Derby County

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

If Everton offer a compensation package he may not have much of a choice. The club is managed by the administrators and to get a payoff to get an expensive wage off the payroll is like a blowjob to an administrator

Of course he has a choice, he's not a slave, he cannot be forced to do a job he's not interested in doing.

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

Of course he has a choice, he's not a slave, he cannot be forced to do a job he's not interested in doing.

But if his boss tells him he doesn't want him at the club his position becomes untenable. Of course he can dig his heals in but that never works out

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

But if his boss tells him he doesn't want him at the club his position becomes untenable. Of course he can dig his heals in but that never works out

That's a completely different point though. There's no evidence I'm aware of that Derby don't want him to remain their manager.

(In any case, if his wage is being paid by a sponsor, then any alternative manager would cost the club more)

[Peter Griffin]

4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

That's a completely different point though. There's no evidence I'm aware of that Derby don't want him to remain their manager.

(In any case, if his wage is being paid by a sponsor, then any alternative manager would cost the club more)

Its not a different point. Did u read my comment? I said that the administrators manage the club and they would want a compensation package which has the benefit of getting a high wage of the payroll. If the administrators accept a package, if Everton want Rooney, they that is telling him they don't want him. The wage being paid by a sponsor will be paid to DCFC and not directly to Rooney. It s DCFC money

Edited January 15, 2022 by Peter Griffin
Fixed a typo

[HanoiVillan]

Just now, Peter Griffin said:

Its not a different point. Did u read my comment? I said that the administrators manage the club and they would want a compensation package which has the benefit of getting a high wage of the payroll. If the administrators accept a package, if Everton want Rooney, they that is telling him they don't want him. The wage being paid by a sponsor will be paid to DCFC and not directly to Rooney. It s DCFC money

What an administrator can do is make an employee redundant. What they cannot do is force an employee to take a specific alternative job with a specific alternative employer. Once again, he is not a slave.

[Peter Griffin]

6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

What an administrator can do is make an employee redundant. What they cannot do is force an employee to take a specific alternative job with a specific alternative employer. Once again, he is not a slave.

And back to my post. If they tell him they don't want him his position becomes untenable. Yes, Rooney can dig his heals in and say he doesn't want to leave DCFC to manage in the Premier League for his boyhood team but that will not work out well for him at DCFC if he has been told DCFC does not want him

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

And back to my post. If they tell him they don't want him his position becomes untenable. Yes, Rooney can dig his heals in and say he doesn't want to leave DCFC to manage in the Premier League for his boyhood team but that will not work out well for him at DCFC if he has been told DCFC does not want him

What you said was, and I quote, 'he may not have much of a choice'. He in fact literally does have a choice.

And as I subsequently said, there is as of yet no evidence that Derby don't want him to remain their manager, nor is it necessarily even the case that it would be financially beneficial to the club for him to leave, if his salary is being paid by a 3rd party, when his replacement's salary would need to be paid by the club.

[Peter Griffin]

8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

What you said was, and I quote, 'he may not have much of a choice'. He in fact literally does have a choice.

And as I subsequently said, there is as of yet no evidence that Derby don't want him to remain their manager, nor is it necessarily even the case that it would be financially beneficial to the club for him to leave, if his salary is being paid by a 3rd party, when his replacement's salary would need to be paid by the club.

Yes, that is what I said. That is exactly what happens when a position becomes untenable. 

[cyrusr]

13 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

And back to my post. If they tell him they don't want him his position becomes untenable. Yes, Rooney can dig his heals in and say he doesn't want to leave DCFC to manage in the Premier League for his boyhood team but that will not work out well for him at DCFC if he has been told DCFC does not want him

Yeah but what you are describing is effectively constructive dismissal (I.e saying to an employer they don’t want them to make them quit instead). This would mean if Rooney did leave they it would be because they forced him and therefore they would be liable for his full fixed term contract (whatever that is) and so costing the club money rather than earning them money. To put bluntly, an employer legally CANNOT do that and any employee in this circumstance should be going to the employment tribunal.

He cannot be forced to take the Everton job but I suspect the administrators will be more than happy if he wants to as it will be more income. I suspect it is semantics anyway, Rooney will more than likely be happier managing Everton than Derby, even with current owners so if Everton want him it’ll happen. That is if they are not lining up Nuno anyway.

[Peter Griffin]

10 minutes ago, cyrusr said:

Yeah but what you are describing is effectively constructive dismissal (I.e saying to an employer they don’t want them to make them quit instead). This would mean if Rooney did leave they it would be because they forced him and therefore they would be liable for his full fixed term contract (whatever that is) and so costing the club money rather than earning them money. To put bluntly, an employer legally CANNOT do that and any employee in this circumstance should be going to the employment tribunal.

He cannot be forced to take the Everton job but I suspect the administrators will be more than happy if he wants to as it will be more income. I suspect it is semantics anyway, Rooney will more than likely be happier managing Everton than Derby, even with current owners so if Everton want him it’ll happen. That is if they are not lining up Nuno anyway.

It is football,  constructive dismissal doesn't exist. If the club what Rooney gone it is a simple task. It happens all the time with players and managers. Have u ever seen or heard of a constructive dismissal case in football?

Edited January 15, 2022 by Peter Griffin

[VillaChris]

Rooney is manager of the year by a mile if he keeps them up.

He is way off ready to manage in the prem though.

Edited January 15, 2022 by VillaChris

[cyrusr]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

It is football,  constructive dismissal doesn't exist. If the club what Rooney gone it is a simple task. It happens all the time with players and managers. Have u ever seen or heard of a constructive dismissal case in football?

Yes it does, as it is still an employment contract.

As for an example, Martin O’Neill argued it with Villa when he left. That settled out of court but that was what the case was about.

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, VillaChris said:

Rooney is manager of the year by a mile if he keeps them up.

He is way off ready to manage in the prem though.

He is evens fav to be the next Everton manager, but I do agree, he is not ready for the job but Everton have tried just about  every other type of manager; Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, Allardyce and Rafa. A Rooney type appointment hasn't been tried yet. I wouldn't suggest it if he wasn't an Everton lad 

[Zatman]

3 hours ago, penguin said:

Points deductions and transfer embargoes, they seem absolutely desperate to relegate them. 

Rooney is doing a fantastic job, be incredible if  he some how keeps them up.

Of the golden generation he is definitely doing the best job considering the situation 

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Rooney is manager of the year by a mile if he keeps them up.

He is way off ready to manage in the prem though.

If he gets 5 points near survival its a near miracle 

[VillaChris]

5 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

He is evens fav to be the next Everton manager, but I do agree, he is not ready for the job but Everton have tried just about  every other type of manager; Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, Allardyce and Rafa. A Rooney type appointment hasn't been tried yet. I wouldn't suggest it if he wasn't an Everton lad 

Think Duncan Ferguson for 4-5 games is what they'll do.

Think if Rooney is smart he'll walk end of the season and join top half championship club. Stoke have lost form so that could be ideal one for him if they sack O'Neill.

[Peter Griffin]

4 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Think Duncan Ferguson for 4-5 games is what they'll do.

Think if Rooney is smart he'll walk end of the season and join top half championship club. Stoke have lost form so that could be ideal one for him if they sack O'Neill.

LOL

[sidcow]

I hope they survive. Such a shame for the fans to be punished for the misdemeanours of the owners. 

And if they keep Rooney they actually might.  You look at the BBC football table and they are a sea of green surrounded on all sides by red and black. 

No reason to believe that those around them are going to suddenly start winning and they start losing.  They're clearly much much better than the teams around them.

Regarding the administrators wanting to cash in on Rooney, their responsibility is to run the business as well as they can and try to turn it around. They very best way to do that is to keep winning and climb the table. I don't think it's black and white that they just take the compo. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by sidcow

[HanoiVillan]

52 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I hope they survive. Such a shame for the fans to be punished for the misdemeanours of the owners. 

And if they keep Rooney they actually might.  You look at the BBC football table and they are a sea of green surrounded on all sides by red and black. 

No reason to believe that those around them are going to suddenly start winning and they start losing.  They're clearly much much better than the teams around them.

Regarding the administrators wanting to cash in on Rooney, their responsibility is to run the business as well as they can and try to turn it around. They very best way to do that is to keep winning and climb the table. I don't think it's black and white that they just take the compo. 

I agree with your post and would love if they survived, it would be a story for the ages, but regarding the bold there definitely is a reason - they have a tiny squad, which they cannot supplement due to a transfer embargo, and they may well be completely exhausted and run out of steam at some point.

[VillaJ100]

5 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I agree with your post and would love if they survived, it would be a story for the ages, but regarding the bold there definitely is a reason - they have a tiny squad, which they cannot supplement due to a transfer embargo, and they may well be completely exhausted and run out of steam at some point.

I mean could Rooney even play for them at that point? He's only 36 surely he's got a handful of games left in him?