Genie Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 He's an incredible specimen. I was always undecided on who I considered the best of the 2, it has to be Ronaldo for his international exploits. He takes Portugal onto a level they really shouldn't be performing at given the quality in their squad. On the other hand Messi, if anything, is hindering Argentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 58 minutes ago, Genie said: On the other hand Messi, if anything, is hindering Argentina. history will forget it but you could probably argue higuain has hindered messi / argentina a little bit more Ronaldo is now 25 caps away from topping Hassan as the most capped player ever* and 17 goals from ali daei, he should beat both * there are 4 players ahead of him still playing who have more caps, including Sergio ramos and 32 year old Guardado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 Just the 45 goals in his last 45 competitive Internationals. Including hat-tricks against Spain at the World Cup and the Swiss in the Nations League semi-finals. Absolute beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) The hat trick away in Sweden in the "Zlatan vs Ronaldo" playoff too, for me that was one of those games which cements a player's legacy. Edited September 11, 2019 by The_Rev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Genie said: He's an incredible specimen. I was always undecided on who I considered the best of the 2, it has to be Ronaldo for his international exploits. He takes Portugal onto a level they really shouldn't be performing at given the quality in their squad. On the other hand Messi, if anything, is hindering Argentina. I just can't agree with that. I think the portuguese are a much better team than Argentina and it has nothing to do with Ronaldo or Messi. Argentina used to be very similar to Portugual, i.e. hardworking and highly organized, but that's some how disappeared the last 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I just can't agree with that. I think the portuguese are a much better team than Argentina and it has nothing to do with Ronaldo or Messi. Argentina used to be very similar to Portugual, i.e. hardworking and highly organized, but that's some how disappeared the last 20 years. I am guilty of over simplifying the situation so sorry about that. The contrast seems to be that both sides seem to go with the plan to give it to Messi/Ronaldo and wait for some magic. Ronaldo seems to consistently deliver for Portugal and revels in that role with that responsibility. Messi doesn't seem to have anything like the same impact for Argentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 I think it's as simple as Ronaldo is a key man in a very very good team. Messi is a key man in a bang average team. Argentina has star players, but a shit team. Portugal has both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 24 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I think it's as simple as Ronaldo is a key man in a very very good team. Messi is a key man in a bang average team. Argentina has star players, but a shit team. Portugal has both. At the moment yes, but Argentina have had some great players and good teams during Messi's time as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 31 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I think it's as simple as Ronaldo is a key man in a very very good team. Messi is a key man in a bang average team. Argentina has star players, but a shit team. Portugal has both. I couldn’t disagree with this more. Surely no-one can argue that over the last 15 years Argentina have had far superior players to Portugal. Hence why they’ve been among the top 4 favourites for almost every World Cup in that time, it’s only within the last year or so you could say Portugal has had a superior side. To say they’ve worked as a bang average team during that point whilst Portugal has been very very good is also just untrue. Portugal as a whole have flattered to deceive as much as anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 looking at the players on paper over simplifies argentina's problems argentina's awesome looking squad suffer from the same as our shambolic relegation season and englands "golden generation" - none of the **** want to be there, its a complete mental thing (awaiting the next oversimplification that captain messi should be able to resolve this issue...) I think even if higuain could finish his dinner and they were sat on 1 trophy each Ronaldo has pulled away in international performances and obviously international goals but you still wont convince me he's a better footballer than messi because he's not, 4 goals vs Lithuania isn't going to change that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 and fwiw Portugal haven't had a great start to the qualifiers, drawn with Ukraine and Serbia and are currently 5 points off Ukraine, that's in a group with Ukraine (25th in the world), Serbia (35th), Luxembourg (91st) and Lithuania (130th) messi doing not a lot in international games such as qualifiers vs brazil (2nd) Uruguay (5th) and Colombia (8th) the lowest ranked team is Bolivia (73rd) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: and fwiw Portugal haven't had a great start to the qualifiers, drawn with Ukraine and Serbia and are currently 5 points off Ukraine, that's in a group with Ukraine (25th in the world), Serbia (35th), Luxembourg (91st) and Lithuania (130th) messi doing not a lot in international games such as qualifiers vs brazil (2nd) Uruguay (5th) and Colombia (8th) the lowest ranked team is Bolivia (73rd) Portugal have a game in hand and Ronaldo came off injured in one of them draws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 Worst thing about Ronalod and Messi, is them being constantly compared to each other. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: Portugal have a game in hand and Ronaldo came off injured in one of them draws but coming off injured in games doesn't count with Ronaldo cos he can stand on the side line and still influence his team on to victory 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 minute ago, useless said: Worst thing about Ronalod and Messi, is them being constantly compared to each other. worst thing about football is players being compared to each other especially now we have the stat driven Americanisation of the game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 Great players get compared no matter the sport. For me, you swap their nationalities and there’s no way Ronaldo doesn’t win at least a few trophies in the last 15 years for Argentina. Portugal would be weaker without Ronaldo even swapped with Messi. Yes Argentina have been a mess for a few years but it hasn’t always been that way. And I honestly don’t think Messi with his retiring in a strop after losing in a penalty shoot out etc helps the team cohesion at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, penguin said: Great players get compared no matter the sport. For me, you swap their nationalities and there’s no way Ronaldo doesn’t win at least a few trophies in the last 15 years for Argentina. Portugal would be weaker without Ronaldo even swapped with Messi. Yes Argentina have been a mess for a few years but it hasn’t always been that way. And I honestly don’t think Messi with his retiring in a strop after losing in a penalty shoot out etc helps the team cohesion at all. Agreed. The Portugal squad that won the Euros was a bunch of underperformers and has-beens. Without Ronaldo, they don't even get out of the groups, to suggest the other 10 players in that team are anywhere near the level of Argentina is madness IMO. If Ronaldo was from Argentina, they have at least 2 Copa's and a World Cup in the last 15 years. Particularly as they seem to play the Copa every year these days! Edited September 11, 2019 by kurtsimonw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 I think I settled the argument of who's the better of the two with this thoughtful thought experiment... If you could sign either one for your own club as a youngster, with the guarantee that they'd be just as good as they've been in their careers proper, then which one would you pick? There's no way that I wouldn't choose Messi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, useless said: I think I settled the argument of who's the better of the two with this thoughtful thought experiment... If you could sign either one for your own club as a youngster, with the guarantee that they'd be just as good as they've been in their careers proper, then which one would you pick? There's no way that I wouldn't choose Messi. Ronaldo. Messi is a great player but he struggles a lot outside the Barcelona system and style. Put Ronaldo or Messi in out 2015/16 relegation team and Ronaldo would still hit 20 goals, Messi might get 10-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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