The Fun Factory Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, villa89 said: Yea it was a really poor and boring season. Never got into any good run of form, one manager who's time was up and then a new one who persisted with a formation that doesn't suit our squad, or any squad that I know of. Boring yes, not poor. We have never really got into a relegation trouble and is our 3rd season back in the top flight so some welcome consolidation. However given the noises at the start of the season we have somewhat not meet the expectations of challenging for a top half finish and will end up about 10 points less than last season. So overall just mediocre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustibrooks Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I agree that it’s a problem that can’t be fixed just by buying players. I think that SG recognises that there is a cultural problem. At clubs like his former club, Chelsea, Man City etc, they expect to win matches and trophies. Here we have an almost in built limit as to what we can achieve. We expect to be average. I’m sure it’s more complicated than that but either way it needs to be fixed. In some ways JT was a major asset to us in that respect. I’m sure he saw the problem too but wasn’t in a position to fix it and I’m sure it was a contributing factor in why he left. SG is a young and relatively inexperienced manager. To some extent he’s learning on the job. But one thing he will have recognised early is the lack of real belief, call it arrogance in the squad. No problem with NSWE but the squad don’t have the level of belief. Which is a huge reason he wanted Coutinho and why he refers to Ashley Young so frequently. They will bring fine examples as to attitude in training etc for the rest of the squad, particularly the young players but this almost undefinable quality of winning expectations is vital if we want to really move forward. He's been careful in setting reasonably achievable goals, qualify for Europe, but I’m sure both his and NSWE have much less limited ambitions behind closed doors. Definitely agree with most of this, it's a bit of a cultural problem we have at the club, when you look at teams like Real Madrid and Liverpool they seem to always be in play for a trophy even if they haven't performed that well in a season. This was always going to be a bit of a process, for the last 10 years it hasn't been great at the club, we need to get the right people with the winning mentalities at the club. That doesn't mean it has to be players over 28 all the time, it's a mindset some players have and some don't regardless of age in my own opinion. Having players like Digne, Young and Coutinho who have been used to winning/competing for things should do wonders for our squad as a whole especially the youngsters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Boring yes, not poor. We have never really got into a relegation trouble and is our 3rd season back in the top flight so some welcome consolidation. However given the noises at the start of the season we have somewhat not meet the expectations of challenging for a top half finish and will end up about 10 points less than last season. So overall just mediocre. Can’t agree, it’s been poor. How many times have you come away from games satisfied? It’s been tough to watch a lot this season. Several losing runs weighed us down as fans and really only a few times of excitement, Smith’s Man Utd result, Gerrard’s first six games and then the three wins on the trot a few months ago…I can’t really remember much beyond that. Just turning up to the ground watching another mostly poor game or watching away games on tv. I’m not expecting the world or winning consistently but just the fight we saw against Liverpool and not the poor performance we saw against Palace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Forgettable and boring season. Coming out of it I don't feel any progress has been made. Yet another rebuild in the summer. Like every summer it seems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 We don't seem to have learned that novice managers rarely thrive at villa. Collect all the big names you like - but until we get a top coach expect more of the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustibrooks Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 I think you could say its been a disappointing/poor season overall, I felt like it had potential for our season to turn out the way it did with all the disruption that has happened since summer. We had holes to fill last summer which we didn't and then Jack left along with ROK and Terry(I think people underestimated how much influence ROK and Terry had). Then we had two new coaches come in (Danks and MacPhee) along with an unbalanced squad, still with a hole to fill at DM too. Smith had to experiment a bit which didn't work out for us which was a part of the reason for why he was sacked. Gerrard came in and overall since his appointment we've be decent but we are still plagued with the inconsistency issues. We've had some good moments this year though... Bailey's cameo vs Everton, JJ's breakout season, Coutinho signing/his debut month, emergence of Buendia, Tim's introduction to the first team, Cash's improvement and even though they struggled initially I'll say Watkins/Ings partnership forming is another bright spot for the season. The bad runs we've been on with both Gerrard and Smith have been really annoying all season, especially the games where we look completely clueless hopefully with a preseason under Gerrard's belt we can start to kick on next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 55 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I agree that it’s a problem that can’t be fixed just by buying players. I think that SG recognises that there is a cultural problem. At clubs like his former club, Chelsea, Man City etc, they expect to win matches and trophies. Here we have an almost in built limit as to what we can achieve. We expect to be average. I’m sure it’s more complicated than that but either way it needs to be fixed. In some ways JT was a major asset to us in that respect. I’m sure he saw the problem too but wasn’t in a position to fix it and I’m sure it was a contributing factor in why he left. SG is a young and relatively inexperienced manager. To some extent he’s learning on the job. But one thing he will have recognised early is the lack of real belief, call it arrogance in the squad. No problem with NSWE but the squad don’t have the level of belief. Which is a huge reason he wanted Coutinho and why he refers to Ashley Young so frequently. They will bring fine examples as to attitude in training etc for the rest of the squad, particularly the young players but this almost undefinable quality of winning expectations is vital if we want to really move forward. He's been careful in setting reasonably achievable goals, qualify for Europe, but I’m sure both his and NSWE have much less limited ambitions behind closed doors. This why another signing of experience will be vital, could be Suarez for instance. His experience, mentality is just what we need. Alternatively I wouldn't be averse to signing someone like him in CM either for a season or two to nurture Iroegbunam, Chukwuemeka, Luiz, Nakamba, Ramsey etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, nick76 said: Can’t agree, it’s been poor. How many times have you come away from games satisfied? It’s been tough to watch a lot this season. Several losing runs weighed us down as fans and really only a few times of excitement, Smith’s Man Utd result, Gerrard’s first six games and then the three wins on the trot a few months ago…I can’t really remember much beyond that. Just turning up to the ground watching another mostly poor game or watching away games on tv. I’m not expecting the world or winning consistently but just the fight we saw against Liverpool and not the poor performance we saw against Palace. Compare it to the last actual premier league seasons we could watch games live- 17th, 20th, 17th, 15th, 15th, 16th. Its been an improvement. Not saying it has been particularly good but neither has it been awful. Edited May 16, 2022 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshVilla Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) Strange season really. A terrible run of form at the end of Smith's tenure derailed us, as did a big blip under Gerrard too. It was always going to be a season of transition, seeing as we lost Grealish and therefore lost the focal point of how we play. Next season will be very interesting. If we sign the calibre of player that Gerrard is after (which may become more realistic with Coutinho signing permanently), then maybe we might actually start seeing some real progress instead of rebuild after rebuild. Edited May 16, 2022 by JoshVilla Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 38 minutes ago, nick76 said: Can’t agree, it’s been poor. How many times have you come away from games satisfied? It’s been tough to watch a lot this season. Several losing runs weighed us down as fans and really only a few times of excitement, Smith’s Man Utd result, Gerrard’s first six games and then the three wins on the trot a few months ago…I can’t really remember much beyond that. Just turning up to the ground watching another mostly poor game or watching away games on tv. I’m not expecting the world or winning consistently but just the fight we saw against Liverpool and not the poor performance we saw against Palace. Yes, we might not have got into a relegation battle but has been a nothing season. Again I can accept mid table if some positivity to look forward too, we have done nothing much against the big boys this season, our style of play is boring and doesn't look very positive going forward Even yesterday in a nothing game we had a chance to play some youngsters and that didn’t happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 No chance we finish top half. I predicted 14th-16th a month ago so I’m happy to see us claw our way up to a bit better position but it’s still 12th-15th. Start of the season if you’d say we would lose Grealish and Smith and still get close to top half I think most fans would say that’s ok under the circumstances. It’s still been a very frustrating season but ultimately it’s next season where our concerns and criticisms will be more valid as Gerrard will have had a proper transfer window and pre season behind him and if his same mistakes keep happening then he will need to answer those questions imo. It’s next year where we need to push for top half. It’s always difficult as it gets harder to even just stay still as each season goes by. Next year it just has to be progression. I just want us to be better than the season before. If you say our level is now a ‘just about’ mid table team with potential to flirt with the relegation zone (13-17th) then next year the aim should be solid mid table with potential for Europe (8-12th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 25 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: Compare it to the last actual premier league seasons we could watch games live- 17th, 20th, 17th, 15th, 15th, 16th. Its been an improvement. Not saying it has been particularly good but neither has it been awful. Difference being? Under poor ownership with bang average players compared to now under great ownership, infrastructure, facilities and hundreds of millions spent on players we are in a whole world of difference. It’s been poor this season under both managers, the spectacle has mostly been poor and how many times have you been as happy after the match as before the match started. I’m always hopeful before the match but how many times have I come away disappointed or ‘meh’ from the match, yesterday being a prime day. You can look back at my comments post Liverpool game, yes we lost but we gave them a good game and as I said I was proud but I cannot say that many times this season as I would like to. Everything at the club is ready, amazing and optimistic for the future but most of what we have seen on the pitch this season looks a world away from that and that is down to Smith and Gerrard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: If you say our level is now a ‘just about’ mid table team with potential to flirt with the relegation zone (13-17th) then next year the aim should be solid mid table with potential for Europe (8-12th). I doubt the owners would accept a bottom half finish next season. I think the aim will be 5th to 8th. We have to be very close to European football at worse. I think the aim will be 60 points. I’m not sure Gerrard lasts if we end up in the bottom half next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, nick76 said: I doubt the owners would accept a bottom half finish next season. I think the aim will be 5th to 8th. We have to be very close to European football at worse. I think the aim will be 60 points. I’m not sure Gerrard lasts if we end up in the bottom half next season. 5-8th as an aim would be insanity after this season and Villa as a club always deal badly with weight of expectation. You need to spend just to stay still in this modern era and as long as we are progressing I’m happy which is why this season has been frustrating. If the owners are unrealistic then that’s their problem, I can’t change that. I’m more realistic, I’d be happy with 10th next year in a league that gets more difficult each year. As long as we are more consistent and Gerrard cuts out his weird decisions I’ll be happy. Edited May 16, 2022 by Ingram85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 2 hours ago, villa89 said: Yea it was a really poor and boring season. Never got into any good run of form, one manager who's time was up and then a new one who persisted with a formation that doesn't suit our squad, or any squad that I know of. Last season must have been very shit then as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 1 hour ago, nick76 said: Can’t agree, it’s been poor. How many times have you come away from games satisfied? It’s been tough to watch a lot this season. Several losing runs weighed us down as fans and really only a few times of excitement, Smith’s Man Utd result, Gerrard’s first six games and then the three wins on the trot a few months ago…I can’t really remember much beyond that. Just turning up to the ground watching another mostly poor game or watching away games on tv. I’m not expecting the world or winning consistently but just the fight we saw against Liverpool and not the poor performance we saw against Palace. How many times did we see that last season? A good result followed by a poor one Poor season is abit over dramatic in my opinion If your not entertained thats different. But not poor for me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: How many times did we see that last season? A good result followed by a poor one Poor season is abit over dramatic in my opinion If your not entertained thats different. But not poor for me What were your expectations before this season started? If I could find the thread i am sure a lot of people expected a European challenge We are 12 points from 7th, last season we were 7 points from 7th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: This why another signing of experience will be vital, could be Suarez for instance. His experience, mentality is just what we need. Alternatively I wouldn't be averse to signing someone like him in CM either for a season or two to nurture Iroegbunam, Chukwuemeka, Luiz, Nakamba, Ramsey etc. I agree and believe that SG is looking for some players that can bring that mentality and help that develop and eventually flow throughput the club. It’ll take some time but buying some more experienced player with that mentality will hopefully help and speed up the process. Our squad is overall young and generally that’s a good thing for many reasons, but a better balance between youth and experience will help as we progress. Attracting the right quality is an advantage that SG brings to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 37 minutes ago, Zatman said: What were your expectations before this season started? If I could find the thread i am sure a lot of people expected a European challenge We are 12 points from 7th, last season we were 7 points from 7th I expected top 10 and above- but i wasnt expecting smith to get sacked either. Expectations have to change when a mew manager comes in i think If wr have another season like this next year then i would be inclined to agree that its been a poor season. Its just a lot of un necessary moaning at the mo. Yesterdays game wasnt even that bad and the way people go on its like we lost heavily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ingram85 said: 5-8th as an aim would be insanity after this season and Villa as a club always deal badly with weight of expectation. You need to spend just to stay still in this modern era and as long as we are progressing I’m happy which is why this season has been frustrating. If the owners are unrealistic then that’s their problem, I can’t change that. I’m more realistic, I’d be happy with 10th next year in a league that gets more difficult each year. As long as we are more consistent and Gerrard cuts out his weird decisions I’ll be happy. I don’t think Smith would’ve been sacked if the owners would generally be happy with 10th. Yes Smith went on a bad run but we would never be relegated and just as he went on a bad run, his tenure showed he would just as likely to follow that with a good run. He got fired because he was on a bad run through 2021 and the board want more, expect more and that certainly isn’t 10th. We are only just shy of 10th place this season, I really don’t the owners to be happy with another season of points and performances as this season. 9th to 15th have currently 5 points difference, I can’t imagine the owners wanting to spend all that money to stay in that same group. They were ruthless in sacking Smith and brought in Gerrard as the “upgrade” to take us to the next level. I can’t imagine bringing in Gerrard to hover around 10th is what they were thinking. Edited May 16, 2022 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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