The Rebuild

[omariqy]

Don't forget the money we save on wages also can be used towards FFP.

[hippo]

Just now, omariqy said:

Don't forget the money we save on wages also can be used towards FFP.

Yes - I think some people have calculated that getting the loan players off the books will save between £10-£15m  (Terry was on £3.6m alone) - but that still leaves a £25m hole. 

[omariqy]

16 minutes ago, hippo said:

Yes - I think some people have calculated that getting the loan players off the books will save between £10-£15m  (Terry was on £3.6m alone) - but that still leaves a £25m hole. 

I mean even if we got McCormack off the books for free we could potentially make profit for FFP purposes on his wages saved.

[villa82]

Gollini, Gil, Snodgrass anf Terry all back in the squad list at avfc.co.uk today, not there yesterday. A good start! No Tunazbe in the list.

[hippo]

7 minutes ago, villa82 said:

Gollini, Gil, Snodgrass anf Terry all back in the squad list at avfc.co.uk today, not there yesterday. A good start! No Tunazbe in the list.

Its started then - weve recruited some low paid admin staff ! 

[Nabby]

Our biggest issue is we have a lot of Championship level players and I just don't think there is going to be much money going round in the Championship this year to support us selling them at decent prices and just like back in the Lerner /MON days it seems like we have overpaid on wages which won't help us shift them either..

[jacketspuds]

1 minute ago, Nabby said:

Our biggest issue is we have a lot of Championship level players and I just don't think there is going to be much money going round in the Championship this year to support us selling them at decent prices and just like back in the Lerner /MON days it seems like we have overpaid on wages which won't help us shift them either..

We have but we will struggle to ship out some anyway just because of their age.

[VILLAMARV]

 

On 31/05/2018 at 15:00, omariqy said:

I know it is a lot of guesswork but I thought it would be interesting to see people's views on how we rebuild the squad. 

1. Who do we realistically sacrifice?

2. Who can we sell and who can't we sell?

3. Who would you buy and loan?

4. Which youth players would get the chance?

5. Ultimately what would be your squad going into the season? 

etc

To answer directly but in a different order just to be awkward like always

2. Who can we sell and who can't we sell?

We CAN sell anyone. From a footballing perspective it would be nice to keep hold of our best 3 players, namely Jack, Chester and Kodjia imo. The only one that will be crushing if he leaves is our Jack though. And getting Green a new contract would be nice. Grealish and Green in an ideal world. If we're being all idealist about it (and money were no concern) then you could add Hourihane, Adomah, Bjarnason, Elmo and Taylor to the list of who, from a team/squad building perspective it would be nice to keep around. Steer isn't a bad option assuming he's not on a massive wage. We'll revisit all this wishy-thinking as the devil drives though I'm sure later in the post!

4. Which youth players would get the chance?

Green and Bree should hopefully be much more involved although hardly stepping up from the youth team they are both young. Davis, RHM and O'Hare the obvious candidates. Doyle-Hayes as a 6th choice CM maybe, Suliman and Bedeau the other obvious names - Not seen owt of Bedeau and Suliman while well hyped hasn't excelled on loan anywhere. And Sarkic as 3rd choice keeper on the basis that even if he's as bad as Bunn then at least he isn't the wrong side of 30.

In a footballing sense you could put all of them in the not-wanting-to-actively-sell category imo. Nippers out on loan is never a bad thing if they are getting game time imo.

3. Who would you buy and loan?

Well there's a question and a half. Positionally at the back a GK, 2 or even 3 CB's and a LB. In midfield and enforcer DM type, a CM and a Winger and up top a nice big Centre Forward type.

I would say we need a focal point for the attack, i.e the CF to replace Grabban, a winger to replace Snodgrass, a LB to replace Hutton, a CB to replace Terry, a CB to replace Samba and a goalie to replace SJ. They could be the 5 loans hypothetically. The midfielders and additional centre back would be dependent on thinning the herd a little.....(which leads nicely into...)

1. Who do we realistically sacrifice?

If that £45m figure is going to be used as any sort of reference then we need to start with the obvious cull that's halfway through already. So to leave -

Agbonlahor, Terry, Samba, Hutton, Bunn - End of contracts

Snodgrass, SJ, Onomah, Grabban, Tuanzebe - End of loans

Gollini and Gil (subject to cheques clearing!) - already announced

Whether the Amavi money is counted against this year is pretty important in this equation. As is knowing what those contracts actually were. being £5k out on any estimations adds up over a 12 month and/or 3 year period.

Ok, after that lets start with the major 'Losses' from an FFP perspective. So obviously first up is Richards. We all know he aint going anywhere or his astronomical wage. the silver lining is that it's his last year.

McCormack, as I put in his thread, depends massively on how much we actually paid for him. Between £8m and £12m is quite the differential. Assuming there were add ons that haven't materialised yet and going off the lower figure he is probably 'worth' around £4m I would guestimate. If he were on £40k a week say then his wages would equate to about £2m a year. Hard to see any buyers wanting to invest at those sort of prices. Another loan may minimise the loss on him a bit though and there's no reason to think he wont go if the opportunity arises.

Tshibola. Oh my god what a mess. Another one causing a few noughts to rack up in that losses column while offering absolutely nothing to us at all. Gotta be needing around £3m + whatever a week on him. Never going to happen eh? Go on Kilmarnock, you know you want to....

All 3 of them I would say we need to cut our losses on. If any of them left for any amount of money at all it can only be a good thing from my perspective. May not help us now, but next year! no one is talking or thinking about next year! you think missing out on promotion this year was bad? Anyway it will be a good thing in the long run even at cut-price.

There are a whole load of players entering the last year of their contracts with us. Richards and Green I've already mentioned above. Steer is another one though. The rest are Whelan, Jedinak, Elphick, DeLaet, and Lyden.

DeLaet looks like he's off. And for 'profit' in the FFP sense of the word. The right nominal fees for any of the above would make it profitable and I wouldn't be against all of them leaving. Jedinak, Whelan and Elphick aren't getting any younger and all must be on a decent wage I think we could replace their contributions with younger, cheaper models myself. Maybe in reality Whelan sticks around for another year? Lyden would be all profit, which leads nicely on to that group headed up by Gardner with 2 or more years left to run. Gardner would be all profit also in the FFP world due to his rise from the youth team. Whatever we hypothetically can get for him and Lyden gets added up with their wages and saves us FFP money.

So on to Lansbury and Hogan. Are either of them going to come good? How high are their wages in relation to the rest of the squad. Is anyone interested? To be honest, Hogan is lucky not to make the big losses list at the start of this post imo. But, like McCormack what did we actually pay for him? What is his FFP 'value' to us now a year and a half into his deal? Of the two he is the most likely to see an upturn in fortunes on the pitch but only if we play to his strengths - and for me that means playing him with Jack floating about to feed him the balls he needs. I'd sell him in a heartbeat if anyone offered real money for him though. He hasn't shown enough for me.

Lansbury I think will be gone either way. We didn't pay a lot for him, so making 'profit' is entirely feasible to me. Cardiff were rumoured to be interested before they loaned Grujic for one. I think there'll be takers if we made him available. If his rumoured £35-40k a week is around the mark I'd say we should get rid as he hasn't really done much to warrant it when he has had the chance. BB has shown more to warrant sticking around imho.

Looking at that I think Richards, McCormack, Tshibola and Hogan are our major problems as far as transfers out go. I genuinely think we can move on Lyden, Gardner, DeLaet, Elphick and Lansbury and at a small 'profit' + wages with not much fuss. Their wages alone must be at least £100k a week combined, which is at least around £5m off that 'losses' column. Jedinak and Whelan? I dont think we'd have no takers lets put it that way. And shifting their prsumed 30-40k a week from the books is pushing £3-4m off the books in FFP land. The other 4 there probably sadly equate to £6-7m in wages to go in the losses column. That's how amazing it would be to find a buyer for them.

So (I knew I'd get to the realistically bit eventually @omariqy!) how do we make up the shortfall AND have a few pennies to bring in some fresh faces? Well assuming the hole left to fill is around the £20m mark after the 12 players that have left the books have left the books and that we could eat into that figure by more than say another £8-10m just cutting the chaff and without the need to dream of going into the realms of needing to find buyers and profit for Richards, Tshibola and McCormack and all that. We have no idea how close to or wide of the mark any of these guesstimates are. Shifting deadwood really does add up.

Scenario 1. Sell Jack. And what chaff we can. Grealish for upwards of £40m and keep the rest of the first team largely together under Bruce. Pay off the remaining FFP in one go. Invest the remainder in the squad. Give Green a new contract. Stuck with the deadwood and have to keep paying Richards and McCormack? can't sell Tshibola? Keep hoping Hogan will come good? no worries, we can do it all again next year. We go again. Get a load of cheap loans in and bulk out the squad with free transfers. Gamble on 3rd time lucky. Prepare for serious firesales of the rest if it goes wrong this time next year.

Scenario 2. Same but without Bruce.

Scenario 3. Sell Jack as well as cutting the chaff and not being too attached to the first teamers. Make serious money cashing in on our best player/s now AND shift as much deadwood as we can to afford to get rid of Bruce and find someone to properly rebuild this club. Hand them the prospect of a decent transfer kitty and yet operate within a plan for the potential drop in revenue next year if we miss out again. Wage structure at potential 2019-20 championship season levels. Be sustainable without the potential of PL millions clouding the issue. Or obviously parachute payments.

Scenario 4. Same but give the money to Bruce

Scenario 5. Sell anyone but Jack to make up the losses. Kodjia and Chester both have the ability to play in the PL imo. Neither is getting any younger. Both would take a more than reasonable fee to make it worth our while. Any lower end PL clubs should be enquiring about them if they have any sense imo. Hourihane has the sort of record that PL clubs will be seriously looking at. Unlike Chester and Kodjia we didn't pay a lot for him. Profit and a fairly sizeable one could be made quite easily on Hourihane imo. Green too unfortunately but that is where we are. that could be a route towards a lot of profit. A lot depends on the lad's intentions obviously but if Spurs try and turn his head again for around £8m - £10m we'd be foolish not to look at that seriously with a year left to run if he's stalling on signing. Hogan. Ok, ok I know I was getting real but we ourselves can see he'll score with the right service. His record at Brentford will interest a few parties I'm sure. Not getting Regular football and surely getting pushed down the pecking order if he stays. Again a lower end PL club could snap themselves up a bargain there. Bournemouth for instance. Elmo and BB - not that unfeasible that after the world cup someone else might fancy a bit of experience in their ranks, both signed for peanuts and easy to turn a profit on if there were interested parties imo. Steer is neither here nor there at this point - depends totally on what his wages are if he's going to play second fiddle again though. new contract now or we may as well cash in though imo. Sarkic can warm a bench. Taylor I can't see anyone wanting tbh. but lets face it better, cheaper, younger? certainly possible on paper. And that just leaves Albert. With the year he's had he wouldn't be hard to market for the right price. #keepjacknthat under Bruce.

Scenario 6. Same but without Bruce

Scenario 7. Sell anyone but Jack, keep the majority of the first team together and clear out the deadwood. Steer, Elphick, DeLaet, Jedinak, Whelan, Lyden, Gardner, Tshibola, Lansbury, Hogan, McCormack (Richards we have to suck up I'm afraid) all leave for cash money. Saving around £14 - 15m in wages alone. Re invest the money we make from sell to buy from there. Supplement that with one or two of the first teamers - Adomah and Hourihane lets say for argument's sake. BB, Taylor or Elmo for instance. Keep the core together. The idealists way out! The we can't really risk this plan getting anywhere near transfer deadline day way out that's for sure. And in keeping with my posts this would be under the guidance of Bruce.....

Scenario 8. .....or not under Bruce as you like.

5. Ultimately what would be your squad going into the season? 

I'd like to see

New GK - Steer - Sarkic (Out - SJ + Bunn)

Elmohamady - Bree (Out - Hutton + DeLaet)

New LB - Taylor

Chester - New CB - New CB - Suliman/Bedeau (Out - Terry, Samba, Elphick, Richards, Tuanzebe)

New DM - New DM (Out - Jedinak, Whelan, Lyden)

Grealish - Bjarnason - New CM - Doyle-Hayes (Out - Hourihane, Lansbury, Gardner, Tshibola, Onomah

Adomah - Green - O'Hare - New Winger type (Out - Snodgrass)

Kodjia - New ST - Davis - RHM (Out - Agbonlahor, Grabban, Hogan, McCormack)

Dead wood all gone. Use Hogan, Lansbury and Hourihane to free up some cash before we start selling the crown jewels just yet. New CB with some aerial prowess and a DM that has some mobility, a big man up top and a new keeper are going to be key for us whatever happens this summer. Basically a new spine to replace SJ / Terry / Jedinak / Grabban. Maybe a new striker up top pushes Kodjia wide and creates less need for new width. Replacement for Hourihane would be pretty important in this plan. The rest could be squad loans and the like tbh.

Anyway @omariqy I hope you meant write an essay for me to read when you get home coz that's what you got!

The not selling Jack route really isn't easy is it. So much depends on McCormack, Tshibola, Richards and Hogan imo. We will see.

Edited June 1, 2018 by VILLAMARV
tidying up a bit

[Rob182]

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTL;DR

[daggy_333]

Any idea when we are announcing our retained/released list?

[AvfcRigo82]

2 hours ago, daggy_333 said:

Any idea when we are announcing our retained/released list?

Fairly soon I would think.

[pintpotvilla]

Clutching at straws I may be but does anybody agree due to our extended stay in the Championship it will at least give some playing time to our U23 kids which they certainly would not have got in the Prem. We will now find out if they are good enough and if 2 or 3 of them are, when we do go up we will be financally better off. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise ( good disguise though).

[Daweii]

11 minutes ago, pintpotvilla said:

Clutching at straws I may be but does anybody agree due to our extended stay in the Championship it will at least give some playing time to our U23 kids which they certainly would not have got in the Prem. We will now find out if they are good enough and if 2 or 3 of them are, when we do go up we will be financally better off. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise ( good disguise though).

It's only a blessing provided we do it. We've had two seasons in this league and despite having a chance to utilise the youth more we signed talent to push them down. Maybe this season will be different given our finances, but again it seems that we can get in 5-6 loans if needed so the likelihood of Bruce looking at the youth again are slim, I hope to be wrong though. 

[R1chuk]

On 01/06/2018 at 18:21, VILLAMARV said:

 

To answer directly but in a different order just to be awkward like always

2. Who can we sell and who can't we sell?

We CAN sell anyone. From a footballing perspective it would be nice to keep hold of our best 3 players, namely Jack, Chester and Kodjia imo. The only one that will be crushing if he leaves is our Jack though. And getting Green a new contract would be nice. Grealish and Green in an ideal world. If we're being all idealist about it (and money were no concern) then you could add Hourihane, Adomah, Bjarnason, Elmo and Taylor to the list of who, from a team/squad building perspective it would be nice to keep around. Steer isn't a bad option assuming he's not on a massive wage. We'll revisit all this wishy-thinking as the devil drives though I'm sure later in the post!

4. Which youth players would get the chance?

Green and Bree should hopefully be much more involved although hardly stepping up from the youth team they are both young. Davis, RHM and O'Hare the obvious candidates. Doyle-Hayes as a 6th choice CM maybe, Suliman and Bedeau the other obvious names - Not seen owt of Bedeau and Suliman while well hyped hasn't excelled on loan anywhere. And Sarkic as 3rd choice keeper on the basis that even if he's as bad as Bunn then at least he isn't the wrong side of 30.

In a footballing sense you could put all of them in the not-wanting-to-actively-sell category imo. Nippers out on loan is never a bad thing if they are getting game time imo.

3. Who would you buy and loan?

Well there's a question and a half. Positionally at the back a GK, 2 or even 3 CB's and a LB. In midfield and enforcer DM type, a CM and a Winger and up top a nice big Centre Forward type.

I would say we need a focal point for the attack, i.e the CF to replace Grabban, a winger to replace Snodgrass, a LB to replace Hutton, a CB to replace Terry, a CB to replace Samba and a goalie to replace SJ. They could be the 5 loans hypothetically. The midfielders and additional centre back would be dependent on thinning the herd a little.....(which leads nicely into...)

1. Who do we realistically sacrifice?

If that £45m figure is going to be used as any sort of reference then we need to start with the obvious cull that's halfway through already. So to leave -

Agbonlahor, Terry, Samba, Hutton, Bunn - End of contracts

Snodgrass, SJ, Onomah, Grabban, Tuanzebe - End of loans

Gollini and Gil (subject to cheques clearing!) - already announced

Whether the Amavi money is counted against this year is pretty important in this equation. As is knowing what those contracts actually were. being £5k out on any estimations adds up over a 12 month and/or 3 year period.

Ok, after that lets start with the major 'Losses' from an FFP perspective. So obviously first up is Richards. We all know he aint going anywhere or his astronomical wage. the silver lining is that it's his last year.

McCormack, as I put in his thread, depends massively on how much we actually paid for him. Between £8m and £12m is quite the differential. Assuming there were add ons that haven't materialised yet and going off the lower figure he is probably 'worth' around £4m I would guestimate. If he were on £40k a week say then his wages would equate to about £2m a year. Hard to see any buyers wanting to invest at those sort of prices. Another loan may minimise the loss on him a bit though and there's no reason to think he wont go if the opportunity arises.

Tshibola. Oh my god what a mess. Another one causing a few noughts to rack up in that losses column while offering absolutely nothing to us at all. Gotta be needing around £3m + whatever a week on him. Never going to happen eh? Go on Kilmarnock, you know you want to....

All 3 of them I would say we need to cut our losses on. If any of them left for any amount of money at all it can only be a good thing from my perspective. May not help us now, but next year! no one is talking or thinking about next year! you think missing out on promotion this year was bad? Anyway it will be a good thing in the long run even at cut-price.

There are a whole load of players entering the last year of their contracts with us. Richards and Green I've already mentioned above. Steer is another one though. The rest are Whelan, Jedinak, Elphick, DeLaet, and Lyden.

DeLaet looks like he's off. And for 'profit' in the FFP sense of the word. The right nominal fees for any of the above would make it profitable and I wouldn't be against all of them leaving. Jedinak, Whelan and Elphick aren't getting any younger and all must be on a decent wage I think we could replace their contributions with younger, cheaper models myself. Maybe in reality Whelan sticks around for another year? Lyden would be all profit, which leads nicely on to that group headed up by Gardner with 2 or more years left to run. Gardner would be all profit also in the FFP world due to his rise from the youth team. Whatever we hypothetically can get for him and Lyden gets added up with their wages and saves us FFP money.

So on to Lansbury and Hogan. Are either of them going to come good? How high are their wages in relation to the rest of the squad. Is anyone interested? To be honest, Hogan is lucky not to make the big losses list at the start of this post imo. But, like McCormack what did we actually pay for him? What is his FFP 'value' to us now a year and a half into his deal? Of the two he is the most likely to see an upturn in fortunes on the pitch but only if we play to his strengths - and for me that means playing him with Jack floating about to feed him the balls he needs. I'd sell him in a heartbeat if anyone offered real money for him though. He hasn't shown enough for me.

Lansbury I think will be gone either way. We didn't pay a lot for him, so making 'profit' is entirely feasible to me. Cardiff were rumoured to be interested before they loaned Grujic for one. I think there'll be takers if we made him available. If his rumoured £35-40k a week is around the mark I'd say we should get rid as he hasn't really done much to warrant it when he has had the chance. BB has shown more to warrant sticking around imho.

Looking at that I think Richards, McCormack, Tshibola and Hogan are our major problems as far as transfers out go. I genuinely think we can move on Lyden, Gardner, DeLaet, Elphick and Lansbury and at a small 'profit' + wages with not much fuss. Their wages alone must be at least £100k a week combined, which is at least around £5m off that 'losses' column. Jedinak and Whelan? I dont think we'd have no takers lets put it that way. And shifting their prsumed 30-40k a week from the books is pushing £3-4m off the books in FFP land. The other 4 there probably sadly equate to £6-7m in wages to go in the losses column. That's how amazing it would be to find a buyer for them.

So (I knew I'd get to the realistically bit eventually @omariqy!) how do we make up the shortfall AND have a few pennies to bring in some fresh faces? Well assuming the hole left to fill is around the £20m mark after the 12 players that have left the books have left the books and that we could eat into that figure by more than say another £8-10m just cutting the chaff and without the need to dream of going into the realms of needing to find buyers and profit for Richards, Tshibola and McCormack and all that. We have no idea how close to or wide of the mark any of these guesstimates are. Shifting deadwood really does add up.

Scenario 1. Sell Jack. And what chaff we can. Grealish for upwards of £40m and keep the rest of the first team largely together under Bruce. Pay off the remaining FFP in one go. Invest the remainder in the squad. Give Green a new contract. Stuck with the deadwood and have to keep paying Richards and McCormack? can't sell Tshibola? Keep hoping Hogan will come good? no worries, we can do it all again next year. We go again. Get a load of cheap loans in and bulk out the squad with free transfers. Gamble on 3rd time lucky. Prepare for serious firesales of the rest if it goes wrong this time next year.

Scenario 2. Same but without Bruce.

Scenario 3. Sell Jack as well as cutting the chaff and not being too attached to the first teamers. Make serious money cashing in on our best player/s now AND shift as much deadwood as we can to afford to get rid of Bruce and find someone to properly rebuild this club. Hand them the prospect of a decent transfer kitty and yet operate within a plan for the potential drop in revenue next year if we miss out again. Wage structure at potential 2019-20 championship season levels. Be sustainable without the potential of PL millions clouding the issue. Or obviously parachute payments.

Scenario 4. Same but give the money to Bruce

Scenario 5. Sell anyone but Jack to make up the losses. Kodjia and Chester both have the ability to play in the PL imo. Neither is getting any younger. Both would take a more than reasonable fee to make it worth our while. Any lower end PL clubs should be enquiring about them if they have any sense imo. Hourihane has the sort of record that PL clubs will be seriously looking at. Unlike Chester and Kodjia we didn't pay a lot for him. Profit and a fairly sizeable one could be made quite easily on Hourihane imo. Green too unfortunately but that is where we are. that could be a route towards a lot of profit. A lot depends on the lad's intentions obviously but if Spurs try and turn his head again for around £8m - £10m we'd be foolish not to look at that seriously with a year left to run if he's stalling on signing. Hogan. Ok, ok I know I was getting real but we ourselves can see he'll score with the right service. His record at Brentford will interest a few parties I'm sure. Not getting Regular football and surely getting pushed down the pecking order if he stays. Again a lower end PL club could snap themselves up a bargain there. Bournemouth for instance. Elmo and BB - not that unfeasible that after the world cup someone else might fancy a bit of experience in their ranks, both signed for peanuts and easy to turn a profit on if there were interested parties imo. Steer is neither here nor there at this point - depends totally on what his wages are if he's going to play second fiddle again though. new contract now or we may as well cash in though imo. Sarkic can warm a bench. Taylor I can't see anyone wanting tbh. but lets face it better, cheaper, younger? certainly possible on paper. And that just leaves Albert. With the year he's had he wouldn't be hard to market for the right price. #keepjacknthat under Bruce.

Scenario 6. Same but without Bruce

Scenario 7. Sell anyone but Jack, keep the majority of the first team together and clear out the deadwood. Steer, Elphick, DeLaet, Jedinak, Whelan, Lyden, Gardner, Tshibola, Lansbury, Hogan, McCormack (Richards we have to suck up I'm afraid) all leave for cash money. Saving around £14 - 15m in wages alone. Re invest the money we make from sell to buy from there. Supplement that with one or two of the first teamers - Adomah and Hourihane lets say for argument's sake. BB, Taylor or Elmo for instance. Keep the core together. The idealists way out! The we can't really risk this plan getting anywhere near transfer deadline day way out that's for sure. And in keeping with my posts this would be under the guidance of Bruce.....

Scenario 8. .....or not under Bruce as you like.

5. Ultimately what would be your squad going into the season? 

I'd like to see

New GK - Steer - Sarkic (Out - SJ + Bunn)

Elmohamady - Bree (Out - Hutton + DeLaet)

New LB - Taylor

Chester - New CB - New CB - Suliman/Bedeau (Out - Terry, Samba, Elphick, Richards, Tuanzebe)

New DM - New DM (Out - Jedinak, Whelan, Lyden)

Grealish - Bjarnason - New CM - Doyle-Hayes (Out - Hourihane, Lansbury, Gardner, Tshibola, Onomah

Adomah - Green - O'Hare - New Winger type (Out - Snodgrass)

Kodjia - New ST - Davis - RHM (Out - Agbonlahor, Grabban, Hogan, McCormack)

Dead wood all gone. Use Hogan, Lansbury and Hourihane to free up some cash before we start selling the crown jewels just yet. New CB with some aerial prowess and a DM that has some mobility, a big man up top and a new keeper are going to be key for us whatever happens this summer. Basically a new spine to replace SJ / Terry / Jedinak / Grabban. Maybe a new striker up top pushes Kodjia wide and creates less need for new width. Replacement for Hourihane would be pretty important in this plan. The rest could be squad loans and the like tbh.

Anyway @omariqy I hope you meant write an essay for me to read when you get home coz that's what you got!

The not selling Jack route really isn't easy is it. So much depends on McCormack, Tshibola, Richards and Hogan imo. We will see.

Such a long post !

[jackbauer24]

Don't get me wrong, I think this is the worst state Villa have been in for thirty years, but actually I don't think the rebuild is that hard - the style of play is more relevant. We could get out this division with minimal investment.

Keeping it simple we need to replace the following players from the FIRST team. Subs will have to be made up of more youth.

Johnstone replaced by Steer

Terry replaced by a younger (faster) CB

Snodgrass replaced by a fit Green

Grabban replaced by Kodjia/a loan striker

Grealish is the only question mark.

But if we're a lot luckier with injuries then I can't see why we couldn't challenge again. BUT it needs a lot more adventurous approach to games. The problem will be if we lose even more players.

I think the Grealish thing is interesting but actually it was Adomah's form that had a greater impact on our results. Grealish makes us better but we're not a one man team either.

All that's needed is a CB with pace so we don't have to play Whelen or Jedinak and actually be playing with five at the back. Put in someone like Thor who can add to the attack occasionally. We were far too defensive in 90% of the games last season.

I think we can quite easily afford to lose the loanees, cut some deadwood and still challenge. I'm just not sure Bruce can do it. We just need a CB. Although I've wondered if Hutton could play CB but that's for another day;

Steer

Elmo Chester CB Hutton

Adomah Thor Hourihane Green

Grealish

Kodjia

That team would be there...or thereabouts... 

I think Steer could be as close to Johnstone as makes no difference. Terry wasn't all that on the pitch anyway. Snodgrass was fantastic but Green has to be thinking now is his time. Grabban was solid but isolated, I think Kodjia might be better as the lone striker we seem to play. Other loanees contributed minimally. 

I've never felt as low about Villa as I currently do but there is a glimmer of light if you look closely enough.

[Kiwivillan]

Thor is not a DM. Not physical enough. Seen him track players all the way to the box and not put in a tackle

[mikeyp102]

10 hours ago, jackbauer24 said:

Don't get me wrong, I think this is the worst state Villa have been in for thirty years, but actually I don't think the rebuild is that hard - the style of play is more relevant. We could get out this division with minimal investment.

Keeping it simple we need to replace the following players from the FIRST team. Subs will have to be made up of more youth.

Johnstone replaced by Steer

Terry replaced by a younger (faster) CB

Snodgrass replaced by a fit Green

Grabban replaced by Kodjia/a loan striker

Grealish is the only question mark.

But if we're a lot luckier with injuries then I can't see why we couldn't challenge again. BUT it needs a lot more adventurous approach to games. The problem will be if we lose even more players.

I think the Grealish thing is interesting but actually it was Adomah's form that had a greater impact on our results. Grealish makes us better but we're not a one man team either.

All that's needed is a CB with pace so we don't have to play Whelen or Jedinak and actually be playing with five at the back. Put in someone like Thor who can add to the attack occasionally. We were far too defensive in 90% of the games last season.

I think we can quite easily afford to lose the loanees, cut some deadwood and still challenge. I'm just not sure Bruce can do it. We just need a CB. Although I've wondered if Hutton could play CB but that's for another day;

Steer

Elmo Chester CB Hutton

Adomah Thor Hourihane Green

Grealish

Kodjia

That team would be there...or thereabouts... 

I think Steer could be as close to Johnstone as makes no difference. Terry wasn't all that on the pitch anyway. Snodgrass was fantastic but Green has to be thinking now is his time. Grabban was solid but isolated, I think Kodjia might be better as the lone striker we seem to play. Other loanees contributed minimally. 

I've never felt as low about Villa as I currently do but there is a glimmer of light if you look closely enough.

I agree we don’t need that much.

A good CB, and possibly a lb. 

Even changing from 4 at back we have a decent team. It’s just getting rid of a few high earners. Midfield in particular is very flooded.

Personally, and I’m sure some would laugh but I’d go:

343

                    steer

          Bree, new cb, Chester

Elmo Bjarnasson Hourihane Clarke

                    Jack

                Hogan Kodj 

Take the game to the opposition with that team and we would be very hard to beat.

We would still have backbup options of Jedi (cb/dm), Whelan, Lansbury, Doyle hayes (go out on loan maybe), Lyden all cm, Green and Adomah on the wings and Hepburn murphy and Davis upfront, more than enough to change formations if needed. Throw in the likes of Suliman and bedeau as back up cbs (obviously couldn’t rely on them all season) and O’Hare, MCKirdy as am.

That squad, however played is still miles better than most in this league.

[weedman]

On 01/06/2018 at 08:34, hippo said:

Jedi had a mare in his first game at CB against sheff wed. However he played a few other games there towards the end of the season and did ok. Don't see many options at CB. Terry, Samba, Elphick all look set to depart. Don't think we have any starlets in the position either. 

I was thinking this, apart from that first game he's been solid at CB and I think would be good with Chester (Chester for the composure and Jedi for anything above shoulder height. Pace is an issue but he's replacing Terry, hardly Usain Bolt

[lexicon]

I'd look to build a team with a spine of Chester, Grealish and Kodjia. Try to bring through more youth players, giving Green and Bree starting XI status and utilising O'Hare, Doyle-Hayes, Davis and RHM as necessary. GK and CB vital signings. 

[daggy_333]

13 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I'd look to build a team with a spine of Chester, Grealish and Kodjia. Try to bring through more youth players, giving Green and Bree starting XI status and utilising O'Hare, Doyle-Hayes, Davis and RHM as necessary. GK and CB vital signings. 

If money is tight then maybe Steer should be utilised? I've never been completely sure on him but maybe now is time to give him a run in the first team?