theunderstudy Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 Yeah I keep hearing the Spoiler Halbrand = Sauron Theory.... one thing that doesn't make sense is Spoiler Why Sauron would save the life of a Noldor elf. Him being a Smith and also on the island of Numenor primed to take over and weaken Ar-Pharazons mind with power is the big red flags. I still wonder who Adar is if that's the case given he's an elf so not one of the future Nazgul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted September 18, 2022 Share Posted September 18, 2022 2 hours ago, theunderstudy said: Yeah I keep hearing the Reveal hidden contents Halbrand = Sauron Theory.... one thing that doesn't make sense is Reveal hidden contents Why Sauron would save the life of a Noldor elf. Him being a Smith and also on the island of Numenor primed to take over and weaken Ar-Pharazons mind with power is the big red flags. I still wonder who Adar is if that's the case given he's an elf so not one of the future Nazgul The one thing? Show is full of bad writing. My explanation Spoiler The writers want the audience to trust Halbrand, so saving Galadriel makes them trust him. This will increase their surprise when he turns out to be Sauron. This is the same writers that had Galadriel jump into the ocean with what a plan to swim back to Middle earth!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daft Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 On 17/09/2022 at 10:31, CVByrne said: Probably the worst episode yet. It's such poor writing. Also a very boring show. Reveal hidden contents Pharazon with his speech in the streets, suddenly ends with "drinks for everyone" and out of nowhere on the street is lots of waiters handing out drinks!! Isildur letting a rope slip and then he and his friends catch it. This leads to all three of them being fired for good !! Celebrimror your father said to me, "one day my future will be in his sons hands" I totally forgot that, it only came back to me now. The sun is plot armour. Orcs can fight in the sun when the story requires it and can't go out in the sun when the story requires it. Adar lets Arondir go to deliver a message, yet his Orcs pursue him and try to kill him!! I mean this is some of the worst writing and characterization I have ever seen. It's bad even by the modern, bland, and useless standards people are getting used to. Are they using kids as writers, or are they just that clueless as to how to tell a good story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 5 hours ago, daft said: I mean this is some of the worst writing and characterization I have ever seen. It's bad even by the modern, bland, and useless standards people are getting used to. Are they using kids as writers, or are they just that clueless as to how to tell a good story? It's really down to the fact that show runners with no experience at all about making any show off any description were hired to run this project. It's so baffling how such a massive budget was handed over to these two and it's clear to see they're out of their depth. Generally experienced show runners can rely on a wealth of experienced talent they have worked with on past projects. Everything from writing staff, to casting directors etc.. Compare to House of the Dragon which has lots of experienced people steering the ship and has George R R Martin to oversee the adaptation etc. This is also a big factor in the poor writing in RoP. Lack of much source material to adapt and the choice to near completely break from what material and lore there is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 On 08/09/2022 at 08:22, CVByrne said: As for ROP, I think Amazon made a big mistake. They got inexperienced show runners recommended by JJ Abrams in 2018 and a long production time. They really didn't understand how big the fandom of Tolkien is and how much they've read and studied the books and the Lore. This isn't like Marvel fans with millions of comics and reboots and changes happening throughout history and lots of movie and show attempts over the years. There is one world here Arda, one set of characters and fans know them intimately. The error was they treated it like a Marvel adaption, we just need character names, a setting and we'll do the rest. Where Peter Jackson knew he had to stick to the spirit of Tolkien and knew this was key to the success. People love the Tolkien books, people love the Jackson movies. This ROP is just generic content, it's not Tolkien. Or they just made a LotR show that they want to appeal to a wider audience than appease the fans... They can't make a big budget TV show for the people you describe because it's not enough people, the hardcore fandom that know what all of this should be isn't that big, the loose fandom based on the films and not a lot else is huge I would go the other way and say at times they lean too heavily on assumed knowledge, I had to look up who isuldur was because I'd forgot My problem with it is its just a bit wet, none of it is clicking or has any real heft to it, the films for example establish the hobbits first and then build the ensemble around them and then splits them up but we all know their purpose, the way this jumps around that isn't working, all the harfoot stuff is shite, elrond feels shoe horned just to get him and dwarves in the mix, the galadriel story and the black elf who's name I don't even remember are both OK, it needs to come together fast because it's far from must watch TV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 Galadriel feels like a petulant American modern teenager which isn't great. The writing is very far from Tolkien-ish IMO and quite poor. Even thou they are condensing it something spectacular (so they don't have to change out the human characters every ep) it still feels disjointed and bland. It's still miles better than their attempt on The Wheel Of Times but it's still only a 6/10 for me and it's not really improving, more like the opposite sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 It's not terrible but the writing really is poor imo. It should be epic (especially considering the budget) but it feels small, condensed and rushed and it doesn't really make sense. Plot or characters. This episode was a bit like the latter days of GOT in places although I guess Tolkien has form for it with his Eagles with impeccable timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Money well spent. I would love to hear the discussions going on higher up the chain, cus the level of incompetence on so many levels in relation to this adaptation, is almost hard to believe, and that's even knowing recent history with the vast amount of poor adaptations. How these people get work, or were let anywhere near the coffers, is completely beyond me, I swear I could write better, and I'm not even joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 Like it's incredible how bad this writing is. Then on top of that, it's clear they've only watched the Peter Jackson movies and then decided to make up their own prequel as if they were working for Disney. Let's make up origin stories for things people saw in those movies. People love memberberries. Like you know they've clearly thought about what they thought would generate social media discussion. They want to generate fan theories and have revelations. it's absolutely hilarious how this show is perfectly encapsulates this current time in media. The focus is on a pre set list of boxes and they just made up scenes and dialogue to fill in around it. Things happen because they need it to and that leads to the hilarious stupidity of the show. It really is fascinating to watch for those reasons. From the Bezos "I want an Amazon game of Thrones" to what we are seeing. They have tried to back solve. Let's do a season so we start slowly and then we get all these big moments and people will be all over twitter. The fact House of the Dragon is on at the same time allows a brilliant comparison of how to create a show. So for me Rings of Power is a fascinating watch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 Well, not being at all bothered by any adherence to the ‘lore’ or ever having been a big Tolkien fan anyway, I find all of it fairly entertaining and visually attractive. It serves its purpose for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 3, 2022 Share Posted October 3, 2022 6 minutes ago, El Zen said: Well, not being at all bothered by any adherence to the ‘lore’ or ever having been a big Tolkien fan anyway, I find all of it fairly entertaining and visually attractive. It serves its purpose for me. Watching it now and I'm the same Got no real issue with the writing or whether or not it's pissing on chips I haven't seen anything yet that pisses on LOTR or the hobbit I don't think it's brilliant, it doesn't all work but there's just about enough there, me tonight watching half of episode 4 and episode 5 says a lot though, still don't think it's must watch probably won't watch episode 6 until the weekend 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 11 hours ago, villa4europe said: Watching it now and I'm the same Got no real issue with the writing or whether or not it's pissing on chips I haven't seen anything yet that pisses on LOTR or the hobbit I don't think it's brilliant, it doesn't all work but there's just about enough there, me tonight watching half of episode 4 and episode 5 says a lot though, still don't think it's must watch probably won't watch episode 6 until the weekend Have to agree it's totally fine as throwaway streaming content. I watched all of Wheel of Time and know nothing of the books. My personal taste is for less idiotic writing than RoP gives however. I'll still watch it to pass the time. I'll probably watch next season of Wheel of Time too. They're not good shows but they fit the content bill for an hour a week. I think in the context of what Amazon wanted from the billion spent on RoP, to be must watch TV, mass cultural event with massive social media chatter and audiences willing to take a $20 per year price hike in Prime subscription costs for content like this. I think it's likely failed at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 24 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I think in the context of what Amazon wanted from the billion spent on RoP, to be must watch TV, mass cultural event with massive social media chatter and audiences willing to take a $20 per year price hike in Prime subscription costs for content like this. I think it's likely failed at that. yeah id agree with that, ive seen the next episode has great reviews but i would say the show so far is missing the word "epic" and its missing it by a distance, its gone for big scale and its not achieved it, I'm not watching GoT house of the dragon to make a comparison with but comparing it to the original series its way off, maybe set some benchmarks for production and design etc but in terms of everything else its falling short, its not even amazon's best show IMO probably has a wider audience than the boys but the boys is a lot better i doubt amazon use netflix's mind boggling statistical data analysis but i would imagine the drop off, which netflix use as their key indicator, is massive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 the last episode was really good. I have my problems with the series, but one thing you can't fault is the fighting scenes - really good and above similar I have seen from fantasy/medieval genre. Also, my mrs is not a tolkien fan and she is loving it. Maybe that's the key - lower expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, villa4europe said: yeah id agree with that, ive seen the next episode has great reviews but i would say the show so far is missing the word "epic" and its missing it by a distance, its gone for big scale and its not achieved it, I'm not watching GoT house of the dragon to make a comparison with but comparing it to the original series its way off, maybe set some benchmarks for production and design etc but in terms of everything else its falling short, its not even amazon's best show IMO probably has a wider audience than the boys but the boys is a lot better i doubt amazon use netflix's mind boggling statistical data analysis but i would imagine the drop off, which netflix use as their key indicator, is massive Episode 6 lots of budget spent but it's the most idiotic writing yet. So if spectacle trumps any basic logic then yeah it's the best episode yet. The reason it's not epic is because the writers aren't any good. They should have started with one or maybe two of the stories and built from there adding in the others as they build and expand the scope and then weave them together. The other issue is they can't write compelling characters. Like nobody likes Galadriel, she's not a likeable protagonist to hinge the show on. It takes skill to develop characters and that's something the writers certainly lack. I still am amazed why Amazon gave the largest budget ever to two people who have no official writing credits and absolutely zero experience as show runners. It's such a bizzare decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 yeah agree on the ensemble nature of it not working, there is the weird thing that out of the 4 story arcs (?) 3 of the main characters are elves and they've almost purposefully tried to make the elves cold which then means you struggle to connect with them, the 4th character the harfoot girl is then so far pointless and shit i dont watch it thinking "i hope they jump back to galadriel next" i also think they've missed a trick by not telling the antagonist story arc from the perspective of the antagonist which is something that the films did, the orcs get screen time through the narrative of the black elf, why? they haven't got the orcs / elves / humans / dwarves / hobbit balance right, again the films gave the first hour? or first say 50%+ to the hobbits, they established the hobbits and then built around them, this doesnt like i said ive not read more source material than LOTR and the hobbit so im not overly fussed but if id come in to this completely cold having not read or seen anything im not sure what id make of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, Mic09 said: the last episode was really good. I have my problems with the series, but one thing you can't fault is the fighting scenes - really good and above similar I have seen from fantasy/medieval genre. Also, my mrs is not a tolkien fan and she is loving it. Maybe that's the key - lower expectations. Yeah, like the Fast and Furious series for example. People go for the spectacle not good writing and absolutely not for any basic logic. Sure, Arnie in Commando, I love that film but there's absolutely no logic. My brain is off. Michael Bay has made a career of leave your brain at the door cinema. My advice for people on this show would be, ignore the bad writing, forget anything about Tolkien and try binge watch all 8 episodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 Netflix aren't half churning out some shite of late, and this is really, really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Risso said: Netflix aren't half churning out some shite of late, and this is really, really bad. It's the model though. Netflix makes ridiculous amount of shows and hopes for a hit every so often. Like Stranger Things or Squid Game. They need just enough content to make people keep paying the subscription fees Amazon is different, they know they really lose money on Prime but because the majority of people who have Prime have it for the free postage not their streaming content. They've gone down this path of RoP and Wheel of Time to see if they can make it a self sustainable profitable service and charge additional $20 per year. Apple is in the streaming service now too. It's becoming a crowded market, especially in US. Edited October 4, 2022 by CVByrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, Risso said: Netflix aren't half churning out some shite of late, and this is really, really bad. so bad that it isnt netflix and yeah netflix percentage wise has dropped off, they've gone too scattergun and its too unwieldy trying to please too many people, probably not a surprise that disney with their tighter structure have overtaken them, i would say netflix currently have more programmes aimed at my wife than they do at me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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