thabucks Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 10 hours ago, GingerCollins29 said: Careful mate, can't criticise on here! Irrational cristcism will be challenged appropriately. Some posters opinions are just wacko and not based on any tangible facts or any form of reality so they should be treated as such and if they don’t like it come back with an articulated response and let’s debate it. Edited January 27 by thabucks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 12 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said: Careful mate, can't criticise on here! I wasn't criticising as it happens. I love Watkins, wouldn't swap him for anybody. I was making a general point, we had one of our best 12 months in a generation and the last few games have been tough due to injury and suspension. I trust Emery to guide us through it! Edited January 27 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesterDad Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 6 hours ago, villa4europe said: The difficult thing for me is two fold with villa fans Firstly this guaranteed goalscorer doesn't exist, the number 9 is dying a death, the striker market is shit, said this many times I see Liverpool paying £80m for nunez, he ain't better than Ollie, it's salah and their multiple goalscorers that cover for him, I simply don't believe that we are buying anyone better Secondly the expectation of ollie is seemingly that he does something that no has done for 40 years, score the 20 goals, you look at who hasn't done it for us Atkinson, Yorke, Saunders, carew, benteke, angel, gabby... Ollie is up there with the best players who preceded him but there's an unfair expectation for him to be something that we've never really had I personally don't see an ex villa striker that I could genuinely say if we had him we'd be better, I'm not looking at this team and our set up saying if we had prime benteke rather than Ollie we'd be winning tonight You make some good points ( I do challenge having Gobby in that line up mind) . I am not really having a dig at Ollie’s goal returns to be honest - My question is more about his ability to make the ball stick in the heat of the moment. I felt the service into him last night was pretty poor really - but this just further highlights the need for good technique and hold up play in those rare moments. This is what probably makes the difference between a goal scoring opportunity being manufactured or a team mate being brought into the mix. Ollie offers so much however in other areas that it feels harsh to single him out - but I do feel that we do need a striker who can improve our attacking threat and compliment and/or replace Ollie in certain situations, such as last night . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesterDad Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 5 hours ago, thabucks said: Fickle fans is a deserved monikor for us Villa fans ( well some ) best striker we’ve had since Yorke and 3rd only to Salah & Haaland yet that’s still not enough for some it’s **** nuts is the criticism coming from posters who think Solanke would be a good purchase cause if so go and look at his figures, then come back with some rationality. Think you are correct in some points you make, but I don’t think you can blame fans for highlighting certain things - which are there for all to see, and neither can you blame fans for wishing for improvement either. Totally agree about Solanke mind. Personally I would go for Hee Chan - not that I think he would outscore Ollie, just that he offers an alternative style, when under the cosh or when things are not sticking in the final third. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 He needs to get out of this slump, 4 league games without a goal and 6 games without a goal if you include the FA Cup games. He is our main striker, we need consistency from him. He has to do better against Newcastle from the first minute, he looked more lively towards the end of yesterday's game which is encouraging, he has to do that for 90 minutes. Most importantly he needs a goal, he seems to have been stuck on 9 league goals for ages. People keep using excuses saying no service, well he has to stop looking lazy and standing still all the time and make runs whenever Tielemans, Luiz or McGinn have the ball in good positions. If there's no movement from him how the hell are they supposed to find him in the box. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 I think a few players form has dipped a bit in the last few games. Diaby is offering little. He will get it back but he needs better service as well and more support. Instances like Moreno getting in behind them and can't even beat the first man with his cross come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody1000 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 In a bit of a slump goalscoring-wise, but he’s feeding off scraps. If he’s missing lots of chances then I’d be worried, but he’s barely getting a sniff most games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 It probably hasn't helped that whenever he's been asked by the media about why he's scoring and contributing more he's told them literally exactly what he's been told to do enabling other teams to figure it out instantly. Just say something vague like 'we are working on certain things in training and it's paying off'. Let them sus it out themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Woody1000 said: In a bit of a slump goalscoring-wise, but he’s feeding off scraps. If he’s missing lots of chances then I’d be worried, but he’s barely getting a sniff most games. Then he needs to work harder to make space for himself. I noticed last night, he's looking for the ball in no space at all, he ain't gonna get the pass if he's got 2 players around him. I'm not sure why people are shocked anyway, this is typical Watkin's. Can look brilliant on form scoring goals, then gets lazy for a run of games. I'm sure Emery is saying to Ollie "I understand your not getting goals, but don't worry, I'll bollock the other players for not passing you the ball". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) On 27/12/2023 at 11:58, Leeroy said: I genuinely think Solanke might take his Euro 2024 spot at this rate and he'd only have himself to blame. Solanke has scored three more goals in a worse team and is in great form, if he keeps that form going I really wouldn't be surprised to see Southgate call him up over Watkins who isn't clinical enough and too often is anonymous in games that aren't being played to his strengths. Barely noticed him again last night. I think is an hackneyed phrase in football, that smacks of excuses......Top players, play in many different styles of football, from club to club. Alan Shearer once said, (when confronted with this question) You adapt to the environment around you......discerning strikers, find a way, they make it their business to score, they don't wait for chances, they seek chances, they demand chances, from their team mates. Goal scoring is an art, but its primarily Football IQ and reading the game, to be first to the ball, timing is paramount, and that means being alert at all times.. Centre Backs in the Prem are very competent, so errors are few.....as a striker, you have to make them, make errors, that may mean, close contact, and forcing doubt in to their game......waiting for mistakes, is passive, imv. Edited January 27 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 5 hours ago, Leeroy said: He needs to get out of this slump, 4 league games without a goal and 6 games without a goal if you include the FA Cup games. He is our main striker, we need consistency from him. He has to do better against Newcastle from the first minute, he looked more lively towards the end of yesterday's game which is encouraging, he has to do that for 90 minutes. Most importantly he needs a goal, he seems to have been stuck on 9 league goals for ages. People keep using excuses saying no service, well he has to stop looking lazy and standing still all the time and make runs whenever Tielemans, Luiz or McGinn have the ball in good positions. If there's no movement from him how the hell are they supposed to find him in the box. Ollie on form is a very good front man....but he relies on the team playing well....He lacks aggression for me, and I mean aggression with himself......Cyril Regis was a bit like that, really nice guys....John Sillet his manager at Coventry, used to hose him down before a game to fire him up....strikers like Andy Gray, Peter withe, Ivan Toney, were intrinsically aggressive, on the pitch.....they made things happen. I am just guessing....but it just looks ok from him, if he fails to score, something needs to change.....He has to find some aggression, from somewhere.....on top of 2 more without it, Diaby and Bailey, the front 3 are looking toothless. I have no issue with Ollies, technical abilities....its his mental approach to games, that concerns me. Edited January 27 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 11 hours ago, thabucks said: Irrational cristcism will be challenged appropriately. Some posters opinions are just wacko and not based on any tangible facts or any form of reality so they should be treated as such and if they don’t like it come back with an articulated response and let’s debate it. Thats fine....but even articulated observations are challenged too, by folk, who just don't want any form of downside debated. Its difficult to debate, some of our issues, without a reference to taking it as a sleight on our Manager. UE is the best thing to happen to us, but there are other very good managers trying to beat him, and that needs to be respected. UE is human first and foremost, and he works extremely hard to get things right, and we all appreciate that.....but sometimes things go wrong, its not always his fault, so surely we can talk about such times. Surely, we can talk about why things might have gone wrong, without seeking blame....sometimes a bit of credit to the opposition, might be in order, when things do go wrong....all sorts of opinions, should be welcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 I’m not worried about Ollie, I’m worried about our lack of attacking threat due to how we’re trying to create chances which isn’t working 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 23 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said: I’m not worried about Ollie, I’m worried about our lack of attacking threat due to how we’re trying to create chances which isn’t working One of the things teams have been doing to counter our counter-attacking threat is the same thing that Liverpool did earlier, essentially employing an empty midfield shape. Chelsea would frequently have 4 or 5 players on their back line and then have 4 or 5 forwards trying to break the trap with maybe only Caicedo or Enzo truly in between the lines. So even when we won the ball back, Ollie and Diaby were not going to be 1v1 but more like 2v4. An interesting wrinkle as teams try to break the trap but still have lots of numbers back to defend against our pace. Consider other matches where Ollie and Diaby (or Bailey) were frequently in 1v1 positions on the counter and it’s another reason why our chances seem limited. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 19 minutes ago, DJBOB said: So even when we won the ball back, Ollie and Diaby were not going to be 1v1 but more like 2v4. An interesting wrinkle as teams try to break the trap but still have lots of numbers back to defend against our pace. Consider other matches where Ollie and Diaby (or Bailey) were frequently in 1v1 positions on the counter and it’s another reason why our chances seem limited. This is it I think and that’s why it’s hard to criticise Ollie etc he’s not missing chances, he’s not getting them. The most he’s on the ball atm is on our half way line 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 30 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said: This is it I think and that’s why it’s hard to criticise Ollie etc he’s not missing chances, he’s not getting them. The most he’s on the ball atm is on our half way line This. Full backs and front line are givijg him nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 It's no surprise Watkins isn't scoring as the team is not creating many chances for him. Our overall performances have definitely dipped since the man city game - probably as a result of being taken more seriously. Most of the opponents we have played since have been very compact and made it difficult for us. The games have been tight where we have just about scrapped a win or drawn. If we can work out how to counter this approach Watkins we'll be scoring more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 3 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Then he needs to work harder to make space for himself. I noticed last night, he's looking for the ball in no space at all, he ain't gonna get the pass if he's got 2 players around him. I'm not sure why people are shocked anyway, this is typical Watkin's. Can look brilliant on form scoring goals, then gets lazy for a run of games. I'm sure Emery is saying to Ollie "I understand your not getting goals, but don't worry, I'll bollock the other players for not passing you the ball". I think he needs to work smarter, more than harder. Ollie is like many players, good at somethings, not so good at others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 22 hours ago, GingerCollins29 said: This. Full backs and front line are givijg him nothing that is true....but its a two way -street, you have to give players the opportunity to find you....top strikers make runs, and players find them.....when one of those things break down, we look flat. also the creators in our team, are suffocated too easily, by willing midfielders, who go after them.....we have to look at the source of some of these issues, its not always not feeding strikers, through creativity.... we are sometimes denied from making creative passes, by industrious midfielders in the opposition. Ollie doesn't look sharp at the moment, and that could be, because many others in the team don't either......I still believe, teams score goals, and fully functioning teams make the opportunities for their strikers, and vice versa, its synergistic. Edited January 28 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TRO said: I think he needs to work smarter, more than harder. Ollie is like many players, good at somethings, not so good at others. Smarter how though? His overall game has improved this season, 8 assists in the league is excellent. I don’t think there’s anything different Ollie can do when the reason he’s not getting chances starts from the defence, Everton for example he’s chasing long balls and battling tarkowski for knock downs. He’s been working smarter since Emery arrived, I just think we need to evolve even more in the final third and how we get there Edited January 27 by IrishVilla10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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