Steven Gerrard

[TRO]

54 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

Nope it's different. 

Arteta has always been a student of the game and he learned his trade under Pep. 

Gerrard is a complete novice who doesn't even coach the players. 

I didn't hear that being rolled out, when the pitchforks and Flame torches was out, when Arsenal was losing.

Edited October 17, 2022 by TRO

[avfc1982am]

36 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Might be wrong here but didn't arteta reduce the average age of the squad and get rid of his bigger names who coasted through games every week?

Gerrard has done the opposite

Funnily enough I've been watching the Arsenal Doc. Arguments for similarities between Arteta and Gerrard are ridiculous. One is a coach of the highest quality, a manager of young men and an inspirational figure, the other isn't even a coach. 

Arteta is infectious in a similar way to Pep and Poch. And your definitely not wrong, they're being very well run at the moment from Edu downwards. Reducing the wages whilst bringing in high quality youngsters. Plus, it never took Arteta more than a year to get a tune out of his team or set up to play to their strengths. They've spent serious money though even if reducing the wages. 

[duke313]

Just now, TRO said:

I didn't hear that being rolled out, when the pitchforks and Flame torches was out, when Aseanl was losing.

Arsenal fans are some of the most entitled/worst fans in the league. Only Liverpool and United fans are worse.

[Ingram85]

Game by game by game by game by game by zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[nick76]

43 minutes ago, TRO said:

If we finish where we are now, the claims, will have far more legitimacy....but a quarter of the season has gone, and th Start is mega frustrating.

You’re missing this is continuing from last season…9 points in 10 games this season but go back further and we are 18 points in 21 games.  It’s not just about this season, the preseason that we were told he needed has had no effect and we are still continuing at the same level.  

The legitimacy comes from nothing has changed, we continue on the same path as arguably most of his tenure….all the stats that people are posting page after page just show from many different angles how poor it’s been this season, back into last season…

In fact the legitimacy question should be directed at those who are trying to put a positive spin on Gerrard staying our manager, or positive claims for him, when everything says he should be relieved of his duties.

[Adam2003]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

Steven Gerrard, right now has players, who are not doing what it says on the tin consistently.....blame his coaching all you want, but some of the issues are clear to anyone watching, the players are also at fault.

Ok fine, have it your way - the players are crap and the manager is crap as well. Which of those can the club fix today?

[TRO]

Just now, duke313 said:

Arsenal fans are some of the most entitled/worst fans in the league. Only Liverpool and United fans are worse.

That's not the point.....The point is, they were wrong.....when they all thought they was right.

Look, I am not saying, I am right......but there is a huge, bunch of money and disruption involved, if we get it wrong again.

We thought we was right getting rid of Dean, maybe we was wrong.

I accept, only when someone goes, does the criteria, become clearer.

where I differ to many is......I don't accept, all that happens in a match, is the managers fault....not in terms of their play, anyway......If they have bought them, then yes, its their fault.

 

[Dale]

8 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Reducing the wages whilst bringing in high quality youngsters.

The opposite of the Gerrard strategy. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

How long is his contract? I thought it was only 3 years and we are almost through half of that.  It’s not like he’s got 4 years left or something.

Maybe the next one should be 12 months or 38 games....eventually, we'll get it right.

[StefanAVFC]

Best squad we've had in years with the worst manager we've probably ever had.

"the players aren't good enough"

[bose]

Seriously can we close this thread until he’s sacked? There is nothing left to debate and we’re just going in circles.

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

That's not the point.....The point is, they were wrong.....when they all thought they was right.

Look, I am not saying, I am right......but there is a huge, bunch of money and disruption involved, if we get it wrong again.

We thought we was right getting rid of Dean, maybe we was wrong.

I accept, only when someone goes, does the criteria, become clearer.

where I differ to many is......I don't accept, all that happens in a match, is the managers fault....not in terms of their play, anyway......If they have bought them, then yes, its their fault.

 

But he’s done nothing to improve us over his tenure…if he’s doing nothing to fix all these apparent issues then why are we paying him £100k per week.  

His job is to manage and coach the team but we are basically in the same place as last season which the board felt wasn’t good enough.  

We haven’t seen an indication that it will get better and if the players arent doing it  and he can’t get them to do it, what is the point of him being here?

We of course don’t know what going on behind the scenes but where it matters on the pitch he’s adding no benefit.  

In some ways disruption could be the very best thing we could do because it isn’t working at the moment.  Plus what are we disrupting? we are on course for relegation fighting based on the ppg this season and based on the last 21 games, surely disrupting that is a good thing.

[est1874]

16 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Arsenal fans are some of the most entitled/worst fans in the league. Only Liverpool and United fans are worse.

We're pretty bad too though. Just looking at it objectively. I know we're huge, and we know we're huge, but it must seem baffling from the outside, how impatient we are. So whatever we might think of Arsenal fans, most neutrals / other clubs fans probably think of us too.

[Pinebro]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

I didn't hear that being rolled out, when the pitchforks and Flame torches was out, when Arsenal was losing.

It was mixed support. 

He still had the majority backing him because they saw what he was trying to build with recruiting younger players and integrating academy players. It was always obviously a clear plan and a plan they stuck to. 

We are the opposite. Gerrard got no support and mostly signs older players while not blooding academy players into the first team. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Pinebro

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

Maybe the next one should be 12 months or 38 games....eventually, we'll get it right.

3 years is fine, if it works out the great the manager deserves a pay rise.  If it fails it’s not the biggest pay out that could seriously hurt a club.  I don’t paying off Gerrard is the biggest issue.

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, nick76 said:

You’re missing this is continuing from last season…9 points in 10 games this season but go back further and we are 18 points in 21 games.  It’s not just about this season, the preseason that we were told he needed has had no effect and we are still continuing at the same level.  

The legitimacy comes from nothing has changed, we continue on the same path as arguably most of his tenure….all the stats that people are posting page after page just show from many different angles how poor it’s been this season, back into last season…

In fact the legitimacy question should be directed at those who are trying to put a positive spin on Gerrard staying our manager, or positive claims for him, when everything says he should be relieved of his duties.

If you go on 2022.....its a fair observation......I think the preseason was pretty successful too, which would be a fair observation.....I think the failure by the club to strengthen after Kamara, would be a fair observation too...and the puny mentality aginst Bournemouth, set the tone for this season.

I look at the Coutinho and Digne signing as making the already lightweight team even more lightweight.....despite Phillipe, making an encouraging start, I think this league is too physical for him.

Does everything say that, The results do, granted, but not everything for me.......albeit the draw at Leeds is looking ok, after their performance against the League Leaders.

For me right now, as opposed to knowing how to win, we seem to know how to lose.....that's a mentality issue......If we can get a manager, to reverse that, we might have a chance, otherwise, the players themselves have to find it.

[viivvaa66]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

That's not the point.....The point is, they were wrong.....when they all thought they was right.

Look, I am not saying, I am right......but there is a huge, bunch of money and disruption involved, if we get it wrong again.

We thought we was right getting rid of Dean, maybe we was wrong.

I accept, only when someone goes, does the criteria, become clearer.

where I differ to many is......I don't accept, all that happens in a match, is the managers fault....not in terms of their play, anyway......If they have bought them, then yes, its their fault.

 

Once up a time there were a manager that was disliked by the fan, but later he showed he was the real deal, therefore all other disliked manager will become good manager. Is that your argument?

Is there something in a match that could be consider the managers fault/responsibility, or is all down to the players, in your view? Or are you saying that the manager have to replace every player in the squad before any responsibility is directed his way? 

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

9 games doesn't either.

Look, you could be right, he has to go, but they said that about Arteta too......and lets not come out with the bollox, that its different, its not.....them fans wanted him out, more than we want SG out.

Fortunes, do not always relate to the work being done, in training.....Not when, you want it to, fortunes changing can be adhoc.

We played some good stuff on Sunday.....we also made some poor decisions, ( McGinn trying to fire throught the keeper, when Ings was ready for a tap in) and we also made some stupid rickets....Mings and Martinez....2 of our most trusted servants.

I don't think, there is enough evidence, thats my point......I think there is enough conjecture, or supposition, but thats all......That is not the same as saying everything is ok, because its not.

 

I know that 9 games doesn’t represent a season, but to be told that failure to meet the continuous progression goal of the club was the reason that Dean was (rightly) dismissed, but then to keep Gerrard is wrong. He’s here nearly a year now and we have in no way progressed. What’s the basis for keeping him? Fleeting gallant defeats against the top 6? We had more success against the top 6 with Dean at the helm.

There are very clear differences between him and Arteta. I’ve laid them out before, but essentially Arteta sees it as his job to create scenarios where goalscoring chances are created. Based on Gerrard‘s comments and the fact that he only changes his front 3 from game to game, it’s clear to me that he sees it as the players‘ responsibility. How many times have we heard “we were just missing that creative spark” or “we just couldn’t find a way through” or my personal favourite (I think he only said it once though) “we were just throwing subs at it at the end in order to create something”.

I think that there is enough evidence to say at the moment he’s not good enough. I’m not going to stubbornly stick to this opinion if he turns it around and I was never against him no matter what from the start. If this was our first season up from the championship and we were performing like this I’d be delighted. It’s not and we’ve not had continuous progression for about a season and a half now. It’s time to give a manager/head coach who is proven at a higher level than 16th in the PL the job, provided we can get one. 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

albeit the draw at Leeds is looking ok

Are you kidding? 10 men, flapping keeper….

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

For me right now, as opposed to knowing how to win, we seem to know how to lose.....that's a mentality issue......If we can get a manager, to reverse that, we might have a chance, otherwise, the players themselves have to find it.

Yeah it’s the managers job to change that and he hasn’t been able to do it under his tenure, what’s suddenly going to change?

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I look at the Coutinho and Digne signing as making the already lightweight team even more lightweight.....despite Phillipe, making an encouraging start, I think this league is too physical for him.

Gerrard’s buys!  Gerrard still plays him from the start more often than not.

I don’t understand the constant misdirection from Gerrard’s fault on a majority of these issues.  I get there are other issues at the club and with the players but I don’t see what Gerrard is offering us at all.  He’s not getting it out of the players, he only gets part performances out of the team against the Sky6 but we still generally lose and we are poor most other games against lesser teams.  

For all the traits a manager/coach has to have in relation to on the pitch he’s providing nothing.  The mentality of the players, tactics, team picking, subs, outwitting opposing managers….the list can go on.  He’s not having an impact on this team and that’s his job!

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

It was mixed support. 

He still had the majority backing him because they saw what he was trying to build with recruiting younger players and integrating academy players. It was always obviously a clear plan and a plan they stuck to. 

We are the opposite. Gerrard got no support and mostly signs older players while not blooding academy players into the first team. 

you mean Saka, Martinelli, Smith-Rowe, Saliba and Nketiah.........I think if we had that calibre and volume of young talent, we would be in a better place too.