Israel, Palestine and Iran

[Panto_Villan]

8 minutes ago, Thug said:

Ok, this is what I meant, but worded it (very) poorly, 

I don’t think they actively want them dead, but they don’t seem to be prioritising getting them released. The net result being that they will likely perish. 
 

Fair enough. Then I agree with you on that.

[NurembergVillan]

52 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said:

It really reminds me of white supremacist forums where they dog whistle 24/7 and pretend that no one is saying what they are actually saying. wink wink.

You know that using VillaTalk is optional, right?

[VILLAMARV]

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

Counting the kids

Graphic of each year since 2000

 

properly grim that

[VILLAMARV]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Your posts in this topic are as unbalanced and biased as the other fellas, Both as bad as each other.

Neither of you come across as discussing anything like in good faith. You’ve both made posts that miss out vital points or are just demonstrably untrue

ai bots

[YLN]

I think indiscriminate bombing of civilians is bad. I think Israel have stated their aims pretty clearly and I believe them. Their actions have supported what they said they will do. I think that the Palestinians have been oppressed by Israel for a long time, but i could never justify what Hamas did on the 7th. 

I had Israeli neighbours who were very pleasant and generous. Their Instagram feed is difficult to watch as it conflicts so acutely with my understanding of what is happening. Growing up with Hamas as your neighbours must have been terrifying and now that they've committed this atrocity must just make every Israeli completely apoplectic and wanting vengeance in the form of total annihilation, raining fire from above. 

The dehumanisation of the civilian population in Palestine is objectively wrong and some of the pro collective punishment videos I've seen online have been shocking, but understandable. It is necessary to dehumanise a group of people who you are also advocating for indiscriminate bombing of. They must be dehumanised or you are inhuman to support it, which you do, due to anger and fear.

I am very ignorant about it all, but I know bombing and starving civilians is wrong. In the same way what Hamas did was wrong. In the same way what Daenaerys did at the end of GOT was wrong. 

[VILLAMARV]

7 hours ago, Tumblerseven said:

I would like to do more balanced posts but i cant

[TheAuthority]

18 hours ago, Chindie said:

They manage to blow up their facilities and kill their staff with regularity.

Some might say they're already teaching them a lesson.

What? Are you suggesting that Israel acts with impunity, kills who it wants, and thumbs it's nose at international law?

You're an antisemite Sir and I will collect my £200

[VILLAMARV]

15 hours ago, Jareth said:

The organisers of that festival actually - what was the risk assessment?

I can't speak for Israeli H&S Laws, but over here I don't think there'd be a major incident plan that could deal with marauding gunmen armed to the teeth. as @magnkarl said, victim shaming is never a good look. Because it's a terrible take on the situation.

[VILLAMARV]

I bumped into an old acqaintance last week, someone that was around 30 odd years ago type of acquaintance. We were chatting and he was telling me he's been out in Israel for a few years. One of the things he got involved with was helping out at a festival over there. One that was held at a now world famous site. Inevitably, in the small world of festival organising in Israel he had a friend who was there with his kids. His wife had informed this guy that they had found the bodies of her husband and her three sons who were all in attendance. All they know is that there were 44 bullets in them. It's hard to imagine this sort of sick reality but there we are. It's disgusting and despicable and all the other awful adjectives that apply.

The blame for that lies firmly at the feet of the disgraceful, murderous Hamas terrorists in my opinion.

I wasn't going to share that story publically, but it's what triggerred my response Jareth and it will at least be there to ward off any more of this justification nonsense.

[VILLAMARV]

29 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

I have mainly just read and mostly stayed out of this thread. However, I do have one burning question which, I don't believe any else has asked thus far. And it's this,

@Tumblerseven How much do the IDF/& or Mossad pay you to come and debate this shit? Seriously, are you hourly? per post? Or salaried? This is Capitalism after all  I mean, I'm a hired hand. Work from home, decent salary, leave your love for humanity at the door etc.

My follow-up question is, why the F*** are you posting the sub-forum of a football team that just happens to be the greatest in the world. You obviously aren't a fan or interested in the team. Just trying to convince the what, 20 people that read this stuff? Is the IDF/Mossad just that ubiquitous? (Here's the link if you need to look that up as an ESL.)

I'm also aware this now puts me on a list. (I turned my VPN before I posted this but it's probably not that hard to find me.)

Seriously, how many of you are there online? The budget must be enormous? What are the facilities like? Is it like Google where you get free lunch and are able to skateboard around to the every pool table. Or are you really serious and military-like with a shaved head and a cheese sandwich, discussing ways to convince the British that Israel is completely justified with it's approach.

Not being facetious, just here to learn.

if true they should ask for their money back.  

[VILLAMARV]

Football forums are surely ripe for seeding in the modern age. High numbers, long term interaction and so on. But we digress.

 

 

 

Maybe.

[TheAuthority]

11 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

I bumped into an old acqaintance last week, someone that was around 30 odd years ago type of acquaintance. We were chatting and he was telling me he's been out in Israel for a few years. One of the things he got involved with was helping out at a festival over there. One that was held at a now world famous site. Inevitably, in the small world of festival organising in Israel he had a friend who was there with his kids. His wife had informed this guy that they had found the bodies of her husband and her three sons who were all in attendance. All they know is that there were 44 bullets in them. It's hard to imagine this sort of sick reality but there we are. It's disgusting and despicable and all the other awful adjectives that apply.

The blame for that lies firmly at the feet of the disgraceful, murderous Hamas terrorists in my opinion.

I wasn't going to share that story publically, but it's what triggerred my response Jareth and it will at least be there to ward off any more of this justification nonsense.

As a father, reading that families were shot down is beyond my comprehension. It's horrifying and traumatizing. **** all people that could engage in even the thoughts of these actions, let alone physically be part of it.

[Tumblerseven]

52 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

I have mainly just read and mostly stayed out of this thread. However, I do have one burning question which, I don't believe any else has asked thus far. And it's this,

@Tumblerseven How much do the IDF/& or Mossad pay you to come and debate this shit? Seriously, are you hourly? per post? Or salaried? This is Capitalism after all  I mean, I'm a hired hand. Work from home, decent salary, leave your love for humanity at the door etc.

My follow-up question is, why the F*** are you posting the sub-forum of a football team that just happens to be the greatest in the world. You obviously aren't a fan or interested in the team. Just trying to convince the what, 20 people that read this stuff? Is the IDF/Mossad just that ubiquitous? (Here's the link if you need to look that up as an ESL.)

I'm also aware this now puts me on a list. (I turned my VPN before I posted this but it's probably not that hard to find me.)

Seriously, how many of you are there online? The budget must be enormous? What are the facilities like? Is it like Google where you get free lunch and are able to skateboard around to the every pool table. Or are you really serious and military-like with a shaved head and a cheese sandwich, discussing ways to convince the British that Israel is completely justified with it's approach.

Not being facetious, just here to learn.

Uh oh Jewish conspiracy theories here we go. Whats next? Soros? jews control media? world economic forum? go ahead dont be shy.

Your follow up question trying to paint me as outsider who is not interested in the team here read this. Othering is the process of portraying someone as fundamentally different from or inferior to the group they belong to. It can involve emphasizing perceived differences in race, ethnicity, nationality, beliefs, or other factors to create a sense of "us" versus "them." thats exactly what you just did using villa i think thats disgusting. The point of this tactic to alienate person from the group so everyone can gang up and push that person out . nice try not gonna work.

Yes yes my first language is not English you want to shame me for that seriously go ahead? i think im trying my best and i think my statements are pretty clear and understandable.

It puts you on the list?  yah dude you are "very important". 

I think your comment is like actually disgusting shame on you.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Tumblerseven

[VILLAMARV]

quickest response of the lot. At least you got an answer to your direct questons though.

[Tumblerseven]

32 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

 but it's what triggerred my response Jareth and it will at least be there to ward off any more of this justification nonsense.

Whoa same i got triggered too good job calling that stuff out. 

[VILLAMARV]

1 minute ago, Tumblerseven said:

Whoa same i got triggered too good job calling that stuff out. 

Cool.

[Ghost]

I've been lurking on this thread for a while, reading all the various thoughts and opinions.

For the knowledgeable posters, can I ask what Iran has to do with any of this? What's their goal and why are they so keen on destabilising the region?

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said:

I can't speak for Israeli H&S Laws, but over here I don't think there'd be a major incident plan that could deal with marauding gunmen armed to the teeth. as @magnkarl said, victim shaming is never a good look. Because it's a terrible take on the situation.

That misrepresents what I said. My take was that the organisers were given a green light and no threat was detected from the geography of the area. We have seen domestic drones dropping grenades on Russians for over a year - that is an obvious reason for event planners not to hold an event so close to the border, in itself. You can guarantee families of victims are exploring legal redress against the organisers right now. I’m not blaming any victim - I’m blaming an establishment, from army down to security planning for events, for assuming Gaza to be a problem of the past and being asleep at the wheel. Once again - not blaming dead people. 

[chrisp65]

31 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I've been lurking on this thread for a while, reading all the various thoughts and opinions.

For the knowledgeable posters, can I ask what Iran has to do with any of this? What's their goal and why are they so keen on destabilising the region?

A very quick and clumsy answer:

Hamas bankrolls lots of groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah and has ‘helped’ the likes of Syria and Russia. Very much one of the black hat / axis of evil type players.

Israel was looking like it was making progress talking to several Arab states the latest being Saudi Arabia. If that builds, it diminishes Iran’s influence.

Iran probably worked out that if they could arrange something horrendous, Israel would react in a vengeful scorched earth way and Arab states would find it very difficult to continue progressing towards normalised relations.

If that scenario is accurate, Iran has played a blinder, even distracting the US from Ukraine, thus helping Russia.

Short term, this could be everything the black hats wanted it to be. 

[Thug]

28 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I've been lurking on this thread for a while, reading all the various thoughts and opinions.

For the knowledgeable posters, can I ask what Iran has to do with any of this? What's their goal and why are they so keen on destabilising the region?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/India-Middle_East-Europe_Economic_Corridor
 

Quote

The India-Middle East-Europe Economic Corridor(IMEEC) is a planned economic corridor that aims to bolster economic development by fostering connectivity and economic integration between Asia, the Persian Gulf and Europe.^[1][2] The corridor is proposed from India to Europe through the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Israel and Greece.^[3]

This will empower the nations the corridor runs through,  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Saudi_Arabia_relations
 

Quote

During the main phase of the Arab–Israeli conflict, Saudi Arabia supported the Arab League against Israel. Likewise, the official Saudi policy towards the Israeli–Palestinian conflict has been supportive of the Palestinian Arabs. However, reports have surfaced in recent years indicating extensive behind-the-scenes cooperation in the areas of diplomacy, intelligence, and security. Warming relations between the two sides are a direct result of the unofficial Arab–Israeli alliance, which came to fruition in light of the Iran–Israel proxy conflict and the Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict.^[2][3]At the same time, the Saudi relationship with the Palestinian National Authority has been deteriorating.^[4]

Iran does not see eye to eye with Israel, or Saudi Arabia.  Watching them come close together would be a very, very big blow to them.

The popular theory is that by sponsoring the attack by Hamas, they knew that Israel would retaliate - basically making Saudi’s position very uncomfortable and jeopardising the plans.

Remember, Iran pretty much sacrificed $6bn of their assets in the US which had literally only recently been unfrozen.

 

The $6bn will be nothing compared to the comparative wealth of the nations that are and aren’t in this corridor.

Theories are that Turkey are equally pissed at being left out of this corridor.