Ollie Watkins

[maqroll]

Buying Ings was a mistake. We should sell him and upgrade. Keep Ollie on to provide competition. 

Neymar

Watkins

Archer

That'll do.

[tyklip]

3 hours ago, og1874 said:

Too many people confuse "running around a lot" with "giving 100% for the team"

Ollie runs around a lot

No, Watkin's workrate is *so* far above everyone else's and every other striker I've ever seen. It's fair to say doing that is giving 100% for the team. 

[Anything11]

4 hours ago, nick76 said:

It’s never Watkins fault, not one bit…

Did you even read what he wrote?

[sparrow1988]

6 hours ago, Anything11 said:

Did you even read what he wrote?

 

[nick76]

6 hours ago, Anything11 said:

Did you even read what he wrote?

Yes I did

[villa4europe]

Still think it would be easier to get Watkins mojo back than it would be to replace him

If he does leave it will be to someone like arsenal or West ham and he will go back to being a 20 goal striker and go the world cup and we'll sit here with someone who is not better 

[IrishVilla10]

23 hours ago, nick76 said:

That the one thing some of us are questionable this season, is that he isn’t giving 100%.  Forgetting his goals for the moment, his general play has been very poor this season and while some people blame the change in personnel around him or the team playing poor that’s only half the story, Ollie has been poor, his first touch has got worse and he isn’t doing as much or as effective as last season.

I think he’s been really exposed on the ball. It’s almost like he’s better when he doesn’t have time to think about what he’s doing. One/two touch finishes etc. I don’t think that’s going to cut it. I was really critical of the Ings signing but he’s a much better all round player. 

[og1874]

8 hours ago, tyklip said:

No, Watkin's workrate is *so* far above everyone else's and every other striker I've ever seen. It's fair to say doing that is giving 100% for the team. 

Again, you say workrate, I say running around a lot. They're not the same thing

[nick76]

35 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Still think it would be easier to get Watkins mojo back than it would be to replace him

If he does leave it will be to someone like arsenal or West ham and he will go back to being a 20 goal striker and go the world cup and we'll sit here with someone who is not better 

There are a few problems though aside from your last paragraph which is best case scenario for Ollie, he could easily be average or even fail, we just don’t know.  Anyway things to consider…

• Has Watkins mojo currently gone or was he good last season but now opposition has figured how to play against him
• was he a player that was better without crowds
• did Jack make him look better than he actually is
• does he fit Gerrard’s formation/style going forwards
• can Ollie improve his first touch, strike rate and also influence when we are up against it
• Do Gerrard have somebody in mind to replace him so best to get a premium for him now.  New manager, new ideas premise.
• is Ollie happy here or does he have eyes elsewhere especially if his boyhood team are interested, European football and the lure of London
• Are Villa interested in making a good profit on him, they’ve talked about making profits on players before

[nick76]

8 hours ago, tyklip said:

No, Watkin's workrate last season was *so* far above everyone else's and every other striker I've ever seen. It's fair to say doing that is giving 100% for the team, no idea where that has gone this season

FTFY

[tinker]

Can't judge any of our players ATM, none of them are playing anywhere near their best. Once they have learnt the system then we should see improvements all over.

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, tinker said:

Can't judge any of our players ATM, none of them are playing anywhere near their best. Once they have learnt the system then we should see improvements all over.

So we aren’t likely to find out much more in the next 9 games so what do we do in the summer?  We have to judge players based on now so we don’t waste the summer and arguably next season.  

Gerrard will be under the microscope next season and I doubt he’ll go into that season without making this team his own as much as that is feasibly possible in the summer.  I think he, Lange and the recruitment will be judging all the players ATM.

[tinker]

Just now, nick76 said:

So we aren’t likely to find out much more in the next 9 games so what do we do in the summer?  We have to judge players based on now so we don’t waste the summer and arguably next season.  

Gerrard will be under the microscope next season and I doubt he’ll go into that season without making this team his own as much as that is feasibly possible in the summer.  I think he, Lange and the recruitment will be judging all the players ATM.

Maybe but we haven't got the money to completely start again and as it stands we need to replace quite a few that were performing at higher levels last season. An improvement on Ollie would be £40-50m on its own. Ings is proven over quite a few seasons and he isn't showing any great form ATM. They all need more time . 

[CVByrne]

14 hours ago, nick76 said:

It’s never Watkins fault, not one bit…

Not what I said. How much of this is Watkins out of form regardless of the change of system nobody knows

Bit you can't criticise him for not pressing as much when he's instructed not to. 

[nick76]

1 minute ago, tinker said:

Maybe but we haven't got the money to completely start again and as it stands we need to replace quite a few that were performing at higher levels last season. An improvement on Ollie would be £40-50m on its own. Ings is proven over quite a few seasons and he isn't showing any great form ATM. They all need more time . 

I don’t think it’s about starting again but there could be some significant reconstruction but also it might only be minor.  Selling Grealish has given us significant spare FFP capacity, if we sold some of the fringe players plus for example Ollie and Dougie we could be pushing £80-100m we could have a good warchest when you combine both.  You could easily see a couple of big buys, a few younger players plus some cheap but higher wages experienced players who would change the first team materially.

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Not what I said. How much of this is Watkins out of form regardless of the change of system nobody knows

Bit you can't criticise him for not pressing as much when he's instructed not to. 

He didn’t under Smith this season who hadn’t changed his philosophy and he doesn’t under Gerrard when you say Gerrard has changed it which is debatable. Even though I don’t agree with your point, even when Ollie is up against an opponent with the ball he’s not battling/competing as he was last season. I’ve watched him closely lately in our games and aside from the ball bouncing off him with his first poor touch, he’s winning less and less of his one on one battles.  The last two games it’s almost as if his opponent has wanted it more.  Now rightly you can argue that it could be said we could argue that for most of our players but in this thread this is just about Ollie.

My original point is that by some commentators that it’s never Watkins fault, it’s always somebody or something else.  Yes the formation might have impacted him, yes losing the likes of Jack and Smith may have impacted him, the change in philosophy, bringing in new players like Coutinho and Ings, having a baby…we can keep going on but there is a part where Ollie needs to take some personal ownership that after 75% of the season he hasn’t adapted, he hasn’t taken it as a challenge, he seems to have gone in himself but the concern is that last season was a one off.  Also is Watkins out of form or just doesn’t work in this system.

[rodders0223]

He doesn't work hard at all, not for a long time.

He might pretend he's working hard running sideways "pressing" defenders when there is no chance of him getting within 10 yards of them.

Is he running in behind constantly, is he dropping off to hold the ball, spinning in behind? Is he being an absolute pest in people's faces? Is he battling physically which is more hard work that faux pressing? Not at all. He's basically static 90% of the time we have the ball.

He's contributing nothing, he's trying to con basically and I can't see what he is doing. We haven't got the ball so I'm going to job from the left side to right side of the pitch pretending I'm working

[tinker]

17 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I don’t think it’s about starting again but there could be some significant reconstruction but also it might only be minor.  Selling Grealish has given us significant spare FFP capacity, if we sold some of the fringe players plus for example Ollie and Dougie we could be pushing £80-100m we could have a good warchest when you combine both.  You could easily see a couple of big buys, a few younger players plus some cheap but higher wages experienced players who would change the first team materially.

I can't see that amount leading to those type of changes, Ollie's replacement alone would be 40-50m and that's like for like , Dougie's in his final year and will hang on for a free transfer and a big wage. We will have to pay 30m for Coutinho and a very big wage, Grealish money is all gone with Digne's, Bailey and Ings. 

[nick76]

10 minutes ago, tinker said:

I can't see that amount leading to those type of changes, Ollie's replacement alone would be 40-50m and that's like for like , Dougie's in his final year and will hang on for a free transfer and a big wage. We will have to pay 30m for Coutinho and a very big wage, Grealish money is all gone with Digne's, Bailey and Ings. 

Well I think you’re wrong on some of your points because Purslow has said January has set us up for a “big summer”, which was talked about a lot on this forum a month or so ago.

[nick76]

29 minutes ago, tinker said:

I can't see that amount leading to those type of changes, Ollie's replacement alone would be 40-50m and that's like for like , Dougie's in his final year and will hang on for a free transfer and a big wage. We will have to pay 30m for Coutinho and a very big wage, Grealish money is all gone with Digne's, Bailey and Ings. 

Even our new players are talking about the project and several have talked about changes in the summer

Everybody from the club mentions this summer from top to bottom.  They can’t all be misleading us, the new players will have insight of the ambition without knowing details but will know more than us.  Everything points to not a quiet summer at the very minimum but generally points to a big summer.  What that means…who knows.