Steven Gerrard

[lexicon]

25 minutes ago, TRO said:

That to me is a real plus point.

I guess its down to personalities, and what floats your boat......I like to listen to his assured delivery and his measured answers.....I think he can be witty, its a scouse dry wit.

SG wants to win, and it comes across to me that he is not happy with the results so far.......I don't want him to be.

I don't see many managers in the Prem, coming across laughing and joking,all the time. Klopp is one of the few, as he can.....but even then, his mood can change with prickly questions....The best manager we ever had was Dour in style.

I never heard the last manager say anything insightful or witty......In fact many of our previous managers came across woolly, indecisive and repetitive.

I think with SG, You either like him or you don't.......but some of the reasoning behind why folk don't like him, is iffy, IMO.

I don't think the naysayers with Gerrard will change, even when we improve.....I think he simply doesn't appeal, to some personalities.

In terms of results, SG's are no better then Deans.....but the time in the seat is a huge difference, if SG gets his own players in and his win ratio is below 40% like both of them was/is........Then you can expect change, again.....but that will take time to establish.

Steven Gerrard has been brought in to move the club forward, if he just replicates the win percentages Dean presided over, he will end up with the same fate.....thats for sure.

For me there's a fine line between being sure of yourself and being arrogant - and for me, if you're cocky, then you absolutely have to back it up. Gerrard is not the cockiest guy in the world, granted, but he hasn't achieved anything at this level managerially to warrant any sort of arrogance either. He's very much in a position where he needs to be humble - to learn and develop as a manager - because he's nowhere near the finished article.

I agree with you re: certain personalities being received differently by different people. Misplaced confidence annoys me greatly and was a key factor in how much I hated Sherwood. Not only was he incredibly arrogant, he was also absolutely useless and thick as pig shit. I cannot stand people like that in real life and I find arrogance a major red flag in general, because it's usually masking something. 

[nick76]

I watch the pressers to see about injuries and such forth.  I couldn’t care less if the manager was charismatic or dour, eloquent or a bit rough in his delivery to be honest.  If he doesn’t deliver on the pitch it doesn’t matter, if he delivers on the pitch his quirks good or bad in pressers and interviews will be loved.

Edited May 4, 2022 by nick76

[TRO]

7 hours ago, lexicon said:

For me there's a fine line between being sure of yourself and being arrogant - and for me, if you're cocky, then you absolutely have to back it up. Gerrard is not the cockiest guy in the world, granted, but he hasn't achieved anything at this level managerially to warrant any sort of arrogance either. He's very much in a position where he needs to be humble - to learn and develop as a manager - because he's nowhere near the finished article.

I agree with you re: certain personalities being received differently by different people. Misplaced confidence annoys me greatly and was a key factor in how much I hated Sherwood. Not only was he incredibly arrogant, he was also absolutely useless and thick as pig shit. I cannot stand people like that in real life and I find arrogance a major red flag in general, because it's usually masking something. 

I agree but there is a nuance between arrogance and self confidence.

I think SG does display a certain humility, in his make-up.....He was quick to point out the relevance of Michael Beale amd the experience of Gary McAlister....He IS quick to promote others.

He often makes reference to his learning path and that he is NOT the finished article.....That does not suggest Arrogance, to me...self confidence, yes.

We have to remember here, he was one of the worlds best midfielders at one point....and had to deal with the adulation that, that brought.....He is bound to be intrinsically confident in himself, even if right now the results do not reflect that.

He has presided over 23 games, its hardly a stick to beat him with, for still showing a confidence for what he wants to do.

Steve and Dean are different characters, who will naturally appeal, to different personalities within the fanbase, I don't ever see that changing.....but then we have never had a manager with 100% backing and probably never will.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

6 hours ago, nick76 said:

I watch the pressers to see about injuries and such forth.  I couldn’t care less if the manager was charismatic or dour, eloquent or a bit rough in his delivery to be honest.  If he doesn’t deliver on the pitch it doesn’t matter, if he delivers on the pitch his quirks good or bad in pressers and interviews will be loved.

In the cold light of day.....that just about sums it up.

[TRO]

On 03/05/2022 at 22:11, Dale said:

Bonkers. I don't have an agenda. I have said repeatedly, I want to see Gerrard do well here. I don't rate what I've seen and don't know how to take his previous achievements (counterbalance with fellow SPL winners McLeish, Lennon etc), which is okay. I want to be proven wrong. 

First, I wasn't the one mentioning that Purslow bringing in Gerrard to attract players, that came from your post. As I've said previously, I think it's largely driven by Purslow’s assessment of his character and some signs that he had potential as a manager (hoping to get in the next big thing)... 

However, I don't rate the character of bloke's that assault DJs for not doing what they tell them because he's a drunk footballer. I question the character of a bloke that as Liverpool captain around the clubs response to the Suarez incident. I think it is very clear that the appointment would've been highly unlikely if anyone other than Purslow was CEO. You're correct any manager could be gone at any time, this is the nature of the role, what worries me is having a bunch of people who are loyal to the man not the club (which in the case of Coutinho would likely be the case, as would be the case of any older high profile name who was a team mate of the manager). 

If you think I'm unbalanced and unhinged in one direction, we clearly balance each other out. Purslow and Lange should constantly be catastrophising and working through what happens *if* this happens are there risks to the club related to signing this player, where they are obviously coming due to a relationship with the coach, there's a risk of them becoming quickly disengaged when that coach departs. This is the nature of the function of the executive of any business, and ones in this industry are far more volatile than most! 

So in this instance, please don't take this as an attack on Gerrard or anyone, just a question of planning and judgement of what happens next, using the celebrity factor of a coach isn't always a great move (this would stand even if we had my dream appointment). High profile names signed by Ancelotti at Everton have somewhat gone missing since his departure 

I'm done here. I don't think anything I've said is wild conjecture. 

• True....but it was YOU who alluded to it being the only piece of criteria,he was recruited on,  in the way you worded your counter....a pretty drawn out 5hrs of intense interviewing to just discuss that.
• Thats a pretty desperate attempt to use one mar on his character, to further your narrative.
• I would think risk management is a part of the managerial structure of the club
• I don't think you can ignore his high profile.....if your saying its not enough to mask over incompetence, you would be right.....but who is suggesting that?
• Nobody mentioned "Wild Conjecture".....just conjecture.

As an anaology.......If I was buying a used car, and I knew the working history, provided it met all my criteria, that would be a huge help, in making my decision......Christian Purslow, is our CEO and his decision making can be made easier in recruiting managers, if he knows a bit about them, as opposed to going in blind, In this case he did know a bit about SG....That to me , makes perfect Sense....knowing what you are hiring or buying is fundamental to sound decisions......It also works for SG that he knows the CEO when he comes to managing up.....and that too is important, in connecting with a pathway, to getting what you want.

To call it an old pals act as some have intimated....is cheap imo.....I think its a slight on our owners too, who are much smarter than, to not see through that and I would presume, they would have to rubber stamp it,too.

I don't know, if you are opposed to him, not convinced by him, just being devils advocate, or what your agenda is, ......but you seem to be looking under every stone to find something adverse or negative( not just you by the way).....when he has been here 23 games, and won 1 game less than Eddie Howe, who has been revered for what he has done, in stark contrast.

I don't expect folk to be doing gambols, over SG's work so far......but to jump to negative conclusions so early, smacks of "just as I expected"...."self justification".

I wanted him, from day 1.....and being honest, I was hoping for him to instil a bit more belief in some,some he has by the way,  but maybe, I was being too ambitious.....but I am certainly going to give him time to build his own team, in the shape of HIS philosophy.....and then judge him.

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by TRO

[ciggiesnbeer]

Comes down to that old question of whats the value split of players vs coaches in a football team?

Over the years I have become more old school. I think Players count for 90% or more.  Coaches can lift by 10% but not much more.

However coaches CAN have a massive negative effect. So I guess for me a decent coach is someone who doesnt ruin the players. A good coach gets an extra 10%.

EG: Pep or Klopp couldn't challenge for the title with our squad but they might have us in 8th place rather than 13th.

Edited May 4, 2022 by ciggiesnbeer

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Comes down to that old question of whats the value split of players vs coaches in a football team?

Over the years I have become more old school. I think Players count for 90% or more.  Coaches can lift by 10% but not much more.

However coaches CAN have a massive negative effect. So I guess for me a decent coach is someone who doesnt ruin the players. A good coach gets an extra 10%.

EG: Pep or Klopp couldn't challenge for the title with our squad but they might have us in 8th place rather than 13th.

I think you are right.

All the top coaches surround themselves with top players, and when they move it's usually to clubs with top players.....SG has to be given time to build his own team...He has it all to do.

As an example....Ancelloti has won league titles in 5 different countries, but all at clubs with top players......At Everton, he was unable with all his talent to do anything remotely similar,  in 67 games only acheiving 46% wins.....

with 11 clubs 1,221 games he achieved a win ratio average of 58%, incredible.

doesn't it say a lot, about having the players.

Without the quality of players, its almost impossible.

Edited May 4, 2022 by TRO

[ciggiesnbeer]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you are right.

All the top coaches surround themselves with top players, and when they move its usually to clubs with top players.

......I think that just about says it all.

As an example....Ancelloti has won league titles in 5 different countries, but all at clubs with top players......At Everton, he was unable with all his talent to do anything remotely similar.....doesn't it say a lot.

Great example! A year after leaving  he won the league and is challenging for the Champions League with good players, while the crap players at Everton are fighting relegation.

Edited May 4, 2022 by ciggiesnbeer

[VillaParkAvenue]

5 hours ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Comes down to that old question of whats the value split of players vs coaches in a football team?

Over the years I have become more old school. I think Players count for 90% or more.  Coaches can lift by 10% but not much more.

However coaches CAN have a massive negative effect. So I guess for me a decent coach is someone who doesnt ruin the players. A good coach gets an extra 10%.

EG: Pep or Klopp couldn't challenge for the title with our squad but they might have us in 8th place rather than 13th.

A new manager can implement a whole new way of playing and have huge influence on a team.

Like Vieira taking over Palace after Hodgson, it’s radically different. Or Potter taking over Brighton after Hughton, leading to no more long goal kicks, high pressing, less direct play and much possession which demands different things from the players. Or Conte at Spurs, implementing pre-rehearsed patterns which are used in every game. Teams often become almost unrecognizable.

I’d say the manager’s importance is more often underrated, the way a team plays isn’t improvised unless you’re at a low level.

Ancelotti is unusual as a top manager as he doesn’t have a clear style. He lets the teams he takes over more or less continue as they were set up before, making smaller tweaks.

[lexicon]

16 hours ago, TRO said:

I agree but there is a nuance between arrogance and self confidence.

I think SG does display a certain humility, in his make-up.....He was quick to point out the relevance of Michael Beale amd the experience of Gary McAlister....He IS quick to promote others.

He often makes reference to his learning path and that he is NOT the finished article.....That does not suggest Arrogance, to me...self confidence, yes.

We have to remember here, he was one of the worlds best midfielders at one point....and had to deal with the adulation that, that brought.....He is bound to be intrinsically confident in himself, even if right now the results do not reflect that.

He has presided over 23 games, its hardly a stick to beat him with, for still showing a confidence for what he wants to do.

Steve and Dean are different characters, who will naturally appeal, to different personalities within the fanbase, I don't ever see that changing.....but then we have never had a manager with 100% backing and probably never will.

I agree - I said as much in the first line of my post. 

That said, self-confidence can work for and against people too - everything has to come from a position of knowledge or it's on shaky ground. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

I agree - I said as much in the first line of my post. 

That said, self-confidence can work for and against people too - everything has to come from a position of knowledge or it's on shaky ground. 

Soz.

[Rustibrooks]

Maybe being patient with Gerrard is the way forward for those that are doubting, the team he built is now in the Europa final. 

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, Rustibrooks said:

Maybe being patient with Gerrard is the way forward for those that are doubting, the team he built is now in the Europa final. 

 

[Tomaszk]

46 minutes ago, Rustibrooks said:

Maybe being patient with Gerrard is the way forward for those that are doubting, the team he built is now in the Europa final. 

Been working this week with a rangers fan. Enjoyable watching the two games in pub with him.

He loves Gerrard. Was very surprised to hear I didn't. I think once he got off to a good start, it was sort of accepted outside of Villa that he was 'good' and that was that.

Says Gerrard worth sticking with and this current rangers team were hardened under him.

He does however think they're better under Gio as he is much more flexible and uses different formations for different games.

I asked about the league and why they've failed this year and he just said Celtic now and Celtic last year are night and day. The relative unknown manager and Japanese signings have all been really impressive.

[briny_ear]

Personally, I'm wondering if there is a nuance between arrogance and self confidence? 

Nobody seems to have raised this.

[Anything11]

6 hours ago, nick76 said:

 

Nice shitpost

[picicata]

7 hours ago, Rustibrooks said:

Maybe being patient with Gerrard is the way forward for those that are doubting, the team he built is now in the Europa final. 

So are you saying in a year we should sack him and get in GvB to get the most out of the squad?

[duke313]

I wonder does SG regret leaving Rangers for us, seeing as the team he's built is now in a Euro final.

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, duke313 said:

I wonder does SG regret leaving Rangers for us, seeing as the team he's built is now in a Euro final.

You’re assuming he would’ve got them to the final and it’s not because of in part GvB’s management ability!

[duke313]

Just now, nick76 said:

You’re assuming he would’ve got them to the final and it’s not because of in part GvB’s management ability!

Probably a bit of both, SG did build the squad though.  Maybe we should have hired GvB