and they always think they're going to be challenging the top 4 (To be fair, if any clubs spends the kind of money that Spurs do, I'm sure their fans would be thinking the same), but I have never heard them say they're on par with Arsenal or anything.

King was an awesome player. Injuries unfortunately ruined what would've been an incredible career for him. There's no doubt in my mind if King didn't have his injury problems, he'd be a first choice starter for England and probably Man Utd. Thierry Henry even rated him as the greatest defender he's ever faced, which is some compliment.

Woodgate is a good player, but I wouldn't say we over rate him.

Huddlestone is in no way over-rated. A vast amount of fans think the cons outweigh the pros with him. In fact, from reading a few posts on this forum, I actually think Villa fans rate him higher than Spurs fans do.

And Lennon has been immense this season. But a season or two ago, a lot of fans wanted him dropped for Bentley, or even sold. So again, wouldn't say he's over-rated either.

What does strike me as odd is that you say you only know one Spurs fan, but you then go on to make a generalisation about Spurs fans.

[SimplySpurfect]

And just because Villa faded badly during the latter part of last season, doesn't mean it's going to happen to Spurs. There's absolutely no reason to think that we're suddenly going to decline.

I don't disagree with the rest of what you've said, but this annoys me a little with Spurs fans. They always seems to think that nothing can happen to them to make them go on a bad run or anything. There's nothing to suggest you'll slip down the table, no, but there's nothing to suggest you will stay there either.

That's not really true. Spurs fans in general (if you read on Spurs forums anyway) are constantly looking at the next few fixtures to see where our run is gonna end.

I did have a look at a Spurs forum before the game, they all seemed to really hate Robbie Keane, like really hate him. Thought it was very odd!

That does seem to be a growing opinion since he came back. It stems from him making a statement after we won the Carling Cup in the February that he loved the club and wanted to see his career out here, which was met with the approval of most Spurs fans.

But then Liverpool expressed an interest and he was off in a shot. Then, when his dream move to Liverpool turned sour, he couldn't wait to come back. And his performances have been rather lacklustre since his return too.

I don't hate him, the guy has scored more than 100 goals for the club, but I can understand why some people do.

[kurtsimonw]

heard them say they're on par with Arsenal or anything.

And Lennon has been immense this season. But a season or two ago, a lot of fans wanted him dropped for Bentley, or even sold. So again, wouldn't say he's over-rated either.

What does strike me as odd is that you say you only know one Spurs fan, but you then go on to make a generalisation about Spurs fans.

Lennon is good, no question, but certainly over-rated. I've read on a forum saying he's the best English winger there is. There's obviously bias involved, but Ashley Young is far superior, the awards he's won the past 2 seasons suggest this also, but Spurs fans seem to have none of it.

I do only know one Spurs fan. The comment I responded to said "I know x amount of Spurs fans, they all think they're on par with Arsenal". The key being him saying "I know". I do only know 1 Spurs fan, so could only respond with the opinions of that friend. The rest of my post was based on what I read on Spurs forums, hence the generalisation.

Anyways, you seem a decent poster, stick around.

[SimplySpurfect]

heard them say they're on par with Arsenal or anything.

And Lennon has been immense this season. But a season or two ago, a lot of fans wanted him dropped for Bentley, or even sold. So again, wouldn't say he's over-rated either.

What does strike me as odd is that you say you only know one Spurs fan, but you then go on to make a generalisation about Spurs fans.

Lennon is good, no question, but certainly over-rated. I've read on a forum saying he's the best English winger there is. There's obviously bias involved, but Ashley Young is far superior, the awards he's won the past 2 seasons suggest this also, but Spurs fans seem to have none of it.

I do only know one Spurs fan. The comment I responded to said "I know x amount of Spurs fans, they all think they're on par with Arsenal". The key being him saying "I know". I do only know 1 Spurs fan, so could only respond with the opinions of that friend. The rest of my post was based on what I read on Spurs forums, hence the generalisation.

Anyways, you seem a decent poster, stick around.

To be fair, I think they're referring to this season. If you were to judge each player from this season alone, I'd say Lennon has been the better player.

If you'd have asked on a Spurs forum in pre season which player was better, I'd imagine most fans would've said Young. In fact, when we were linked with a bid for Young in the summer most fans were drawing up hypothetical formations with Young on the wing and Lennon on the bench.

I think you'll always get that kind of hype though when any player hits a decent spell of good form. Look at all the buzz around Defoe this season. He's been on fire so far and suddenly he's Englands second best striker. Now if he fades in the second half of the season and Bent maintains or improves his current form, then Bent will be England's second best striker.

[GlastonSpur]

... given the fact that Eveton and Villa out performed you for the last two years and that we at least improved in the summer there wasn't really a justification to expect Spurs to be one of the two main challangers.

It may end up being that way but the fact the media were hyping you up before a ball was kicked kind of shows the fact that you don't actually have to do anything to get attention.

This leaves out at least four things:

1) That managerial turmoil (the sacking of Jol and then Ramos) was seen as the major factor in the dip in Spur's league placings rather than any innate lack of squad quality. This was borne out by the dramatic improvement last season once Harry took over. Thus the media, rightly, were not fooled by the Ramos dip into thinking that Spurs would not be much improved this season.

2) That Spurs try to play attacking football, which tends to lead to more goals (both for and against) and makes for more entertaining games. The media like entertaining teams because entertainment (attracting attention) is what the media is all about.

3) That Harry is liked by the media (as was Jol), partly because he makes himself available more than most managers, and partly because of his extrovert personality. MON is much more introverted in comparison.

4) That Spurs tend to engage in more media-noteworthy transfer dealings compated to Villa: e.g. Berbatov to Man. Utd, Keane to Liverpool (then back to Spurs), Modric to Spurs after his exploits in the European Cup internationals (qualifers and finals) etc. I could also go back further and cite players like Ginola, Klinsmann, Gascoigne etc.

[colleh]

1) That managerial turmoil (the sacking of Jol and then Ramos) was seen as the major factor in the dip in Spur's league placings rather than any innate lack of squad quality. This was borne out by the dramatic improvement last season once Harry took over. Thus the media, rightly, were not fooled by the Ramos dip into thinking that Spurs would not be much improved this season.

The 'managerial turmoil' stemmed from the fact you dipped in the league placings :?

You were supposed to finish 4th under Ramos and he flopped....badly.

And the whole Ramos hype stemmed from the fact that Spurs shone at the end of the season when it didn't matter anymore, didn't it? Much like Harry last year...

[Morkery]

You make me like Arsenal.

[joey55]

1) That managerial turmoil (the sacking of Jol and then Ramos) was seen as the major factor in the dip in Spur's league placings rather than any innate lack of squad quality. This was borne out by the dramatic improvement last season once Harry took over. Thus the media, rightly, were not fooled by the Ramos dip into thinking that Spurs would not be much improved this season.

The 'managerial turmoil' stemmed from the fact you dipped in the league placings :?

You were supposed to finish 4th under Ramos and he flopped....badly.

And the whole Ramos hype stemmed from the fact that Spurs shone at the end of the season when it didn't matter anymore, didn't it? Much like Harry last year...

We certainly never shone at the end of the season under Ramos. In fact other than a 5 game period in Nov/Dec 2007, we were shit under Ramos. I think we won only 2 or 3 league games in the second half of the 2007/8 season. Our terrible start to the 2008/9 season was portrayed as Ramos suddenly losing it, but in reality it just continued a steady decline after a brief improvement when he was appointed. But this was all covered up by winning the Carling Cup.

[HolteExile]

Never particularly disliked Tottingham, their fans and ours have a lot in common. As much as that might be uncomfortable for some.

Supporters of big, but largely under-achieving clubs. To the extent that you come to develop a gallows-style sense of humour.

Most Tottenham fans I've met seem to have quite a high regard for the Villa, more so than -curiously- another similar sized club Everton. They seem to genuinely dislike us.

What I do find amusing- and I think this crystalizes the issue- is when you have media outlets like SSN running phone-ins with the centre piece topic being "Will this be the year that Spurs finally crack the top 4?" Finally? As if they've been knocking on the door since year dot?

Funny, as I look at the bulk of their Prem record -and indeed their league record for many seasons before that- and I see a team perennially treading water in mid-table. With only the odd cup outing and superstar signing breaking up the grey.

In contrast, during the same period- lets say early 90's -present we've challenged for the title twice, finished in the top 5 twice and the top 6 many other times. And bagged two LC wins.

But I guess it comes down to perception. Like it or not, we are an unfashionable club. A big club, yes. As big as most in the country. But Tottenham have featured in more FA Cup finals in recent decades, and always been prepared to push the boat out for the likes of Ardilles, Ricky Villa and Klinsmann. Thats always worth column inches. Though they've lacked the planning to get the best out of those talents to the full benefit of the team. Not unlike more recent Spurs sides, in fact.

They could buck that trend this year. If they produce peformances like they did against Wigan reserves and ourselves second half more often than not, they will be there or thereabouts. And as a football fan, I'd say they fully deserve it. More so than if we sneak through the back door with the kind of tactics we employed on Saturday. Or lack of.

One thing though, Redknapp is definitely a cant.

[PaulMcgrathsknees]

I used to like Tottenham as a club. Hate them now.

I used to hate Pompey. Like them now.

I will always hate Harry the two faced, snidey, thief Melted face.

Any manager who flicks the v's at football fans and then has the bear faced cheek to complain rather than apologise.........

W@~ker.

[kurtsimonw]

Yeah, I didn't mind Spurs under Jol, wanted them to beat Arsenal to 4th. I can't force myself to not hate a team managed by Redknapp though. The opposite of the word 'loyal' is Harry Redknapp.

[avfc89]

I don't mind Harry, why should I dislike him?

[Jas]

I've decided to support Spurs.

Superrrrrrrr Spurs Armmmmmmmy!!

Villa are poop guys. Come over to this side. We're so much better. A whole 3 points better. Even though we've been the second top spenders to Man City in the last 18 months. Harry has done it all from scratch though, what a manager. He's better than Fergie that kid, I'm telling you.

See you all at WHL!!!

EDIT: and oh Villa?! We could take any of your players any day, but we don't want any. They're all rubbish and wouldn't even get on our bench.

[ClaretMahoney]

[avfc89]

Someone has hacked Jas' computer again.