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omariqy

The Rebuild

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One of the best bits about off season for me in any normal sort of circumstances (even for us!) when we all start posting line-ups and possible formations and all that.

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1 hour ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Couldn't decide which thread to post this in...... this thread was the best candidate.

A year ago when we finished 13th (or wherever the heck it was) I thought being an Aston Villa fan couldn't get more depressing. 

The club I love never fail to prove me wrong. 

By the time we have sold everyone worth anything we will be left with old (maybe still useful), the overpaid and the young and untested.

So I have set my dreams for next season accordingly.

If we can avoid relegation and discover that some of our youth are up to the championship level, then the rebuild can begin and maybe we can strive to be strong again.

Everyone will have their differing opinions but if anyone thinks that we are safe next season, because we are AVFC, you are deluded. 

If you offered me 21st place and 3 or 4 youngsters blooded with a full season I would take it in a heartbeat. 

The real ball kicker is that IF any of our youngsters step up they will need to be sold next year to make up the shortcomings.

Fantastic isnt it!

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Trying to put my realistic hat on. And have a guess at what we can expect.

Surely Grealish and Chester will have a few suitors.

I can't imagine the likes of Kodjia, Hourihane, Green, Bjarnason, Lansbury, Elmohamady, RDL, Elphick and Adomah NOT having at least some enquiries.

Jedinak and Whelan have some pedigree but their ages may put off some potential buyers. (Jedinak off home/Asia/USA wouldn't be the worst thing he could do imo)

Maybe there's a sniff or two for some of the nippers (Bree, KD, JDH, RHM, COH etc)

Hutton's here isn't he. I fear Bunn will stay on too.

Gardner, Tshibola, Lyden, Hogan and Taylor - I can't see why anyone would want them. Maybe another loan for GG and Tshibola looms

McCormack and Richards have their own problems

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Up front I can see Kodjia leaving, McCormack getting a loan somewhere and us loaning a striker.

I think GK is done isn't it Bunn maybe staying on as back-up/3rd choice. Steer and Sarkic step up the order.

I can see Grealish and Adomah leaving along with Hourihane. Whether BB and Lansbury stick around I don't know. Can't see anyone wanting Whelan. If Jedinak doesn't go I think we'll see him at CB next year. Gardner Tshibola and Lyden don't strike me as useful options for different reasons. Leaving Green and if Grealish is off, him staying could be crucial, if only for some sort of hope for the future for us fans. Would still need a right winger from somewhere. And ultimately who knows?

Defense is just as big a mess. Can see Hutton and Taylor lining up for us next year. Whether Bree stays remains to be seen. Elmo may stay and be used a bit more advanced. Can't see RDL being here though

CB is our biggest problem. Can't see Chester or Elphick being here. Think Jedi moving to CB is more likely myself.

I can see a mid table finish in there if we can keep a few experienced heads. Who we can fill the gaps with is sooo important.

That's assuming we aren't stuck in a situation where can't offload any of them and go bust before Easter :(

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13 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

Up front I can see Kodjia leaving, McCormack getting a loan somewhere and us loaning a striker.

I think GK is done isn't it Bunn maybe staying on as back-up/3rd choice. Steer and Sarkic step up the order.

I can see Grealish and Adomah leaving along with Hourihane. Whether BB and Lansbury stick around I don't know. Can't see anyone wanting Whelan. If Jedinak doesn't go I think we'll see him at CB next year. Gardner Tshibola and Lyden don't strike me as useful options for different reasons. Leaving Green and if Grealish is off, him staying could be crucial, if only for some sort of hope for the future for us fans. Would still need a right winger from somewhere. And ultimately who knows?

Defense is just as big a mess. Can see Hutton and Taylor lining up for us next year. Whether Bree stays remains to be seen. Elmo may stay and be used a bit more advanced. Can't see RDL being here though

CB is our biggest problem. Can't see Chester or Elphick being here. Think Jedi moving to CB is more likely myself.

I can see a mid table finish in there if we can keep a few experienced heads. Who we can fill the gaps with is sooo important.

That's assuming we aren't stuck in a situation where can't offload any of them and go bust before Easter :(

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As an outsider, I think your last sentence is the key one. You’ve been paying so high, the question is not whether other clubs want eg Kodjia, but whether any will pick up their contracts. Why would Kodjia leave if Villa are obliged to pay him £40K (?) and nobody else will? That is your millstone.

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2 minutes ago, Leveller said:

As an outsider, I think your last sentence is the key one. You’ve been paying so high, the question is not whether other clubs want eg Kodjia, but whether any will pick up their contracts. Why would Kodjia leave if Villa are obliged to pay him £40K (?) and nobody else will? That is your millstone.

Aye, trying to find something to do in On Topic other than complain about everything tbh :thumb:

But we have offloaded some real dross in the last 2-3 years. There's always hope. Someone actually paid cash money for Bacuna! And Gestede!

Believe me, getting stuck with Kodjia would be great from where I'm sitting as long as we don't end up turning off the lights.

Fine/relegation/points deduction - yeah, whatever really when the other side of the coin is non-existence.

And I'm not even HALF joking you know :D The truth in that is more 70% ish - to 30% joking :D

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Just now, VILLAMARV said:

Someone actually paid cash money for Bacuna

No matter how dark a night we find ourselves lost in, this very fact reassures us that the sun will once again emerge. Might be a bit cloudy though. #AmazingAnalogies

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4 minutes ago, Jareth said:

No matter how dark a night we find ourselves lost in, this very fact reassures us that the sun will once again emerge. Might be a bit cloudy though. #AmazingAnalogies

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I think at present it's more a case of destroying our team rather than rebuilding it. It would be nice to think we could try to do some rebuilding in a year or so or when we have a cash injection which is much needed but presently far from likely. Sadly I anticipate starting the season without Jack, Kodjia and Chester, along with anyone else that another club wants to buy or loan to save us paying some of their wages and possibly get a small loan fee. Hopefully we can bring in a couple of loans to play them alongside our kids and what we have left. Sorry to sound so negative but I have not got "Football's coming home" to lighten up my mood anymore. :( 

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1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said:

Aye, trying to find something to do in On Topic other than complain about everything tbh :thumb:

But we have offloaded some real dross in the last 2-3 years. There's always hope. Someone actually paid cash money for Bacuna! And Gestede!

Believe me, getting stuck with Kodjia would be great from where I'm sitting as long as we don't end up turning off the lights.

Fine/relegation/points deduction - yeah, whatever really when the other side of the coin is non-existence.

And I'm not even HALF joking you know :D The truth in that is more 70% ish - to 30% joking :D

From a playing point of view “getting stuck with Kodjia” is fine - he did well for us and we didn’t resent his move. The issue is more financial - if lots of high earners stay, can Tony’s Here afford to keep paying them all. If not, where next?

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Seriously though. I mean it all. Make us bust if you want. Sell the ground. Move us to Milton ******* Keynes if you like but I'll live and breathe this club as long as there is days left in me. We'll support whoever wears the shirt despite all the crowing in here and no one's going to stop that. AFC Wimbledon and all that. WE are AVFC.

Watching those clubs suffer - Aldershot was the first I can remember - means it's in the realms of possibility. If a succession of owners has left us in that sort of peril then that's the reality.

Obviously I'd love us to get bought out etc etc etc but if it's chickens coming home to roost time then so be it and we'll suck it up or fold and re-emerge. They are ultimately the two possibilities. Everything else is a lot of fuss and bluster at the end of the day. If I had a hand in running things it would need some undivided attention but as a fan I'm there to hope we win. Simple as.

I don't see the need for a massive campaign against him at this stage and I think, like Lerner, once his valuation is realistic then he'll find a buyer. I don't think he'll be in a position to turn much down by the sound of it.

The immediate concern is obviously FFP, points deductions and all that jazz. And either we will or wont meet those requirements.

I prefer to think of Aston Villa in terms of only dying once the last person on earth breathes our name, and that's a long way off :thumb:

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Edited by VILLAMARV

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20 minutes ago, Leveller said:

From a playing point of view “getting stuck with Kodjia” is fine - he did well for us and we didn’t resent his move. The issue is more financial - if lots of high earners stay, can Tony’s Here afford to keep paying them all. If not, where next?

Pay him £10k a week to play for someone else.

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With a good chance of Tuanzebe returning on loan I wouldn't mind us pairing him and Elphick together, may need some time but they could compliment each other. 

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These are the players with a year left on their contract. Jedinak, Whelan, De Laet, Elphick, Richards.

It is my hope that De Laet and Elphick can secure longer term deals elsewhere on reduced wages, so they will be shifted with us paying a small portion.

Jedi and Whelan will be more tricky due to them only being able to secure 1 year deals anyway. Best bet is both of them can secure 12 months elsewhere and we can save half their salary.

Richards will ride it out.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

These are the players with a year left on their contract. Jedinak, Whelan, De Laet, Elphick, Richards.

It is my hope that De Laet and Elphick can secure longer term deals elsewhere on reduced wages, so they will be shifted with us paying a small portion.

Jedi and Whelan will be more tricky due to them only being able to secure 1 year deals anyway. Best bet is both of them can secure 12 months elsewhere and we can save half their salary.

Richards will ride it out.

 

 

 

 

There’s talk of Jedi getting a deal now so on your scenario that leaves us Whelan and Richards. :(

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3 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

 

Richards will ride it out.

 

 

 

 

That sounds like way too much physical activity for Richards. 

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So what a fun month... No transfers in and serious lack of cash... From what I said before, there are 1 or 2 differences due to lack of movement on our part... From my list last month: 

New GK -  Henderson/Hart/Westwood/Hennessey however Henderson has now gone to Sheffield Utd, Hennessey has signed a new contract, Westwood appears to be settled well into Wednesday's preseason and given our financial issues we probably couldn't afford. Hart same issue but depends on how keen Man City to get rid? Myhill is available though possibly? With Bunn signing more likely to be Steer/Sarkic/Bunn though I suspect... Just bloody hope Steer can stay fit... 

New LB - Henry/Clark/another - Clark has gone to Vitesse in Holland... Henry we probably couldn't afford... Hutton has resigned - probably the alternate choice for LB? 

2 New CBs  - Tuanzebe/Huth/someone else - Tuanzebe is looking more likely. Huth - being linked so we shall wait and see... Elphick more likely to stay but would he be content being 3rd or 4th Choice? Bedeau and Suliman possibly brought in as well? 

New RW (Bayliss/another) - Bayliss still possible and could be relatively cheaper! Could also be a good shout for the central midfield spot that seems to be imminently vacated by someone leaving... :bang:

New LW (Shipley/Hoilett) - Shipley is still at Coventry, see Bayliss above. Holiett has signed a new contract with Cardiff... 

New ST (Grabban/Hernandez) - Grabban has gone to Forest, though for a relatively big fee for a player the wrong side of 30... Hernandez still available but likely to be out of price range for wages now... 

Team to look something like this now?

GK: (New GK)/Steer/Sarkic/Bunn
RB: Elmohamady/Bree/De Laet
LB: Taylor/Hutton/(De Laet)
CB: Chester/(Tuanzebe)/(Huth)/(Elphick/Suliman/Bedeau)
DM: Jedinak/Whelan
CM: Hourihane/Lansbury/Bjarnason 
RW: Adomah/(Bayliss)
LW: Green/(Shipley)
AM: O’Hare
ST: Kodjia/Hogan/Davis/(RHM)
 

Plus Richards, Tishbola & McCormack because quite frankly I expect no one to take them... One most likely being Tishbola...

 

Overall, if we only end up selling Grealish of the 1st team, then we can still maintain some competitiveness, however, it requires some clever spending and a bit of luck... GK and AM main concerns, if Steer can stay fit, I don't have an issue. Hopefully O'Hare can make the step up and if we sign Bayliss/Shipley could they possibly take up that role as well? Green I am pretty confident well shore up the LW spot. 

So then, who's in charge of all this??? :bang:

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8 hours ago, cyrusr said:

So what a fun month... No transfers in and serious lack of cash... From what I said before, there are 1 or 2 differences due to lack of movement on our part... From my list last month: 

New GK -  Henderson/Hart/Westwood/Hennessey however Henderson has now gone to Sheffield Utd, Hennessey has signed a new contract, Westwood appears to be settled well into Wednesday's preseason and given our financial issues we probably couldn't afford. Hart same issue but depends on how keen Man City to get rid? Myhill is available though possibly? With Bunn signing more likely to be Steer/Sarkic/Bunn though I suspect... Just bloody hope Steer can stay fit... 

New LB - Henry/Clark/another - Clark has gone to Vitesse in Holland... Henry we probably couldn't afford... Hutton has resigned - probably the alternate choice for LB? 

2 New CBs  - Tuanzebe/Huth/someone else - Tuanzebe is looking more likely. Huth - being linked so we shall wait and see... Elphick more likely to stay but would he be content being 3rd or 4th Choice? Bedeau and Suliman possibly brought in as well? 

New RW (Bayliss/another) - Bayliss still possible and could be relatively cheaper! Could also be a good shout for the central midfield spot that seems to be imminently vacated by someone leaving... :bang:

New LW (Shipley/Hoilett) - Shipley is still at Coventry, see Bayliss above. Holiett has signed a new contract with Cardiff... 

New ST (Grabban/Hernandez) - Grabban has gone to Forest, though for a relatively big fee for a player the wrong side of 30... Hernandez still available but likely to be out of price range for wages now... 

Team to look something like this now?

GK: (New GK)/Steer/Sarkic/Bunn
RB: Elmohamady/Bree/De Laet
LB: Taylor/Hutton/(De Laet)
CB: Chester/(Tuanzebe)/(Huth)/(Elphick/Suliman/Bedeau)
DM: Jedinak/Whelan
CM: Hourihane/Lansbury/Bjarnason 
RW: Adomah/(Bayliss)
LW: Green/(Shipley)
AM: O’Hare
ST: Kodjia/Hogan/Davis/(RHM)
 

Plus Richards, Tishbola & McCormack because quite frankly I expect no one to take them... One most likely being Tishbola...

 

Overall, if we only end up selling Grealish of the 1st team, then we can still maintain some competitiveness, however, it requires some clever spending and a bit of luck... GK and AM main concerns, if Steer can stay fit, I don't have an issue. Hopefully O'Hare can make the step up and if we sign Bayliss/Shipley could they possibly take up that role as well? Green I am pretty confident well shore up the LW spot. 

So then, who's in charge of all this??? :bang:

So, applying this and taking into consideration that BB and MJ seem.to be leaving AND assuming that all of JG, Chester and Kodija will be leaving we could still have a starting 11 of Steer / Bunn  - Elmo, Tuanzebe, Elphick, Hutton - Adomah, Hourihane, Lansbury, Whelan, Green - Davis/Hogan. Subs Bree, Taylor, RHM (IF he stays fit he could be sensational), O"Hare. While not creating an orgasm, and clearly lacking in depth (we will bring in one or two more loans?!) this is IMO far from a relegation team. Far from it. 

Edited by Hughes
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On 12/07/2018 at 10:39, Leveller said:

As an outsider, I think your last sentence is the key one. You’ve been paying so high, the question is not whether other clubs want eg Kodjia, but whether any will pick up their contracts. Why would Kodjia leave if Villa are obliged to pay him £40K (?) and nobody else will? That is your millstone.

Only option there is to lower the asking price to compensate for the wages. We could end up selling say 30 million worth of players for 20 million just to allow for their salaries. Great business that!

Edited by villarocker

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7 hours ago, Hughes said:

So, applying this and taking into consideration that BB and MJ seem.to be leaving AND assuming that all of JG, Chester and Kodija will be leaving we could still have a starting 11 of Steer / Bunn  - Elmo, Tuanzebe, Elphick, Hutton - Adomah, Hourihane, Lansbury, Whelan, Green - Davis/Hogan. Subs Bree, Taylor, RHM (IF he stays fit he could be sensational), O"Hare. While not creating an orgasm, and clearly lacking in depth (we will bring in one or two more loans?!) this is IMO far from a relegation team. Far from it. 

We could still have those to find a starting eleven from but I wouldn't be surprised if we sold one or more of Adomah, Lansbury, Hourihane, Green, Davis or Hogan. On the bright side we may well still have De Laet, Lyden, Gardner, Clark and Doyle-Hayes along with a few more promising youngsters to add to those players that you have mentioned.

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