Ratings & Reactions: Villa v West Ham

[Pinebro]

13 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

I think Moyes is showing the limitations of building a primarily counter-attacking team. So for all of the talk about them being tough to beat and dangerous on the counter is true, but that sitting deep and counter-attacking style requires high defensive intensity for a long period of time. Their set up - a low 442 block or a 541 depending on the occasion is not dissimilar to what we faced against Wolves but because of the derby - they really got on us whereas West Ham were relatively passive. Look at the passage of play for Watkins first chance and Diaby is standing without anyone around him between the lines. 

So there is an element of West Ham being "off" it but the truth is that teams can't really sustain this high intensity defensive press every match. That's why Unai is so focused on possession and keeping control of the ball so that we can have high bursts of press intensity instead of being dialed in for more than 60% of the match. This is a common theme of both MON (remember how our teams used to fall apart the second half of the season), Deano (the doldrums of post-January), and for most of his history - Moyes. Sustaining that high defensive intensity is very difficult.

That is great for certain clubs and it can even win you trophies because that counter-attacking style benefits knockout tournaments. If you have the right personnel, you can even have a really stellar season. But in general, there's a ceiling for that style of play in the league.

The sad thing for West Ham is they actually have so many good players. Players well capable with going toe to toe against most teams but Moyes is limiting them.

[sheepyvillian]

20 hours ago, stewiek2 said:

They also said he falls off second season at clubs

Now, now! Don't tempt fate.

[sheepyvillian]

Just now, Pinebro said:

The sad thing for West Ham is they actually have so many good players. Players well capable with going toe to toe against most teams but Moyes is limiting them.

I heard Big Sam lambasting "tika taka" on some programme, actually had the temerity to call it "boring football".

That's why he's never managed a team at the highest level in club football.  

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

It still puzzles me a times, when we have an emphatic win like that, and some folk, try to find mitigation for our opponents

Did Liverpool and Newcastle fans do that......Oh Villa had an off day, or finding excuses for their goals.

The best Holt end rendition of the day, was ....." you can stick your bubbles up your ( where the sun don't shine)"

Quite Frankly, I don't care if teams have bad performances against us....I just take it as we have imposed them poor performances on them.

was the 11 home wins all finding teams had an off day?

I think at this level, if you beat a team 4-1 or 6-1 then the opposition probably did have an off day.

But that's sport. Teams have off days all the time. If West Ham turned up and played their best match of the season (ie not an off day) we wouldn't beat them 4-1

All you can do is perform to your best. If West Ham are on it then we might win 1-0 or draw 1-1. If they're slightly off it we hammer them (pun intended)

That's sport

[OutByEaster?]

7 hours ago, rjw63 said:

I’ve never watched it before.

They're also contractually restricted on the games - they can only show a certain amount of the footage if the game was on Sky/TNT live - I think it's something ridiculous like four minutes or similar.

 

[Rugeley Villa]

I think we are starting to gel at the back now. By each game we look more solid which is great because I honestly thought that would be one of our biggest problems. We’ve got possibly the best goal keeper in the world along with a few other keepers you could say that about too. We had our wobble yesterday but what annoyed me the most yesterday and it’s petty is when the ref was about to blow for halftime and we had a chance of getting the ball into their box, but instead we messed about with it. 

[Creeper]

Unrelated to the on pitch performance. One of the flags in the Holte keeps on getting my attention. 

What on earth does Pukka Dooey mean? 

[RicRic]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

True....but spare a thought for those that are being played in their positions.

Digne, Torres and Zaniolo are all playing well, which is a massive filip to what Unai is constructing.

as you say.....Elite Manager.

Wouldn’t say zaniolo is particularly playing well thats not to say hes been terrible either but the rest of our team are a grade above which helps players like that who haven’t reached that next level up. Yes Digne and Torres progressing very well , I’ve been impressed with Digne for stepping up and showing everyone how consistently good he can be

[sheepyvillian]

8 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Gregory and little I can remember us being good but again still too young to understand what I was really watching

Judging us on our cup final appearance against Chelsea, I would say that was a blessing in disguise. 

We played decent football for the first few months of his reign, resulting in us topping the league, and then Gregory started to believe he was the best thing since sliced bread and then our football inexplicably became a snore-fest causing us to realise Gregory was as bad a football manager as he was a guitar player. 

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I think we are starting to gel at the back now. By each game we look more solid which is great because I honestly thought that would be one of our biggest problems. We’ve got possibly the best goal keeper in the world along with a few other keepers you could say that about too. We had our wobble yesterday but what annoyed me the most yesterday and it’s petty is when the ref was about to blow for halftime and we had a chance of getting the ball into their box, but instead we messed about with it. 

What stands Martinez out in comparison to other Keepers is presence, that is the one trait all World class players have in common. His shithousery is a joy to behold, especially because he revels in it, and he's even learning how to keep it just the right side of the referee's tolerance. 

[sheepyvillian]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

It still puzzles me a times, when we have an emphatic win like that, and some folk, try to find mitigation for our opponents

Did Liverpool and Newcastle fans do that......Oh Villa had an off day, or finding excuses for their goals.

The best Holt end rendition of the day, was ....." you can stick your bubbles up your ( where the sun don't shine)"

Quite Frankly, I don't care if teams have bad performances against us....I just take it as we have imposed them poor performances on them.

was the 11 home wins all finding teams had an off day?

I agree. We imposed ourselves on the opposition by out thinking and out fighting them. There body language spoke volumes about their attitude and will to come through adversity, that's due credit to us and a strum of a violin to them.

 

[turvontour]

The sky commentator was great for this game, just watching the game back.

[TRO]

23 hours ago, rubberman said:

On MOTD they were slagging off Paqueta for his lack of movement. Really obvious in the build-up to the first goal - he just stood and watched while Luiz ran off to pick up the pass and score. Highlighted the intensity that Unai has us playing with now.

Its so encouraging......Most of the things, I have been looking for in recent times, we are now doing, now.

I see things, almost game to game, as if this is the latest thing they have been working on.....I saw that kind of Incremental improvement under Ron Saunders all those years ago ....not the same things because the times are different, but I am referencing gradual improvement.

I think we are even better now, than when we started the season.

I am trying to catch a read of the Jonathan Northcroft ( The Times) Interview with UE, supposed to be very good.....Unai says his talk with SAF after he left Arsenal, was a game changer for him....couldn't have a better influence.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by TRO

[sheepyvillian]

4 hours ago, turvontour said:

The sky commentator was great for this game, just watching the game back.

He's a top commentator, remember his commentary when Konza/Mings got that last minute winner against Watford?

[TRO]

23 hours ago, DJBOB said:

I think Moyes is showing the limitations of building a primarily counter-attacking team. So for all of the talk about them being tough to beat and dangerous on the counter is true, but that sitting deep and counter-attacking style requires high defensive intensity for a long period of time. Their set up - a low 442 block or a 541 depending on the occasion is not dissimilar to what we faced against Wolves but because of the derby - they really got on us whereas West Ham were relatively passive. Look at the passage of play for Watkins first chance and Diaby is standing without anyone around him between the lines. 

So there is an element of West Ham being "off" it but the truth is that teams can't really sustain this high intensity defensive press every match. That's why Unai is so focused on possession and keeping control of the ball so that we can have high bursts of press intensity instead of being dialed in for more than 60% of the match. This is a common theme of both MON (remember how our teams used to fall apart the second half of the season), Deano (the doldrums of post-January), and for most of his history - Moyes. Sustaining that high defensive intensity is very difficult.

That is great for certain clubs and it can even win you trophies because that counter-attacking style benefits knockout tournaments. If you have the right personnel, you can even have a really stellar season. But in general, there's a ceiling for that style of play in the league.

West Ham will still be a difficult team to play, in future games and I think that will be played out during the season.

We was just better than them on the day.

We just have to keep focusing on the next match, keep improving, and see where it takes us.

We are doing it all right...just now.....but its a marathon, not a sprint.

Edited October 24, 2023 by TRO

[turvontour]

12 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

He's a top commentator, remember his commentary when Konza/Mings got that last minute winner against Watford?

Who is it?

[sheepyvillian]

5 minutes ago, turvontour said:

Who is it?

Peter Drury. 

[Annoyman]

Watford 2-1 was Rob Hawthorne, also of "it's broken again for Ashley Young...is there to be a final twist yet? YOUNG~!" fame

[Tomaszk]

12 hours ago, Annoyman said:

Watford 2-1 was Rob Hawthorne, also of "it's broken again for Ashley Young...is there to be a final twist yet? YOUNG~!" fame

Another fine Moyes moment v Villa. Wanging his coat backwards into the dugout

 

[TRO]

On 23/10/2023 at 15:52, sheepyvillian said:

I heard Big Sam lambasting "tika taka" on some programme, actually had the temerity to call it "boring football".

That's why he's never managed a team at the highest level in club football.  

I think it has to be mixed up.....The Long ball has its place, now and again....as does the close control and short passing.....its the business of teams not knowing what we are going to do, which makes us rounded.

There are periods in games where  diversity of style is helpful....UE is able to implement this, which makes us unpredictable.

Its hard for the players to take in, but he is educating them as well as training them.