Marka Ragnos Posted July 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) I noted on Claret & Blue this week that @DanRolinson and Ashley Preece seem very keen on Gerrard's approach of having players "scrapping for shirts," ie, competing for spots on the squad. To the extent that some of this always happens everywhere, I'm not sure what the alternative would ever really be anyway? So it makes me wonder if it's more part of the mental game, a way of constructing a certain kind of image as a manager that, I guess, is supposed to keep players "on their toes" to remain on the pitch. But that sounds a little odd to me. I guess some players would like that and rise to the occasion, but it may be too simplistic in certain situations, too. I mean, surely certain matches might defy this framework's logic. I don't know. I guess I could imagine some locker-room problems if not implemented with just the right amount of positivity? Thoughts????? And by the way, I wouldn't even do this post if the "scrapping for shirts" paradigm wasn't discussed quite a bit. It's been in the news. It seems almost more of a message that Gerrard wants to telegraph to players without being too direct? Edited July 25, 2022 by Marka Ragnos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said: I noted on Claret & Blue this week that @DanRolinson and Ashley Preece seem very keen on Gerrard's approach of having players "scrapping for shirts," ie, competing for spots on the squad. To the extent that some of this always happens everywhere, I'm not sure what the alternative would ever really be anyway? So it makes me wonder if it's more part of the mental game, a way of constructing a certain kind of image as a manager that, I guess, is supposed to keep players "on their toes" to remain on the pitch. But that sounds a little odd to me. I guess some players would like that and rise to the occasion, but it may be too simplistic in certain situations, too. I mean, surely certain matches might defy this framework's logic. I don't know. I guess I could imagine some locker-room problems if not implemented with just the right amount of positivity? Thoughts????? And by the way, I wouldn't even do this post if the "scrapping for shirts" paradigm wasn't discussed quite a bit. It's been in the news. It seems almost more of a message that Gerrard wants to telegraph to players without being too direct? Gerrard said the same last season yet never made changes when players like Buendia/Chambers had played well enough to get a game plus McGinn playing weekly when doing nothing Really wouldnt take Gerrard opinions serious on this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, Zatman said: Gerrard said the same last season yet never made changes when players like Buendia/Chambers had played well enough to get a game plus McGinn playing weekly when doing nothing Really wouldnt take Gerrard opinions serious on this Maybe he is basing his selections on what he is seeing in training too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Maybe he is basing his selections on what he is seeing in training too? thats another strike then on him. Its not like he has been here 6 games and doesnt know the players but was nearly 6 months and consistently playing underperformers. He should know by then they would let him down on matchday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said: Some of the changes in attitudes in players, i.e. Bailey and Sanson are good indicators that the players are buying into it too. Seems to be a real togetherness to me. Was no problem with the attitude last season. Bailey wasnt fit and Sanson was never picked over McGinn underperformances If McGinn is dropped first game of the season then be a positive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-Reacho Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 7 minutes ago, PaulMcGrath_5 said: Some of the changes in attitudes in players, i.e. Bailey and Sanson are good indicators that the players are buying into it too. Seems to be a real togetherness to me. Has there ever been an issue with Sanson? I haven't noticed any change in attitude with him - and I mean that as I didn't think there was any issue with his attitude last season. Did Gerrard comment on his attitude changing like he did Bailey? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 5 minutes ago, El-Reacho said: Has there ever been an issue with Sanson? I haven't noticed any change in attitude with him - and I mean that as I didn't think there was any issue with his attitude last season. Did Gerrard comment on his attitude changing like he did Bailey? Not to say he had a bad attitude--more that he seems more determined. He looks stronger and fitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 (edited) My biggest concerns in no particular order: - Luiz is a part of our best midfield 3, and we look like we'll lose him for nothing at the end of next season - Ramsey, McGinn, and Sanson are all competing for the remaining spot in that midfield 3, and I'd argue we'd be better off playing none of them and going 4231. I know isn't going to happen, and so it's down to who Steve is going to pick. I think Sanson would be the best option, but looks like Gerrard feels he'd be the worst. - Gerrard seems to not rate Buendia ( or at least rates him below Coutinho, and below playing 2 strikers, and potentially even Bailey). Not of concern to me: - our goalkeeper is quality, our backup is capable. - our defence has quality and depth to it, and real competition for the starting central places. - our strikers, whilst out of form last season, still managed a combined 26 goal contributions, despite how poor we and they were at times. A significant portion of those came at the end of the season, and I think they'll both be better this year. I think both would score more as a lone striker if we went down that route, and would then have real competition between them as to who starts. So the questions to be answered : - How is Gerrard getting the best out of our forward 3/4 and what is he doing about the midfield 3/2. The answer is obvious for me, but I'm not convinced it is for Gerrard and he only has one pre season game left to figure it out. I could well be wrong, but i think 4231 is by miles our best option. Edited July 26, 2022 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 15 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said: I noted on Claret & Blue this week that @DanRolinson and Ashley Preece seem very keen on Gerrard's approach of having players "scrapping for shirts," ie, competing for spots on the squad. To the extent that some of this always happens everywhere, I'm not sure what the alternative would ever really be anyway? So it makes me wonder if it's more part of the mental game, a way of constructing a certain kind of image as a manager that, I guess, is supposed to keep players "on their toes" to remain on the pitch. But that sounds a little odd to me. I guess some players would like that and rise to the occasion, but it may be too simplistic in certain situations, too. I mean, surely certain matches might defy this framework's logic. I don't know. I guess I could imagine some locker-room problems if not implemented with just the right amount of positivity? Thoughts????? And by the way, I wouldn't even do this post if the "scrapping for shirts" paradigm wasn't discussed quite a bit. It's been in the news. It seems almost more of a message that Gerrard wants to telegraph to players without being too direct? There is a big difference in managers who want intense competitive training and will give players starting places by out training other teammates and managers who will only drop players based on their performances on the pitch during match days. In the latter, training isn't as intense as you'll rely on your core players the majority of the season and you don't want to tire them out in training. It does mean these players don't have to work as hard in training as long as they're read for match day. It does create a first team player / backup player mentality and might be an issue for squad unity and morale. With the focus on training and rewarding players based on that it means you can have an inclusive squad mentality. Players know if they work hard in training they'll get their chance. The issue comes with potential for injury on training goes up due to the intensity and competition. It also means giving game time to players who might not be as good in game as the players they start ahead of. Overall of you have a deep squad of generally high quality players the competition for places drives performance levels in both training and match day as you want players to keep their levels as high as they can for fear of losing their place. We're only getting to a deep squad now and are probably a player shy in midfield say Sanson replaced by Wijnaldum to make the competition there fierce. Potentially another CF too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 I'll be very much pleasantly surprised if the starting 11 against Bournemouth isn't the same as we saw against Manure in Australia. Obviously I don't want the changes have made been due to injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted July 26, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 26, 2022 19 hours ago, Zatman said: Gerrard said the same last season yet never made changes when players like Buendia/Chambers had played well enough to get a game plus McGinn playing weekly when doing nothing Really wouldnt take Gerrard opinions serious on this That's interesting. Maybe just part of his sport psychology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted July 26, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 26, 2022 4 hours ago, CVByrne said: In the latter, training isn't as intense as you'll rely on your core players the majority of the season and you don't want to tire them out in training. It does mean these players don't have to work as hard in training as long as they're read for match day. It does create a first team player / backup player mentality and might be an issue for squad unity and morale. With the focus on training and rewarding players based on that it means you can have an inclusive squad mentality. Players know if they work hard in training they'll get their chance. The issue comes with potential for injury on training goes up due to the intensity and competition. It also means giving game time to players who might not be as good in game as the players they start ahead of. ... Damn. That's insightful stuff. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Noticed Chambers and Carlos are apparently our best centre half pairing. This won’t last, I remember fans once saying it should be Konsa and Hause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Noticed Chambers and Carlos are apparently our best centre half pairing. This won’t last, I remember fans once saying it should be Konsa and Hause. everybody but Mings has always been a bit of an agenda. Mings was one of the better players in our shit season last term Martinez had a pretty average season for me worse than Mings for example but nobody is saying Olsen should start after his clean sheets in pre-season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Zatman said: everybody but Mings has always been a bit of an agenda. Mings was one of the better players in our shit season last term Martinez had a pretty average season for me worse than Mings for example but nobody is saying Olsen should start after his clean sheets in pre-season Yeh I thought Mings was ok too last season apart from struggling a bit early in the season. He did get dropped in the end when Hause managed to get away with assaulting a player although Konsa seemed to take the red card for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 16 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Noticed Chambers and Carlos are apparently our best centre half pairing. This won’t last, I remember fans once saying it should be Konsa and Hause. Our best centre halves are Konsa and Carlos. They'll be the pairing by the end of the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Tomaszk said: Our best centre halves are Konsa and Carlos. They'll be the pairing by the end of the season. For me it’s still Mings. Haven’t got an opinion on Carlos yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 50 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Noticed Chambers and Carlos are apparently our best centre half pairing. This won’t last, I remember fans once saying it should be Konsa and Hause. I love Mings, he's probably my favourite Villa player (reasons beyond purely football included, granted) and I think gun to my head I'd have him and Carlos as our best CB pairing, but I don't think you can begrudge anyone saying that Chambers hasn't at least made a strong case for himself to be honest. Think it's just largely based on the merit of his recent performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Just now, Indigo said: I love Mings, he's probably my favourite Villa player (reasons beyond purely football included, granted) and I think gun to my head I'd have him and Carlos as our best CB pairing, but I don't think you can begrudge anyone saying that Chambers hasn't at least made a strong case for himself to be honest. Think it's just largely based on the merit of his recent performances. Oh not at all, he has done well and I would never have an issue if he started. I just find it amusing when I see anybody say Chambers and Carlos is our strongest centre half pairing when they haven’t even played a competitive game together yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burchy Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Lots of talk about new and current CMs over in the transfer pages but I think one of the main issues with our midfield is the current system we use. Most of the time they’re not in the midfield but rather on the wings. When they’re there we get played through. When they’re in midfield it gets played out wide as our full backs are bombing on. I’d much rather sacrifice Digne and Cash advanced roles for a more compact and controlled midfield. Other teams still have attacking fullbacks without it screwing up their midfield, why can’t we?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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