Steven Gerrard

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

18 minutes ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

We have a squad full of talented players, what we need now is to add quality not quantity each year. If he can't get this team playing to something like their potential then he isn't the man for the job long term.

The problem is that we have a squad full of talented ATTACKING minded and relatively lightweight players.

How some people still can't see that it's our defence and defensive solidity in all areas that is lacking is bizarre to me.

You could have a team of under 21s who are technically and skillfully superior to a Burnley team for example, but they would never win. They would simply be Outmuscled and outfought.

This often happens to our senior team. We aren't Man City or Liverpool skill and technical wise so the idea that we don't need players with more physical stature and ball winning ability should surely be blown wide open.

The only way you can get away with having a team of little players at this level is if they are all Coutinho in his prime.form.

I genuinely think he should even be trying Chambers as a makeshift DM till summer.

Arsenal suffered with the same disease for a few seasons. Until they finally started making the transition to finding the balance between getting physically strong ball winners in, who can also play football well.

[TRO]

31 minutes ago, icouldtelltheworld said:

I think he deserves time and that there have been some positive signs at points during his tenure, but I really can't shake the feeling that giving him a load of money to oversee a massive squad overhaul and completely change the way we play could well be a decision we regret for a long time to come.

We have a squad full of talented players, what we need now is to add quality not quantity each year. If he can't get this team playing to something like their potential then he isn't the man for the job long term.

I don't think any manager could fix this team, without surgery.....its hard to fix an imbalance without it.

I think we all thought he could, me included.....but he can't.

I am not suggesting SG is bomb proof, but I do think he trying as many things as he can, to get the team to play....He has to get players in who can respond to his demands, many of ours clearly can't.

I think Frank has a similar Job at Everton....and Arteta is just coming through his transition at Arsenal, after his choppy waters.

Edited April 3, 2022 by TRO

[Zatman]

Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

The problem is that we have a squad full of talented ATTACKING minded and relatively lightweight players.

How some people still can't see that it's our defence and defensive solidity in all areas that is lacking is bizarre to me.

You could have a team of under 21s who are technically and skillfully superior to a Burnley team for example, but they would never win. They would simply be Outmuscled and outfought.

This often happens to our senior team. We aren't Man City or Liverpool skill and technical wise so the idea that we don't need players with more physical stature and ball winning ability should surely be blown wide open.

The only way you can get away with having a team of little players at this level is if they are all Coutinho in his prime.form.

I genuinely think he should even be trying Chambers as a makeshift DM till summer.

Arsenal suffered with the same disease for a few seasons. Until they finally started making the transition to finding the balance between getting physically strong ball winners in, who can also play football well.

Our defence was one of the best in the league last season to go to a mess is bizarre.

Why do we just have one left back and one right back? 

Why does McGinn play every minute of every game? 

This shitshow is on the manager. 50% loss record for a "proven winner" and then makes the same excuses after every game 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

12 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Our defence was one of the best in the league last season to go to a mess is bizarre.

Why do we just have one left back and one right back? 

Why does McGinn play every minute of every game? 

This shitshow is on the manager. 50% loss record for a "proven winner" and then makes the same excuses after every game 

- Our defence was one of the best in the League last season, so I assume you don't think we need any defenders or defensive minded players then? The same defence declined this season, under the previous manager also, hence why he is no longer our manager 

- With regards to full back situation, I agree.

- McGinn also played every minute under the previous manager | I don't agree with either of them doing it.

- We have a 50 percent loss record, yet are still in a better position in the table than when the previous manager left ( who was here for 3 years ). The new one has been here for half a season. People keep sarcastically bringing up this " proven winner " thing as if he is on the pitch himself losing, or has a FIFA joystick for the team.

In reality, the goals were given from a slip, and an own goal.

Again the opinons tend to vary based on how much we like or dislike Managers and players.

From the opinions now, I'm gathering that we don't even need a transfer window, just a new manager?

Also, note that there was a forced sub from the defense within the first 10 mins? Plus last minute omission of Ings due to his baby being born, which probably affected the game as well.

Edited April 3, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[PaulC]

I still have faith he will come good but the Jury is still out on him. He got the team selection horribly wromg. Basically picking three no. 8s in midfield plus two luxury players in Bailey and Coutinho we were always going to be open against one of the best counter attacking teams in the league. 

[Zatman]

Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

- Our defence was one of the best in the League last season, so I assume you don't think we need any defenders or defensive minded players then? The same defence declined this season, under the previous manager also, hence why he is no longer our manager 

- With regards to full back situation, I agree.

- McGinn also played every minute under the previous manager | I don't agree with either of them doing it.

- We have a 50 percent loss record, yet are still in a better position in the table than when the previous manager left ( who was here for 3 years ). The new one has been here for half a season.

In reality, the goals were given from a slip, and an own goal.

Again the opinons tend to vary based on how much we like or dislike Managers and players.

From the opinions now, I'm gathering that we don't even need a transfer window, just a new manager?

We dont need a rebuild under this clown. I and a few people have no faith in this guy. What has he actually done to deserve next season? He wont be sacked but I think our board wont be happy. I can see at least 5 more losses before the end of the season 

A competent manager who Lange could have found and not Purslow hiring his mate would have been an improvement 

[VillaParkAvenue]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

Both him and Frank are showing signs of being the very opposite of progressive in their thinking and man management... Diggin in g people out, talking up their injuries as a positive part of the game, not really understanding the players that play for them. It ends one way, with a lost dressing room and a career as a TV pundit. 

I’m afraid this may be true, they both seem to struggle with handling adversity.

I hate Newcastle as much as anyone, and Eddie Howe deserves questions about being paid by murderers, but they got the appointment right in a football sense. Instead of chasing impossible star players, Howe seem intent on building a functioning team. Quite impressed with his work so far.

[tinker]

55 minutes ago, TRO said:

I feel the opposite at times....I see things that still look so familiar, to Dean Smiths team.

Sure I see some differences in what the full backs are expected to do and the narrower forward line.....but the traits of losing the ball so easily, misplaced passes, being available to be closed down, so easily, semi pressing in lieu of a full press, half hearted contact in duels, unforced errors....I still see all that.....and I thought that would change, but it hasn't.

SG clearly can't get from this squad what he wants, hence the comment about "believing".....I don't think certain things, is in them intrinsically, it wasn't considered in past recruitment, hence we have accumulated much of the same type of characters.....they are ok when given time and space to play, shut them down and they flounder and don't seem to know how to deal with it.....Wolves, seem to be privy to our weaknesses.

 

When they was on song Smith's team played better football, our game against Man U early in the season was arguably our best performance this season.

We have needed a DM for many seasons and not got one and when we did have one we never played him enough to see if he could cut it.

Recruitment is poor across the whole system, not in the individual players. We have so many players all trying to do the same thing. Coutinho and Buendia, Bert and Bailey. Ings and Watkins . Doug and McGinn. 

When the system fails we have no plan B and to cap it all Gerrard appears to losing faith in most of the players. I believe they will return the complement and want out and throw Gerrard and us into the shit. 

If this season fails and we continue to play this badly then surely we can't back Gerrard and risk the whole  project. It's was a gamble and its odds look longer now than they did when he came in.

We need to improve before the end of the season before we blindly back him. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

The way some people keep bringing up the charity game for example.... sums it all up.

There is no winning for this bloke here.

If you realistically think he never worked on Wolves, because he played a charity game, I don't even know what to say.

The prick was at his daughters birthday party a few weeks before as well, and we lost that week.

As I've said a couple of times, at this point, I'd be ok with us getting another more " likeable " manager so that some balance and perspective could return to the fanbase.

There WILL never be any nuance in this thread. Sod it just rehire Dean ffs.

Edited April 3, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Laughable Chimp]

26 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Our defence was one of the best in the league last season to go to a mess is bizarre.

Why do we just have one left back and one right back? 

Why does McGinn play every minute of every game? 

This shitshow is on the manager. 50% loss record for a "proven winner" and then makes the same excuses after every game 

I've said it before, but it wasn't. It was Martinez being world class. Controlling for that leaves our defence solidly midtable last season(as opposed to being joint 7th best? Which isn't that amazing to begin with).

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Laughable Chimp

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

The way some people keep bringing up the charity game for example.... sums it all up.

There is no winning for this bloke here.

If you realistically think he never worked on Wolves, because he played a charity game, I don't even know what to say.

The prick was at his daughters birthday party a few weeks before as well, and we lost that week.

As I've said a couple of times, at this point, I'd be ok with us getting another more " likeable " manager so that some balance and perspective could return to the fanbase.

There WILL never be any nuance in this thread. Sod it just rehire Dean ffs.

Nobody has ever said rehire Dean Smith. Was probably the time for him to go but we were promised a huge upgrade and we have this guy

If he didnt have a great playing career at Liverpool would he have got hired? 

[sne]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

 

There WILL never be any nuance in this thread. Sod it just rehire Dean ffs.

Ah yes, so we can get some balance back in the manager thread  

He had even more posters who were dead set against him from day 1.

Some of which are now desperately trying to make out that Gerrard has no chance to succeed because the job is impossible with the current squad or whatever.

You are not one of them, just to be clear.

[DCJonah]

5 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I've said it before, but it wasn't. It was Martinez being world class. Controlling for that leaves our defence solidly midtable last season(as opposed to being joint 7th best? Which isn't that amazing to begin with).

 

 

Martinez was class but this gets over exaggerated. The defence was good last season. 

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

If he didnt have a great playing career at Liverpool would he have got hired?

I don’t think anybody could say yes to this.  

I’m willing to give Gerrard a chance and will back him, largely because I have no choice.  He’s our manager and at games I will fully support him but this board is my chance to vent my frustration.  

It’s clear that if it wasn’t for his playing career he wouldn’t even have been considered for this job let alone hired.  Now we just have to hope it was a genius/lucky appointment and that his playing personality of winning will over time transfer to this team or the team he builds.

[VillaFaninLondon]

I really don't see what we have gained by bringing in Gerrard on his huge salary. When we sacked Smith we should have actually gone all out for a top manager like Ten Hag but instead Purslow took on a rookie just because he was a big-name player and decided to pay him an extortionate salary. It was pretty brainless if we're being honest like so many managerial appointments we have made over the years.

 

Gerrard doesn't show any tactical flexibility, he stubbornly sticks to his formation of playing two no 10s despite it being ineffective after every gameweek. He tries to outplay teams above us in the league, when it would be more effective to play counter attack and use the pace of Bailey and Watkins. We did that under Smith and won 8 games against the top 10 last season. This season we have won 2 against the top 10 and Gerrard was only in charge for one of them. 

 

The one thing bringing in Gerrard did was allow us to bring in players like Coutinho and Digne, but fat lot of good that's done for us. Since they've signed we've lost more than we've won including to mediocre teams like Watford and Newcastle and teams like Wolves and West Ham who we should be looking to at least draw with if Gerrard wants to show he can take us where we want to go. 

 

We can give Gerrard more money to fix our issues this summer but I don't think he's good enough to take us into Europe. I may be wrong, but even if he does manage it it will be at huge expense to the club if we're going to go out and spend 60m on players like Phillips. We've already invested an awful lot of the owners' money into the squad with nothing to show for it. 

 

People are still saying we have no right to be competing with teams like Wolves, well this is net spend over the last 10 years: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12535322/transfers-man-utd-top-man-city-psg-barcelona-and-arsenal-for-net-spend-over-decade

 

This includes several years of us spending no money whatsoever under Lerner and then a few years in the Champ where apart from the first summer we weren't allowed to spend any money. We've still massively outspend Wolves in that period, as well as a higher net spend than Tottenham, Leicester, West Ham and even Chelsea and Liverpool. Yet all of those teams have a lot more to show for it, we haven't even finished in the top 10 in the last 10 years whereas Leicester, Liverpool and Chelsea have all won the league and Spurs, Wolves and West Ham have played in Europe. Even bloody Palace and the Barcodes have finished in the top 10 in the last 10 years. 

 

I'm pretty sure Gerrard will be heavily backed in the summer but after every gameweek he just doesn't show enough for me. I think he's a cheque book manager who will spend a lot of money here and we may or may not finish in Europe. I am not sure it is a stable route to go down at all and we could heaven forbid end up like Everton who are in one almighty mess and there will be huge ramifications for them if they go down just like there were for us when we finished rock bottom in 2016.

Edited April 3, 2022 by VillaFaninLondon

[hippo]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

They could well do.....Coutinho has done better with us than Barcelona.

Your missing the point again Hippo.....its BALANCE.......it depends what a team needs.

I could pick out 6 players all £ 50mill rated to play the front 3-3, but if the balance is wrong, they will be eaten alive.......A team full of Mo Salah's wouldn't win a game.....Liverpool have a fine balance to their team in addition to quality players.

If one of our players joins a club with a strong dep't i.e midfield, he could well, do well. for example.....If you put Luiz or McGinn in with Rice and Soucek, as a 3, they could well thrive.

Its getting that balance, where players thrive off each others varying attributes, it's what we have missing and it has drained the confidence out of the team, by not having it.

right now.....I would play chambers as CDM and try it, for a stop gap.

 

I think your over egging balance to be honest.

You seem to be saying the team can't function at all without this " balance"

You seem to want to have everything " just so " before we can say - actually the tactics and coaching isn't great.

Optimism in the extreme if you think Stevie G can throw everything up in the air over to the summer - and rustle up this balanced team.

To me the signs are that he can't  (all imo of course)

 

 

[hippo]

6 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I really don't see what we have gained by bringing in Gerrard on his huge salary. When we sacked Smith we should have actually gone all out for a top manager like Ten Hag but instead Purslow took on a rookie just because he was a big-name player and decided to pay him an extortionate salary. It was pretty brainless if we're being honest like so many managerial appointments we have made over the years.

 

Gerrard doesn't show any tactical flexibility, he stubbornly sticks to his formation of playing two no 10s despite it being ineffective after every gameweek. He tries to outplay teams above us in the league, when it would be more effective to play counter attack and use the pace of Bailey and Watkins. We did that under Smith and won 8 games against the top 10 last season. This season we have won 2 against the top 10 and Gerrard was only in charge for one of them. 

 

The one thing bringing in Gerrard did was allow us to bring in players like Coutinho and Digne, but fat lot of good that's done for us. Since they've signed we've lost more than we've won including to mediocre teams like Watford and Newcastle and teams like Wolves and West Ham who we should be looking to at least draw with if Gerrard wants to show he can take us where we want to go. 

 

We can give Gerrard more money to fix our issues this summer but I don't think he's good enough to take us into Europe. I may be wrong, but even if he does manage it it will be at huge expense to the club if we're going to go out and spend 60m on players like Phillips. We've already invested an awful lot of the owners' money into the squad with nothing to show for it. 

 

People are still saying we have no right to be competing with teams like Wolves, well this is net spend over the last 10 years: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12535322/transfers-man-utd-top-man-city-psg-barcelona-and-arsenal-for-net-spend-over-decade

 

This includes several years of us spending no money whatsoever under Lerner and then a few years in the Champ where apart from the first summer we weren't allowed to spend any money. We've still massively outspend Wolves in that period, as well as a higher net spend than Tottenham, Leicester, West Ham and even Chelsea and Liverpool. Yet all of those teams have a lot more to show for it, we haven't even finished in the top 10 in the last 10 years whereas Leicester, Liverpool and Chelsea have all won the league and Spurs, Wolves and West Ham have played in Europe. Even bloody Palace and the Barcodes have finished in the top 10 in the last 10 years. 

 

I'm pretty sure Gerrard will be heavily backed in the summer but after every gameweek he just doesn't show enough for me. I think he's a cheque book manager who will spend a lot of money here and we may or may not finish in Europe. I am not sure it is a stable route to go down at all and we could heaven forbid end up like Everton who are in one almighty mess and there will be huge ramifications for them if they go down just like there were for us when we finished rock bottom in 2016.

Bang on - this 100%. 

We going down a dead end with Stevie G - with no easy route back.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

24 minutes ago, sne said:

Ah yes, so we can get some balance back in the manager thread  

He had even more posters who were dead set against him from day 1.

Some of which are now desperately trying to make out that Gerrard has no chance to succeed because the job is impossible with the current squad or whatever.

You are not one of them, just to be clear.

Haha you're correct to be fair.

I'm just trying to remember when we had another manager so disliked by a section of fans?

Remi Garde, Sherwood, McLeish?

Basically, it never seems to end well to be fair.

If the majority of fans aren't onboard, it rarely ever works out, and in this day and age, fans are even more " visible " due to social media and so on.

The discontent can spread , even through squad etc and it's good for no one.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[VillaFaninLondon]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

They could well do.....Coutinho has done better with us than Barcelona.

Your missing the point again Hippo.....its BALANCE.......it depends what a team needs.

I could pick out 6 players all £ 50mill rated to play the front 3-3, but if the balance is wrong, they will be eaten alive.......A team full of Mo Salah's wouldn't win a game.....Liverpool have a fine balance to their team in addition to quality players.

If one of our players joins a club with a strong dep't i.e midfield, he could well, do well. for example.....If you put Luiz or McGinn in with Rice and Soucek, as a 3, they could well thrive.

Its getting that balance, where players thrive off each others varying attributes, it's what we have missing and it has drained the confidence out of the team, by not having it.

right now.....I would play chambers as CDM and try it, for a stop gap.

 

I agree about the lack of balance and no ball winner in midfield but also think you're letting Gerrard off the hook too easily.

 

He plays the same way each week with the FBs expected to provide the width and leaving the CMs exposed and players like McGinn and Ramsey having to cover the FBs when it is clear they are not strong at this. He could change his formation and shape but chooses not to. We have very good wide players like Bailey who was being asked to play the no 10 role yesterday because Gerrard stubbornly wants to play the same formation he played in Scotland every game. 

 

Also, he decided to bring in Digne and Coutinho which were great signings on paper, but ignored bringing in a DM. January is obviously a tough time to buy but if we were so desperate for a player of this type he should have made it a priority in January, he didn't. In fact he said that he was very happy with what he had when the window slammed shut in January so this is all on him I'm afraid. 

Edited April 3, 2022 by VillaFaninLondon

[sne]

I do feel it's a bit of this with Gerrard.

His high profile as a player has him given a too high profile as manager that he's not yet earned. Really hope the club is not giving him too much say in how we move forward. He should absolutely have a say in who we bring in but he's just the manager, not the DoF.