cheltenham_villa Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 9 hours ago, KentVillan said: I think in the long run the market probably does sort itself out, but when you have these very sudden impacts and not a lot of scope for competition to emerge in the short term, the established players just take advantage. There's definitely a case for the govt stepping in here to say, look we get you need to make a profit on this, but you've had a lot of support from the taxpayer over the past 15 years, and we're going to set some thresholds here so you can still make a profit, but at least give people a chance to make some money from their savings. Unfortunately, though, until BoE base rate exceeds inflation (as is the case in the US atm), there's no way banks will offer savings that beat inflation. So really that is the main problem. the government also owns NS&I, this is a government back savings product. The rates here are still lower than lots of high street banks so id suggest the government has the ability to fix this very easily if they want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 So to add to the gas and electricity going down petrol is also low at the moment If we can get inflation down and these idiots stop putting interest rates up then the cost of living crisis wont be as bad as made out Guess all we can do is put the money saved on gas and electric petrol towards the mortgages for now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 23, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 23, 2023 27 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: petrol is also low at the moment No it isn't, there is still vast profiteering at the pump. Diesel is at least 8p per litre above where it should be 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, bickster said: No it isn't, there is still vast profiteering at the pump. Diesel is at least 8p per litre above where it should be diesel near me can vary by 15-20 pence per litre. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, bickster said: No it isn't, there is still vast profiteering at the pump. Diesel is at least 8p per litre above where it should be I dont have diesel so cant comment on that I meant in twrms of a few months ago its lower. Its 11p cheaper than it was in winter. Your right it should be lower but thats the bloody crappy companies exploiting people. Even the supermarket arr doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, cheltenham_villa said: diesel near me can vary by 15-20 pence per litre. It’s being held high near me. We were aways cheaper than Birmingham but this year it’s been consistently more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: I dont have diesel so cant comment on that I meant in twrms of a few months ago its lower. Its 11p cheaper than it was in winter. Your right it should be lower but thats the bloody crappy companies exploiting people. Even the supermarket arr doing it Supermarkets are the issue, they always used to have slimmer margins and other garages had to compete with them. Now supermarkets are charging much more which pushes everyone else up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 55 minutes ago, Genie said: Supermarkets are the issue, they always used to have slimmer margins and other garages had to compete with them. Now supermarkets are charging much more which pushes everyone else up. 100% agree The only ****/businesses who were making massive profits during covid they can afford to make less profits yet they are taking advantage of us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Quote Banks and building societies will offer more flexibility to struggling mortgage-holders as rates soar. The move comes after bank bosses met the chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, in Downing Street on Friday. Borrowers will be able to make a temporary change to their mortgage terms, then will be able to return to their original deal within six months. This would allow some to have lower repayments for a short time, by just paying the interest on the home loan. Mr Hunt said the temporary flexibility on switching terms would not affect credit scores. However, it will still be the case that missing payments or taking a total break on payments, known as a mortgage holiday, will still harm someone's ability to borrow in the future. Lenders also agreed to a 12-month delay before taking repossession proceedings against borrowers unable, or unwilling, to pay over the long term. link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said: diesel near me can vary by 15-20 pence per litre. There was a 10p a litre difference between Cardiff and Swansea a few days ago. 80 mile round trip. Car can do 62mpg. It was beginning to get close to being viable to go to Swansea for petrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigyh74 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Genie said: link If ever there was a more pointless meeting..... So lenders have said they will agree, temporarily, to not repossess until you are 12 months in arrears. There will be an end date to the this agreement though, so you can imagine how quickly they will pounce once the moratorium ends..... Also - they have agreed to let borrowers switch to interest only for up to 6 months, no questions asked. What they're not saying is that in 6 months time, your repayments will need to be recalculated as you'll owe the same, but have a shorter term in which to repay the balance. An extension of the term may also be possible, which might cancel this out though. And to those hundreds of thousands of borrowers already on interest only, where the term of the mortgage is irrelevant - not a peep. Get the feeling the government are kicking the can down the road, avoiding the issue until the next general election, where my dog has more chance of being voted in than this pathetic bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Craigyh74 said: If ever there was a more pointless meeting..... So lenders have said they will agree, temporarily, to not repossess until you are 12 months in arrears. There will be an end date to the this agreement though, so you can imagine how quickly they will pounce once the moratorium ends..... Also - they have agreed to let borrowers switch to interest only for up to 6 months, no questions asked. What they're not saying is that in 6 months time, your repayments will need to be recalculated as you'll owe the same, but have a shorter term in which to repay the balance. An extension of the term may also be possible, which might cancel this out though. And to those hundreds of thousands of borrowers already on interest only, where the term of the mortgage is irrelevant - not a peep. Get the feeling the government are kicking the can down the road, avoiding the issue until the next general election, where my dog has more chance of being voted in than this pathetic bunch. I kind of agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but based on the extremely low bar that I measure this government by I am pleasantly surprised they have had a meeting and put at least something in place. I’m sure there will be plenty of people wanting to take up the temporary switch from repayment to interest only to help their outgoings for a few months. Probably plenty of people who aren’t struggling, like the mortgage holiday during covid. I knew people who took the 3 month mortgage holiday and used the money “saved” to book an actual holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 25, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2023 Christ on a bike. Just heard that in the 90's the average mortgage holder borrowed 3 to 4 times income. Average today is 11 (eleven) times income I feel absolutely devastated for these people. They're (in the main) not frivolent borrowers, they're just doing what they need to in order to buy a house. Everyone talking about interest rates are only going back to where they used to be are missing the point somewhat. Increasing a couple of percent on a loan of 4 times your salary as in the past isn't going to devastate you. Increasing a couple of percent on a loan of 11 times your salary is catastrophic. It's another example of how traditional inflation control mechanisms are not suitable for today. If they need to take heat out of the economy (and I'm still not convinced any of this is due to excessive spending) then the pain has to be spread out more equitably, not just paid for by a few mortgage holders who have taken out mortgages in the last 10-15 years. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, sidcow said: Christ on a bike. Just heard that in the 90's the average mortgage holder borrowed 3 to 4 times income. Average today is 11 (eleven) times income I feel absolutely devastated for these people. They're (in the main) not frivolent borrowers, they're just doing what they need to in order to buy a house. Everyone talking about interest rates are only going back to where they used to be are missing the point somewhat. Increasing a couple of percent on a loan of 4 times your salary as in the past isn't going to devastate you. Increasing a couple of percent on a loan of 11 times your salary is catastrophic. It's another example of how traditional inflation control mechanisms are not suitable for today. If they need to take heat out of the economy (and I'm still not convinced any of this is due to excessive spending) then the pain has to be spread out more equitably, not just paid for by a few mortgage holders who have taken out mortgages in the last 10-15 years. I’ve had a rightmove email alert thing running for years since before we moved. Plenty of houses hitting the market in the last few weeks as people seem to be trying to get out before it really bites. I’m also seeing ones that have been on the market for several months get reduced. 11x salary is absolute madness. I thought ~5x was irresponsible. Cash buyers are going to be kings. Edited June 25, 2023 by Genie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxstock92 Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 17 minutes ago, sidcow said: Christ on a bike. Just heard that in the 90's the average mortgage holder borrowed 3 to 4 times income. Average today is 11 (eleven) times income I feel absolutely devastated for these people. They're (in the main) not frivolent borrowers, they're just doing what they need to in order to buy a house. Everyone talking about interest rates are only going back to where they used to be are missing the point somewhat. Increasing a couple of percent on a loan of 4 times your salary as in the past isn't going to devastate you. Increasing a couple of percent on a loan of 11 times your salary is catastrophic. It's another example of how traditional inflation control mechanisms are not suitable for today. If they need to take heat out of the economy (and I'm still not convinced any of this is due to excessive spending) then the pain has to be spread out more equitably, not just paid for by a few mortgage holders who have taken out mortgages in the last 10-15 years. Just to alleviate any concerns, the loan itself wont be 11 x salary, more likely average house price is. There is no way any lender will lend 11 x salary to anyone*, as you say it’s insane. I’ve done mortgage affordability assessments for 8+ years and generally the absolute max is 5 x but that’s for higher earners & v v little outgoings. Many factors come into re the multiplier such as income and outgoings, term, location, house price etc *technically BTL mortgages don’t adhere to this as the loan is based on the rent the property generates as it’s seen as a self sufficient mortgage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 25, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Loxstock92 said: Just to alleviate any concerns, the loan itself wont be 11 x salary, more likely average house price is. There is no way any lender will lend 11 x salary to anyone*, as you say it’s insane. I’ve done mortgage affordability assessments for 8+ years and generally the absolute max is 5 x but that’s for higher earners & v v little outgoings. Many factors come into re the multiplier such as income and outgoings, term, location, house price etc *technically BTL mortgages don’t adhere to this as the loan is based on the rent the property generates as it’s seen as a self sufficient mortgage. Just quoting what they said on the Tellybox this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) On 23/06/2023 at 15:27, Craigyh74 said: If ever there was a more pointless meeting..... So lenders have said they will agree, temporarily, to not repossess until you are 12 months in arrears. There will be an end date to the this agreement though, so you can imagine how quickly they will pounce once the moratorium ends..... They won't quickly pounce. Banks have absolutely no desire to repossess properties unless there is no alternative. Its simply not an effective use of their time and effort for so little reward. Edited June 25, 2023 by Xela 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 13 minutes ago, sidcow said: Average today is 11 (eleven) times income I feel absolutely devastated for these people. They're (in the main) not frivolent borrowers, they're just doing what they need to in order to buy a house. Everyone talking about interest rates are only going back to where they used to be are missing the point somewhat. Increasing a couple of percent on a loan of 4 times your salary as in the past isn't going to devastate you. Increasing a couple of percent on a loan of 11 times your salary is catastrophic. A bank lending a buyer 11x their salary (a minimum of roughly £475k, based on 2 people working 40 hours on minimum wage) is incredibly irresponsible though unless they're whacking down a 40 or 50% deposit - for the exact reasons you gave re: interest increases. Banks (should) have a responsibility to the customer as well as the other way around. When we bought ours 9 years ago we were told very strictly that we'd get roughly 4 times our combined salary and still didn't borrow all of what we were offered. We've just taken our new deal at 4.5% (from 3.2) for 5 years, and the new payments are only about £20 more than the rent we payed 10 years ago. We're fortunate that we don't have many overheads outside of necessary bills - no kids, neither of us drive and we don't drink much or smoke, but I still feel we've now had they pay off from being sensible and buying a modest house rather than trying to keep up with the Jones' and have a certain postcode/area, because those people are the ones who you read about facing £500+ extra a month, not your average homeowners with £100k mortgages. I was reading the other day that a couple in Norfolk were facing their £1300 a month payment doubling to £2,700, which is understandably terrifying. The same article contained a single woman in Hertfordshire who pays £230 a month but wont be able to afford her new rate at £1200, so her plan is for her and her mother (who was also struggling) to sell up and buy a house together in........ Norfolk! As an aside, if people are on £230 a month repayments and now hitting a £1200 one, what kind of deals were these people on that it's jumped up by 500%?! Some people now are going to be paying the price for overreaching and having unsustainable mortgages. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Yeah they've either misreported that or you've misheard it,. there's absolutely no way the average mortgage holder is borrowing 11x salary, it'll be house price:salary, which is still alarming but nowhere near as irresponsible from a lender's perspective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 hour ago, sidcow said: Christ on a bike. Just heard that in the 90's the average mortgage holder borrowed 3 to 4 times income. Average today is 11 (eleven) times income I feel absolutely devastated for these people. They're (in the main) not frivolent borrowers, they're just doing what they need to in order to buy a house. Everyone talking about interest rates are only going back to where they used to be are missing the point somewhat. Increasing a couple of percent on a loan of 4 times your salary as in the past isn't going to devastate you. Increasing a couple of percent on a loan of 11 times your salary is catastrophic. It's another example of how traditional inflation control mechanisms are not suitable for today. If they need to take heat out of the economy (and I'm still not convinced any of this is due to excessive spending) then the pain has to be spread out more equitably, not just paid for by a few mortgage holders who have taken out mortgages in the last 10-15 years. This is wrong I think. The 11x figure is average house price vs average income. Certainly you’d find it very hard to get a £330k mortgage off a £30k salary, even when interest rates were zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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