Steven Gerrard

[TRO]

On 23/08/2022 at 10:46, nick76 said:

He says that all the time, he just seems to say it as something he’s meant to say it but doesn’t believe it. We can’t know if he believes or not but just looks like he says as a football cliche because he then just goes on to blame the players and never seems to say anything he needs to sort.  He’s great at media but I’ve stopped watching them because it feels like watching a savvy politician that he knows what to say to every question.  While that’s ok, I don’t see anything the following week that shows that it was anything but words.

That’s the problem it doesn’t look like he’s taking them to the water.  These players have the talent but he’s not getting it out of them, that suggests he’s not taking them to the water, he doesn’t know where the water is.  

These may not be the best players in the world but he’s not getting even the average out of any of them.  I can’t name any player that is playing well or even decent at the moment.  When it’s all of them it’s a coaching problem more so that an individual issue and you seem to suggest the other way around.

Not really, Nick....because I am not saying you are wrong, because I simply don't know, enough of whats going on behind the scenes to arrest the slide, in performances.....I'm not going to be fooled by a Div 1 team win, against whom, we still went behind, before recovering.

Nick, have you stopped to consider, that behind the scenes, they could be doing everything they can, buts its just not working......yet....just like Arteta experienced at Arsenal.

If that is the case and I say IF....The owners will give him time.

You are assuming "A " is not working so " B" is the problem.....without actually knowing what work is being pursued to remedy it, its speculative.....Has Brendan Rodgers suddenly become a bad manager? unless we know all the detail its hard to make hard and fast conclusions.

You could be bang on by the way.....He needs to go.....but don't you think the owners, would know that, I trust, you still have faith in them.

Unconditionly, defending him, is not what, I am attempting to do, because I too am disappointed in what I am seeing.......and for me, its been going on for seasons, not months.....and sadly, I don't think recruitment wise we are helping ourselves.

 

[WakefieldVillan]

1 hour ago, CarryOnVilla said:

Last night wasn’t a good look for ol Stevie G, despite the flattering score line. So much happened that showed how out of his depth he currently is… 

He chose a team that was overkill for the team we were playing. Of course this was to ensure a win, not a win for Villa’s progression in the cup, but a win to keep his job. Regardless of what team he put out, he would of lost his job if Villa lost the match, so he played it as safe as possible.  

Worst part of it, this team still struggled to over come Bolton’s second string team. The entire first half was dictated by Bolton’s play and Villa had no answer to it. Villa still faced the same problems as they always do, over committing midfielders and wing backs to attacking play and leaving massive open spaces in the middle of the pitch, which allows the opposition so much time and space to play their game, such as Bolton. When playing Prem teams it could be chalked off as a tactical mismatch, or an idea that needs work. when it’s happening to League 1 reserves with near enough our best team… it’s a tactical blunder that needs scrapping ASAP… but as things stand, I don’t see Stevie having a plan B or even a plan back to basics… 

As of the assets we got, I’d say drop McGinn or Ramsey for Doug and ask him to stay back on attacking plays and support Boubs if faced with counters or quick turn arounds. And only have 1 full back in the attacking play and the other staying back. Swapping the duties throughout the match. At the very least it makes us harder to be dominated.

To be fair from the moment he arrived he has iterated that he wants to win a trophy, or at least go as far as he can. Don't get why people are using this as a stick to beat him with. Surely our manager wanting to win silverware is a good thing, no?

I agree with our "style of football" not working and it's all looking a bit bleak for him/us at the moment, but we badly needed a win last night and we got it, hopefully we can kick on from that.

 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Not really, Nick....because I am not saying you are wrong, because I simply don't know, enough of whats going on behind the scenes to arrest the slide, in performances.....I'm not going to be fooled by a Div 1 team win, against whom, we still went behind, before recovering.

Nick, have you stopped to consider, that behind the scenes, they could be doing everything they can, buts its just not working......yet....just like Arteta experienced at Arsenal.

If that is the case and I say IF....The owners will give him time.

You are assuming "A " is not working so " B" is the problem.....without actually knowing what work is being pursued to remedy it, its speculative.....Has Brendan Rodgers suddenly become a bad manager? unless we know all the detail its hard to make hard and fast conclusions.

You could be bang on by the way.....He needs to go.....but don't you think the owners, would know that, I trust, you still have faith in them.

Unconditionly, defending him, is not what, I am attempting to do, because I too am disappointed in what I am seeing.......and for me, its been going on for seasons, not months.....and sadly, I don't think recruitment wise we are helping ourselves.

 

It’s plain to see it’s mostly down to coaching.  You can defend SG as much as you do but I can’t unsee what my eyes are seeing and what the stats are showing.  The majority of fans are saying it.  

I can’t vouch for what the owners thoughts are, they will do what they do but my 40 odd years of watching and playing football as much as I do, as much as many fans do gives us valuable insight. Coaching is the main problem here.

[Peter Griffin]

17 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

It could look worse in three games time. The point is Dean was sacked for not making progress but perhaps the alarm bells started to really ring when we thought we may be dragged into a relegation  fight. 
 

Peope saying we shouldn’t have sacked Dean because we’d be no worse off than we are now are missing the point. The aim is to appoint a manager that is better than Dean and to move us forward. Perhaps when SG was appointed the first thing on his to do list was to halt the slide which he did. Unfortunately since then he hasn’t improved us.
 

The next three games will perhaps set the alarm bells ringing. Saying two of them are very tough isn’t completely  irrelevant, however writing off games against top six teams is not only alarmingly defeatist and I doubt a view shared by NSWE, but it also means we can only get our points from 26 games. Even to get to 40 points we’d need just over 1.5 points per game. We’re not currently achieving that and we’ve played 3 games against, theoretically at least, none top 6 teams already. 

I agree Dave, yes it could look worse in 3 games and Gerrard was brought in to presumably be better than Deano and not continue the status quo. Last season SG will have got some credit with CP and NSWE for quickly reversing the slide towards relegation. This was really important and he delivered. Unfortunately, since then there has been very little to cheer about and then we need to take in account that we have invested in players too. I expect SG will be judged on his performance this season and will be given time. But the tolerance levels will be lower due to the lack of improvement last season. SG will have very little credit with DP and NSWE and if it goes wrong I expect the decision to remove him will be swift

[Peter Griffin]

9 minutes ago, nick76 said:

It’s plain to see it’s mostly down to coaching.  You can defend SG as much as you do but I can’t unsee what my eyes are seeing and what the stats are showing.  The majority of fans are saying it.  

I can’t vouch for what the owners thoughts are, they will do what they do but my 40 odd years of watching and playing football as much as I do, as much as many fans do gives us valuable insight. Coaching is the main problem here.

Have u tried a cheap bottle of vodka from Aldi? If u can down it all in the space of  about 90 mins it should do the trick

[CarryOnVilla]

11 minutes ago, WakefieldVillan said:

To be fair from the moment he arrived he has iterated that he wants to win a trophy, or at least go as far as he can. Don't get why people are using this as a stick to beat him with. Surely our manager wanting to win silverware is a good thing, no?

I agree with our "style of football" not working and it's all looking a bit bleak for him/us at the moment, but we badly needed a win last night and we got it, hopefully we can kick on from that.

 

Yeah he wants to win trophies, so does every manager… yet, not all managers are trying to swot a fly with a nuke. Bolton can be beat with the likes of Sanson, Nakamba, Olsen, AEG, Ludwig and the youngsters playing. 

Pointless having squad depth if it’s not being used. More so when the fist 11 are not looking too sharp at the moment. These games are a free pass to look at the other players. 

[The Fun Factory]

I haven't seen as much fervent debate on Villa Talk since the days of Ashley Westwood.

[Peter Griffin]

11 minutes ago, nick76 said:

It’s plain to see it’s mostly down to coaching.  You can defend SG as much as you do but I can’t unsee what my eyes are seeing and what the stats are showing.  The majority of fans are saying it.  

I can’t vouch for what the owners thoughts are, they will do what they do but my 40 odd years of watching and playing football as much as I do, as much as many fans do gives us valuable insight. Coaching is the main problem here.

I think all fans are saying it and nobody is trying to defend it. However, none of us know what is happening in training or what is being discussed. Is it possible that Gerrard et al are aware of the problem and have agreed a plan to resolve it and are trying to make something happen? We just don't know what is happening, I believe that is the reason that some people may not want SG replaced without giving him more games. People want to see if an improvement is going to happen

[CarryOnVilla]

Just now, The Fun Factory said:

I haven't seen as much fervent debate on Villa Talk since the days of Ashley Westwood.

[nick76]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

I think all fans are saying it and nobody is trying to defend it. However, none of us know what is happening in training or what is being discussed. Is it possible that Gerrard et al are aware of the problem and have agreed a plan to resolve it and are trying to make something happen? We just don't know what is happening, I believe that is the reason that some people may not want SG replaced without giving him more games. People want to see if an improvement is going to happen

Just not seen anything in the last 9 months to warrant that belief for me.

[TRO]

20 hours ago, nick76 said:

It’s plain to see it’s mostly down to coaching.  You can defend SG as much as you do but I can’t unsee what my eyes are seeing and what the stats are showing.  The majority of fans are saying it.  

I can’t vouch for what the owners thoughts are, they will do what they do but my 40 odd years of watching and playing football as much as I do, as much as many fans do gives us valuable insight. Coaching is the main problem here.

“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Nick, It could be coaching, but it might not be in isolation....it could be other factors in conjunction with coaching.

blimey, we have only just signed a new coach, after losing a hignly rated one that presided over 12 defeats in 29 games.

I see the same games as you, but maybe my interpretation is different.....where i agree with you, its a shitshow right now, and defensive organisation is flown with the fairies.

You want to blame it entirely on coaching, I think its  broader than that, but still including it.

Edited August 25, 2022 by TRO

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I think all fans are saying it and nobody is trying to defend it. However, none of us know what is happening in training or what is being discussed. Is it possible that Gerrard et al are aware of the problem and have agreed a plan to resolve it and are trying to make something happen? We just don't know what is happening, I believe that is the reason that some people may not want SG replaced without giving him more games. People want to see if an improvement is going to happen

I don't remember that one being thrown out last year, or for the likes or Bruce, Sherwood, Lambert etc..

 

[TRO]

20 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

It could look worse in three games time. The point is Dean was sacked for not making progress but perhaps the alarm bells started to really ring when we thought we may be dragged into a relegation  fight. 
 

Peope saying we shouldn’t have sacked Dean because we’d be no worse off than we are now are missing the point. The aim is to appoint a manager that is better than Dean and to move us forward. Perhaps when SG was appointed the first thing on his to do list was to halt the slide which he did. Unfortunately since then he hasn’t improved us.
 

The next three games will perhaps set the alarm bells ringing. Saying two of them are very tough isn’t completely  irrelevant, however writing off games against top six teams is not only alarmingly defeatist and I doubt a view shared by NSWE, but it also means we can only get our points from 26 games. Even to get to 40 points we’d need just over 1.5 points per game. We’re not currently achieving that and we’ve played 3 games against, theoretically at least, none top 6 teams already. 

The irony is Dave, he halted the slide, by making us a bit harder to play against.....then he signed Countinho and Digne....two very talented but light weight players, since then we have gone backwards in terms of "Hard to play against"

If they are to stay in the team other players have to compensate, in terms of defensive nous, and physicality.....that hasn't happened, so we are exposed physically and athletically.... TBF Kamara has come in, and Diego is a tragedy, but never the less, for what I am saying a set back.

That was the turning point, back to where we came from, for me.

Edited August 25, 2022 by TRO

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

 

Nick, It could be coaching, but it might not be in isolation....it could be other factors in conjunction with coaching.

blimey, we have only just signed a new coach, after losing a hignly rated one that presided over 12 defeats in 29 games.

I see the same games as you, but maybe my interpretation is different.....where i agree with you, its a shitshow right now, and defensive organisation is flown with the fairies.

You want to blame it entirely on coaching, I think its  broader than that, but still including it.

No, I keep saying it’s mostly/mainly coaching, whereas your argument for sometime has focused on anything that isn’t Gerrard’s coaching and deflecting to any fault but Gerrard, that’s all.  

You’ve always believed in Gerrard and backed him to the hilt and beyond, and I’ve mostly not been convinced apart from a short time after the first handful of games.  Maybe that’s why we disagree but this coaching is awful.

[villabromsgrove]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

The irony is Dave, he halted the slide, by making us a bit harder to play against.....then he signed Countinho and Digne....too very talented but light weight players, since then we have gone backwards in terms of "Hard to play against"

If they are to stay in the team other players have to compensate, in terms of defensive nous, and physicality.....that hasn't happened, so we are exposed physically and athletically.... TBF Kamara has come in, and Diego is a tragedy, but never the less, for what I am saying a set back.

That was the turning point, back to where we came from, for me.

I think you've hit the nail on the head Paul.

As long suffering fans we knew there were two outstanding areas of weakness that were stopping us making the next step up .... The lack of a skilful, mobile and physically imposing CM pairing, and the lack of a dominant CB pairing who have real aerial and positional prowess as well as considerable physical strength.

I believe that Gerrard thought he could manage these weaknesses by trying to replicate the neat and dangerous high possession style of Man C, L'pool etc, without going through the process of building a really strong and combative central spine.

The problem is that SG seems to have ignored the fact that the reason why top teams can do most of their defending in the opposition half, is because they employ some of the world's best footballers. It won't work for us so SG (or his successor) has to do the glaringly obvious and buy players who can dominate key central areas.

Two expensive key signings would point us in the right direction again. 

[Tomaszk]

Is it possible Gerrard walks around the training ground naked all day asking players to look him his eyes?

It is possible yes. We just don't know.

If Gerrard is more worried about training performances than on the pitch performances, he's an idiot and won't ever succeed as a manager.

[KentVillan]

2 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

Potter appears to be doing it at Brighton

Yes good shout.

I mean it should be the norm for any manager getting steady investment year on year to keep building a squad. But typically as clubs invest to climb up the table they also look for better coaches.

A lot of our perception of how Gerrard is doing hinges on just how disastrous losing Grealish was. IMO it was a temporary problem, and by now the reinvestment in the squad should have made us significantly stronger than we were when we finished 11th under Smith.

Also, the case would be stronger if Grealish was pulling up trees at City. As it stands, it actually looks like Smith did very well to get the most out of Grealish (which Bruce, Guardiola and Southgate have all failed to do) and maybe our other players contributed more than we realised.

Yes we lack an obvious star player these days, but we don’t have any *massive* weaknesses in any individual position. We’d all like a better CM, a fit Carlos, maybe another option up front or out wide, but our players in these positions aren’t awful. We should be able to give most teams a very tough game, so it’s perplexing why Gerrard is still struggling to do this.

Edited August 24, 2022 by KentVillan

[Jas10]

3 hours ago, Lupinthe5th said:

On a positive note at least things can only get better right 

Erm… are you looking forward to a few thrashings in the next few games? Fixtures aren’t kind… it could get a lot worse… which is why I’d sooner make a change rather than inflict more damage on the team/players…

We need a major turnaround… some semblance of an effective set up and the right team selection. We can’t continue to have so much distance between players or vacate the midfield, badly need to tighten up… get those fullbacks to focus more on defending and let those midfielders and attackers create and build up play rather than covering for their forward forays… the problem is, SG hasn’t shown he can change his ways of learn from his mistakes… I’m still waiting…

We have to tighten up, sort ourselves out, keep the ball on the deck (keep a hold of it better and improve the build up) and become a lot more solid and harder to beat.

Otherwise, we are going to get destroyed and embarrassed… it won’t be pretty.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Interesting I guess, but only if you do anything with it...

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

32 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Is it possible Gerrard walks around the training ground naked all day asking players to look him his eyes?

It is possible yes. We just don't know.

If Gerrard is more worried about training performances than on the pitch performances, he's an idiot and won't ever succeed as a manager.

To be fair, the bits in bold possibly cancel each other out.