mikeyp102 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 20 minutes ago, MaVilla said: tbh, he's a good mid table right back i think, he is prob worth 25m, maybe 30m if a team really wants him. I don’t see anyone paying that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 7 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: I don’t see anyone paying that maybe not i guess, i would be surprised if it were any less than 20m. either way, wouldnt be surprised if we found out one way or the other in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich192 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 (edited) With news that Bailey is about to sign a new contract, I wonder if this is a way in which we’ll be able to help reduce our FFP? Bailey’s amortised fee is about £6.25m per season, with about £9m remaining, so let’s say he gets a new 4.5 year contract, that amortised fee will reduce to £2m a season (albeit with a probably slightly higher wage). We can do similar with Buendia, who has about £17.5m of his fee remaining, so we could go from £7m per year to about £3.5m per year. Just a thought, and maybe perhaps why the club seem to be quite relaxed about the reports from Ornstein that we need to sell by June 30th to comply. Edited February 5 by Rich192 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Maybe I missed it but if Archer returns does he still count as a youth product through FFP or does Sheffield United buying him reset his position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Maybe I missed it but if Archer returns does he still count as a youth product through FFP or does Sheffield United buying him reset his position will be like any other player, becuase we paid a fee for him, so any future sale wont be pure FFP profit, like a developed youth player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 3 hours ago, Zatman said: Maybe I missed it but if Archer returns does he still count as a youth product through FFP or does Sheffield United buying him reset his position He'd probably count as club trained for our European squad though, enabling us to name 23 players next season, versus the 22 we're capped at at the moment. A reason why selling Ramsey to boost our FFP position is immensely short-sighted. Assuming he gets back to his best, he's our best left sided midfielder, and frees up an extra player to be named in our European squad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted February 7 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7 (edited) 5 hours ago, Zatman said: Maybe I missed it but if Archer returns does he still count as a youth product through FFP or does Sheffield United buying him reset his position In what sense? The only reason youth products have any special distinction from other players and can be sold for "pure FFP profit" is because they cost nothing and have no book value. If we buy Archer back then he will have a cost and amortisation for FFP like any other purchase. Conversely, if we sold McGinn now, he would be virtually "pure FFP profit" as his remaining book value is close to zero (started from a small fee, most of which has been amortised during the many years he has been here). Edited February 7 by fightoffyour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, fightoffyour said: In what sense? The only reason youth products have any special distinction from other players and can be sold for "pure FFP profit" is because they cost nothing and have no book value. If we buy Archer back then he will have a cost and amortisation for FFP like any other purchase. Conversely, if we sold McGinn now, he would be virtually "pure FFP profit" as his remaining book value is close to zero (started from a small fee, most of which has been amortised during the many years he has been here). i would guess McGinn would be pure profit in terms of income, as the only cost he is to us currently is his wages etc, as you say, his tiny fee has almost certainly gone off the books now, especially as he has signed at least one new contract since he joined? i would guess Konsa, Mings, Hause & Luiz would also be pure profit, or very close to it, as they have been here close to 5 years, i would assume their amortization is in its final year (or already complete), and from the summer they will effectively class as pure profit for any fees we could receive for any of them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 On 16/01/2024 at 10:14, MrBlack said: McGinn...for example. Signed for about 2m on a 4 year deal. His Net book value loses 500k per year. 2 years down (2020) the line he signs a new 5 year contract, so at that point his nbv is 1m and loses 200k per year. 3 years after that (2023), another 4 year contact, at which point bid nbv his 400k and now loses 100k per year. so his nbv at this point is about 300k. If we sell him for over 40m as would be likely, it's negligible. Luiz has a NBV of about 1.8m at the moment, so higher than mcginn, but he'd sell for much more so would largely be insignificant in terms of our FFP position. Ultimately, as I said, would rather not sell any first teamer at the current stage we are. They nearly all have their prime years ahead of them, so we want to keep them for at least some of those. @MaVilla @fightoffyour I did the maths on McGinn during the window, if sold him for 30m, he'd be 29.7m of FFP profit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 05/02/2024 at 11:04, Rich192 said: With news that Bailey is about to sign a new contract, I wonder if this is a way in which we’ll be able to help reduce our FFP? Bailey’s amortised fee is about £6.25m per season, with about £9m remaining, so let’s say he gets a new 4.5 year contract, that amortised fee will reduce to £2m a season (albeit with a probably slightly higher wage). We can do similar with Buendia, who has about £17.5m of his fee remaining, so we could go from £7m per year to about £3.5m per year. Just a thought, and maybe perhaps why the club seem to be quite relaxed about the reports from Ornstein that we need to sell by June 30th to comply. You also need to factor the wage increase. A few million a year more is still. A few million a year more. We cant afford to bloat the wage bill either. I wouldn't consider a new contract for Buendia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said: You also need to factor the wage increase. A few million a year more is still. A few million a year more. We cant afford to bloat the wage bill either. I wouldn't consider a new contract for Buendia If you're saying you wouldn't consider a new contract because you want to see how he recovers from injury that's understandable. His performances last season that helped us qualify for Europe earned a review of his contract though. Extending by 2/3years, reducing our annual FFP hit, and ensuring we can still get a decent fee if we wanted to sell him is borderline no brainer territory...except for the fact we need to check how he's recovered. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 05/02/2024 at 11:04, Rich192 said: With news that Bailey is about to sign a new contract, I wonder if this is a way in which we’ll be able to help reduce our FFP? Bailey’s amortised fee is about £6.25m per season, with about £9m remaining, so let’s say he gets a new 4.5 year contract, that amortised fee will reduce to £2m a season (albeit with a probably slightly higher wage). We can do similar with Buendia, who has about £17.5m of his fee remaining, so we could go from £7m per year to about £3.5m per year. Just a thought, and maybe perhaps why the club seem to be quite relaxed about the reports from Ornstein that we need to sell by June 30th to comply. Yes new contracts spread remaining amortisation over the life of the new contract. This reduces the yearly accounting cost. Watkins and Bailey contracts are a boost for our accounts. People are over analysing Ornstein comments, he was saying there was interest in Ramsey and if we wanted to make a sale before 30th June it can go into this years accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSvillain Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Saw this posted on Twitter, I’m not a negative Nancy but even this has me a little worried! https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/028a-1a2f899177e2-b3619612eaa4-1000/uefaeuropeanclubfinanceinvestmentlandscape_150224.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calcifer Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 12 minutes ago, MSvillain said: Saw this posted on Twitter, I’m not a negative Nancy but even this has me a little worried! https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/028a-1a2f899177e2-b3619612eaa4-1000/uefaeuropeanclubfinanceinvestmentlandscape_150224.pdf IF this is true then we will have little choice but to sell our top talent I'm the summer! FFP sucks for clubs like us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 22 minutes ago, MSvillain said: Saw this posted on Twitter, I’m not a negative Nancy but even this has me a little worried! https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/028a-1a2f899177e2-b3619612eaa4-1000/uefaeuropeanclubfinanceinvestmentlandscape_150224.pdf amazing that Spurs' salaries to revenue figure is in the mid 30%'s, where as ours is 70%+. Shows the difference in revenue, their stadium makes them an absolute packet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 23 minutes ago, MSvillain said: Saw this posted on Twitter, I’m not a negative Nancy but even this has me a little worried! https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/028a-1a2f899177e2-b3619612eaa4-1000/uefaeuropeanclubfinanceinvestmentlandscape_150224.pdf that sounds like a real loss as in players paid for in full rather than amortised and therefore probably irrelevant other than if you are NSWE's bank balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSvillain Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 2 minutes ago, paul514 said: that sounds like a real loss as in players paid for in full rather than amortised and therefore probably irrelevant other than if you are NSWE's bank balance. It does sound too extreme for one year as that would be our entire allowable 3 year loss pretty much 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 50 minutes ago, MSvillain said: Saw this posted on Twitter, I’m not a negative Nancy but even this has me a little worried! https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/028a-1a2f899177e2-b3619612eaa4-1000/uefaeuropeanclubfinanceinvestmentlandscape_150224.pdf It's literally impossible. So whatever the source is, it's complete bullshit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSvillain Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 5 minutes ago, CVByrne said: It's literally impossible. So whatever the source is, it's complete bullshit UEFA is the source per the link above. I imagine it’s worded terribly as it doesn’t read great, maybe mistranslated or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich192 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 We know we've not fallen foul of FFP for the forthcoming financial statements, so regardless of this €138m loss or whatever was stated, it's not a concern. It would explain why we may fall foul of FFP for the current season, however, unless we sell prior to June 30th. I would also say that FFP loss isn't the same as a Profit and Loss Account loss, either, so don't get too hung up on figures and statements that seem worrisome. I believe our financial statements for the year ending 2023 have to be submitted by the end of this month, so we'll all be able to have a good look at them over the next couple of weeks, and then have a look at what Kevin Maguire says about it, and pass it off as our own knowledge. I know I will. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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