Ratings & Reactions: Leeds v Villa

[AvonVillain]

18 hours ago, Indigo said:

It's probably been mentioned but for what it's worth I fully agree with Marsch criticising Villa for killing time in the first half. How on earth have we sunk to a level where we're wasting time against Leeds at every available opportunity in the first half of a game to maintain a 0-0 scoreline. Genuinely embarrassing. 

Surely this is evidence of the players not being happy? I just can't think of a well coached, happy team approaching any game this way.

[Podster]

14 hours ago, wedge said:

I must be either absolutely mental or witnessed a different game to most yesterday evening. Judging by the reaction you'd have thought we got hammered, admittedly there are bigger questions such as have we progressed under Gerrard (I'd argue we've gone backwards if anything) but commenting solely on the 90 minutes we saw yesterday I really don't think we were bad at all!? We didn't set the world alight but it's a tough old place to go and we stood up to them, battled well and if we could hit a barn door we'd have won comfortably. Despite what the over-dramatic football twitter jellyfish and wannabee vloggers/bloggers blue ticks post, we aren't going to win every game 5-0 playing a hybrid of 2010 Barcelona/1970s Brazil unfortunately.

I listened to the match on the radio and the commentators were saying over and over again we were too slow, lacking ideas, no quality in the final third, and these type of comments were not just one off comments, they also said we were mostly without any idea how to break leeds down, who were poor themselves. 

[fruitvilla]

OK against 10 for half the game

..........,,...Villa :  Leeds
Shots ....... 19 : 6
on target ...7 : 1
corners .... 9 : 2
fouls ......  12 : 23
frustration big : immense
 

[TRO]

On 03/10/2022 at 14:05, nick76 said:

With 40+ minutes of ten men, a flapping goalkeeper we should’ve won.

A point was not a good result at all but I expect no more from Gerrard football these days.  

Blame the players fine, but he could’ve made changes both in players and tactics and that’s his job but even when they went down to ten men I still didn’t expect us to win because Gerrard doesn’t know how to take advantage.

In a one off game things sometimes don’t go your way but as somebody pointed out we have less points over the last 19 games than played games.  We have 8 points in 8 games and scored only 6 goals in 8 league games this season.

I guess we can both present scenario's, of choice.

before I start Nick.....you have to understand, I agree with some of your points and views, I am NOT dismissing everything you say.....Far from it.

The football right now, is far from convincing, but from the poor start a back to basics approach was necessary.......should we need to go back to basics, this far into a new managers reign, is of course debatable, maybe not, it just addresses the poor start...which I agree, we shouldn't have to be doing.

but lets try and build some perspective and this is in no way addressing the poor football on display, but it is explaining in someway the league position of 14th.

I am not a great seller of ifs, buts and maybe's, but there comes a time when the slightest bit of luck can change the landscape....and some very plausible things could have changed one slant on our outlook....results.

• It is not stretching the imagination to say that if, the officials had of got a crucial decision right in the Man City, game, we could have secured 3 points, 2 more that what we got.
• It is not stretching the imagination further again to say that, if Coutinho's effort went in off the post another 2 points would have been gained......this is not even mentioning the poor result at Bournemouth, this is the road back, from that.....

Not too much to think it could have happened, if it had, we would be sitting on 12 points as opposed to 8 and sitting in 6th place in the league.....with arguably a different dialogue to digest.

I am not saying that negates, the unconvincing football we are witnessing, but what I am saying is, that breeds confidence, in all of us, and that can lead to convincing football.

This league is all about fine margins, and you do have to make your own luck to a degree, but we are not as bad as we think we are, and I am not saying we have turned the corner per se......but in terms of being "hard to play against" we may have turned that corner.

Mings is playing some of his best football for yonks, and against Leeds we did create chances......a clinical goalscorer, would have us in a different place.

I am not proposing the football is for the purists, but I do feel an element of " we can give teams a game" albeit scrappy.......consistently good results will inevitably return confidence, which will subsequently improve the quality of play.

I accept, this team should be doing better, but I think the first game, sent shockwaves through the club, and we are just recovering.....That should never have happened, but it did and we have to find a way back, and I think gradually we are, even though, the attack needs to improve drastically.

I am not trying to preach with rose tinted glasses, but I am trying to cling to perspective......I also want to make clear, this is my view, and I want Villa to do well, but respect all those fans with differing views Nick, you being one...who also have Villa's best interests at heart.

We can disagree, and yet still have the same objective at Heart.

UTV

Edited October 4, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

On 03/10/2022 at 15:19, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Yeah I agree we played quite well I thought. Limited them to few chances and we had the better chances in the first half.

Second-half we should have won that game two or three nil, but unfortunately the players didn't take their chances. That is what cost us.

absolutely spot on.

Managers do have a responsibilty, of course they do......but they can't play for them.....I see some stuff, only the players, can fix.

Its on the front three, to sort their game out....we can blame coaching all we want, these are international players, who could themselves coach most lower level teams.

 

[onmeedson]

Everytime  Ashley Young steps onto a pitch he shows you what a professional is all about, a player that plays for the team and leads by example. Most of the others are bit part players who give a little cameo now and again and take no responsibility for their part time commitment and lack of fight but roll over to have their tummy tickled like your family pet. They got Smith sacked and they will get any manager sacked because they are a poor squad who are living the dream. 

[nick76]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

This league is all about fine margins

But even if I give you everything else, which I don’t, how come Gerrard is on the wrong side of every margin? We only just miss out every time.  I think we all know the answer

p.s. Coutinho’s “goal” against City…City had stopped especially Stones.  Who knows what would’ve happened if had continued, maybe he still would’ve scored maybe even the defender could have stopped him or Stones could’ve done something different but they stopped because the whistle had blown.  You can see it on the replays they had stopped.

p.p.s. It’s all ifs and maybes but if the ball hadn’t had come off the crossbar for JJ’s goal perfectly for him after the goalkeeper tried to exaggerate the save and instead of a simple touch over from Watkins he touched it onto the bar, then we’d be walking away with a 0-0 and now on six points instead of 8.

The fact is we have 8 points in 8 games, 17 points in the last 19 games so all this fine margin stuff is true but Gerrard keeps getting on the wrong side of it, producing poor football, poor results, no cohesion on the pitch, bad subs and whinny press conferences about the players need to do something.

Hes in a no win situation next game.  It’s the biggest banker he can get for a win against Forest.  A win is the only result that can come out of it but the pro Gerrard crew will say it continues his turnaround but I could run that team and beat Forest, they are saviours of teams like Leicester and Villa managers.  It’s a no win because if he wins, it’s expected but he can’t draw or lose.  I don’t expect to win generally because of the competitiveness of this league but he has to get the win, there is no reason not to, even how poor we are and he is, it should be a banker.  That win undeservingly will tie him over until the WC unfortunately.

[nick76]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

absolutely spot on.

Managers do have a responsibilty, of course they do......but they can't play for them.....I see some stuff, only the players, can fix.

Its on the front three, to sort their game out....we can blame coaching all we want, these are international players, who could themselves coach most lower level teams.

 

Yet Gerrard keeps playing them

[Marka Ragnos]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

absolutely spot on.

Managers do have a responsibilty, of course they do......but they can't play for them.....I see some stuff, only the players, can fix.

Its on the front three, to sort their game out....we can blame coaching all we want, these are international players, who could themselves coach most lower level teams.

 

I've felt for at least the last year that we lack teeth upfront and also midfield leadership and a sense of growth, but this doesn't rule out what also seems to me a stubborn and serious lack of ability on the part of Gerrard. I don't think he's terrible, but if it's the players, he should have by now unlocked their possibilities or addressed the squad failures, and he's just not been able to do either of those things. For whatever reason, he's not connecting with and "growing" the squad in the way a top PL manager needs to connect and develop. Even if you set aside the horrible injuries, we still wouldn't be scoring goals. Gerrard's obviously a skilled manager (I know people will pillory this, but he could be a lot worse than he is, actually, and he's at perhaps the most difficult league in the world), but he's a better fit for the MLS, IMO. Time's up.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Marka Ragnos

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Marka Ragnos said:

I've felt for at least the last year that we lack teeth upfront and also midfield leadership and a sense of growth, but this doesn't rule out what also seems to me a stubborn and serious lack of ability on the part of Gerrard. I don't think he's terrible, but if it's the players, he should have by now unlocked their possibilities or addressed the squad failures, and he's just not been able to do either of those things. Even if you set aside the horrible injuries, we still wouldn't be scoring goals. Gerrard's obviously a skilled manager, but he's a better fit for the MLS, IMO. Time's up.

its hard to just set aside some of the addtions we have signed to improve us......thats kinda dismissive of the issues.

[Marka Ragnos]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

its hard to just set aside some of the addtions we have signed to improve us......thats kinda dismissive of the issues.

I agree it's kind of academic "if an apple wasn't an apple it wouldn't be an apple" kind of guesswork, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't see Boubacar or Diego improving Ollie's foot problems, and I feel Gerrard should have addressed the Ollie problem last summer at the latest. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Marka Ragnos said:

I agree it's kind of academic "if an apple wasn't an apple it wouldn't be an apple" kind of guesswork, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't see Boubacar or Diego improving Ollie's foot problems, and I feel Gerrard should have addressed the Ollie problem last summer at the latest. 

what makes you think, he didn't want to.....maybe he wasn't able to?

[TRO]

3 hours ago, onmeedson said:

Everytime  Ashley Young steps onto a pitch he shows you what a professional is all about, a player that plays for the team and leads by example. Most of the others are bit part players who give a little cameo now and again and take no responsibility for their part time commitment and lack of fight but roll over to have their tummy tickled like your family pet. They got Smith sacked and they will get any manager sacked because they are a poor squad who are living the dream. 

Totally agree.

[Marka Ragnos]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

what makes you think, he didn't want to.....maybe he wasn't able to?

Yes, so get a better striker and stop starting Ollie, right? That's on Gerrard, not Ollie. You can't fault Ollie for being who he is, assuming he's training hard. I just think there's a point where someone needs to shoulder the responsibility when the same dull, rusty knife keeps getting taken from the kitchen drawer to cut the mustard. 

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Yes, so get a better striker and stop starting Ollie, right? That's on Gerrard, not Ollie. You can't fault Ollie for being who he is, assuming he's training hard. I just think there's a point where someone needs to shoulder the responsibility when the same dull, rusty knife keeps getting taken from the kitchen drawer to cut the mustard. 

I agree with you....but we don't know the reason why SG continues to play him....when he fails to score.

Ash Preece has already had a flea in his ear for prompting Cam Archer......but to be fair, we don't know, if he is the answer either.

I would give him a chance, buts its not my job on the line, if it was, I may continue with Ollie, too.

Edited October 4, 2022 by TRO

[Thug]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

absolutely spot on.

Managers do have a responsibilty, of course they do......but they can't play for them.....I see some stuff, only the players, can fix.

It’s on the front three, to sort their game out....we can blame coaching all we want, these are international players, who could themselves coach most lower level teams.

 

are you serious?

[TRO]

No.

[TRO]

14 hours ago, Thug said:

are you serious?

No.

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

It's not really what I'm suggesting at all as it is purely hypothetical but if you want to interpret it that way go with it.

Personally I thought we played better than Leeds the other day (11 v 11) but then we disappointingly snatched a draw from the jaws of a win. There were some signs of positivity I thought.

I see good and bad, most prefer to see bad at the moment. Just trying to find a little parity!

11 v 11 it seemed to me that Leeds were controlling the game for the first 20 minutes or so, but their influence waned as we seemed to (successfully) suck the life out of the game as if we were Levante against 2010 Barcelona or something. By the end of the half it was pretty even, and it looked like the match would end 0-0. Honestly, it's not acceptable to me for Villa to be approaching matches against the likes of Leeds in this way. 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

4 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

11 v 11 it seemed to me that Leeds were controlling the game for the first 20 minutes or so, but their influence waned as we seemed to (successfully) suck the life out of the game as if we were Levante against 2010 Barcelona or something. By the end of the half it was pretty even, and it looked like the match would end 0-0. Honestly, it's not acceptable to me for Villa to be approaching matches against the likes of Leeds in this way. 

Interesting how different we see things, it's why opinions are important.

Personally I thought we shaded the first half and looked livelier after the break up until the sending off. 11 v 11 I thought we had the better chances through Watkins and Coutinho amongst others.

Most predicted a difficult game and most consequently felt we should have won it.