Marka Ragnos Posted April 21 VT Supporter Share Posted April 21 5 hours ago, est1874 said: PGMOL and VAR have conspired to make a mockery of the offside rule. Even if you could make an argument that he was clearly offside (which would take a United fan or a PGMOL employee, but those are the same thing anyway), surely the whole basis of the offside rule is that an attacking player shouldn't have an advantage over a defender when the ball is played. Please tell me how an attacker turned away from goal has an advantage over a defender facing the goal at full pelt? It's a total joke. Drawing lines (which doesn't work anyway, as anyone can see from that image) is not what the rule is **** for. The **** goblins. Very well said. That totally cuts to the core issue: What is the purpose of rules? How can these negligible, microscopic after-the-fact determinations about lines on screens really have anything to do with protecting against some practical disadvantages on the pitch? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I agree with her. The Premier League is supposed to be the most elite competition in the world. They should have absolute bleeding edge high speed camera capturing 10000 frames a second to get these decisions right. I have no love for Coventry but they can consider themselves hard done by. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC_Hitz Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 11 hours ago, Davkaus said: If you were in a room with Hitler and Bruno Fernandez, and had a gun with one bullet, how many times would you pistol whip Bruno after you shot him? Twelvety times. Hate him. Mouth breathing gimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Name Is Death Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) 12 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: F**k VAR, absolutely detest it, a moment like that in a semi final ruled out for a minor infraction that had no bearing on the ultimate outcome. The jubilation and the emotions those Cov fans will have experienced should have been something to remember for all the right reasons, now it will only be remembered for the wrong reasons, clinical accuracy isn’t football, emotion and the eruption of those emotions is what football is about, and VAR kills it. I went to plenty of games through the 90s and 00s and clinical accuracy was exactly what fans wanted to counter the incompetence of the refs and linesmen up until they actually got VAR, and now they pretend they never ever wanted a system that could double-check and potentially overturn their decisions. "All we wanted was the spirit of the game to be maintained", my arse. Edited April 22 by His Name Is Death 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted April 22 VT Supporter Share Posted April 22 29 minutes ago, His Name Is Death said: I went to plenty of games through the 90s and 00s and clinical accuracy was exactly what fans wanted to counter the incompetence of the refs and linesmen up until they actually got VAR, and now they pretend they never ever wanted a system that could double-check and potentially overturn their decisions. "All we wanted was the spirit of the game to be maintained", my arse. The offside rule back in the day was amended so we as fans said "clear daylight" it stopped those arguments about being level and gave the attacker the advantage. Now it's a whim on when they press pause on the video which can be manipulated to suit agendas. Villa have actually done well with the offside rule these days using it to our advantage. However if lines are needed then I think most of us would agree it's level. The new tech next season they are using will be interesting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, S-Platt said: The offside rule back in the day was amended so we as fans said "clear daylight" it stopped those arguments about being level and gave the attacker the advantage. Now it's a whim on when they press pause on the video which can be manipulated to suit agendas. Villa have actually done well with the offside rule these days using it to our advantage. However if lines are needed then I think most of us would agree it's level. The new tech next season they are using will be interesting. The new tech is good, quicker and that's basically all we need. There will always be "the edge" with offsides. It doesn't matter whether or not you want to make the rule as being level with the defender or "clear daylight" or 1m advantage or whatever - there will always be the point at which a player is 1mm 'over' that edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted April 22 VT Supporter Share Posted April 22 8 minutes ago, bobzy said: The new tech is good, quicker and that's basically all we need. There will always be "the edge" with offsides. It doesn't matter whether or not you want to make the rule as being level with the defender or "clear daylight" or 1m advantage or whatever - there will always be the point at which a player is 1mm 'over' that edge. It's true; if you introduce a 10 cm or 20 cm or - if you're Arsene Wenger - a 1 metre margin of error, or whatever, you just move the edge and will still very tight calls at a different point that will be debated. However, I think it would be much more palatable for fans having that debate to say "well, it could have gone either way, but he is clearly [x] cm ahead of the defender, I can accept it's probably offside" (as if any fan ever talks like that). What we saw yesterday is a prime of example of what's not palatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 2 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: It's true; if you introduce a 10 cm or 20 cm or - if you're Arsene Wenger - a 1 metre margin of error, or whatever, you just move the edge and will still very tight calls at a different point that will be debated. However, I think it would be much more palatable for fans having that debate to say "well, it could have gone either way, but he is clearly [x] cm ahead of the defender, I can accept it's probably offside" (as if any fan ever talks like that). What we saw yesterday is a prime of example of what's not palatable. I agree, but that's only because we're anti-Man Utd and/or the decision hasn't gone against us. If that offside was given against Man Utd rather than Coventry, there'd be so much less sympathy. The main issue for me is that I'm not sure how they've determined he's factually offside. Weirdly, the player looked more offside without the lines being drawn than he did when they were drawn. I don't know what the answer is, if I'm honest. The new system is a mile better so that should help, but there's always going to be horrifically tiny, marginal calls which get given as offside/onside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted April 22 VT Supporter Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, bobzy said: I agree, but that's only because we're anti-Man Utd and/or the decision hasn't gone against us. If that offside was given against Man Utd rather than Coventry, there'd be so much less sympathy. The main issue for me is that I'm not sure how they've determined he's factually offside. Weirdly, the player looked more offside without the lines being drawn than he did when they were drawn. I don't know what the answer is, if I'm honest. The new system is a mile better so that should help, but there's always going to be horrifically tiny, marginal calls which get given as offside/onside. How about "umpire's call" like in cricket? 30 cm margin of error, if you're in that then it's linesman's call otherwise it should be factually correct from the tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 10 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said: Very well said. That totally cuts to the core issue: What is the purpose of rules? How can these negligible, microscopic after-the-fact determinations about lines on screens really have anything to do with protecting against some practical disadvantages on the pitch? Thank you. I said similar to a group of friends and was met with "But offside is offside" and "It'll always be a case of millimetres". The collective brainwashing is really strange. Up to a few years ago when VAR came in, that wasn't the case re: offsides. Bad decisions were being made, but they were being made because in real time it was near impossible for the human eye to pick up a few millimetres, or even centimetres, here or there. Now we've gone to the other extreme and we are literally measuring with a digital ruler. This is no better than the problem it was designed to fix, and IMO it has made things considerably worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 8 hours ago, VillaJ100 said: I agree with her. The Premier League is supposed to be the most elite competition in the world. They should have absolute bleeding edge high speed camera capturing 10000 frames a second to get these decisions right. I have no love for Coventry but they can consider themselves hard done by. Even with 10,000 frames per second there is the subjective call of where to pause the play to draw the lines. The ball is not passed in a single frame. It could still be manipulated to suit one of the teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted April 22 VT Supporter Share Posted April 22 23 minutes ago, Genie said: Even with 10,000 frames per second there is the subjective call of where to pause the play to draw the lines. The ball is not passed in a single frame. It could still be manipulated to suit one of the teams. As someone said, the sensors in the balls could be used to determine the exact (or first frame after the) moment of contact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 12 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: As someone said, the sensors in the balls could be used to determine the exact (or first frame after the) moment of contact. Yep, at least it would be consistent every time then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) Strange to see Burnley only 3 points off the relegation zone. Obviously the deductions of points for others provides some explanation. Their goal difference in comparison to Everton and Forest is alarming though. I can't see any of the current bottom three surviving. Edited April 22 by sheepyvillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Watching the highlights of Coventry v United. I'm quite surprised Coventry got the pen for that handball, especially when you think of the one we was denied with Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Inter about to win Serie A vs Milan in the derby. First time ever it has happened and will also add the 2nd star to the Inter jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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