General Election 2017

[Risso]

31 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

With all this talk of the press, has anybody noticed what has happened at the Independent? 

I'd long assumed that the press alignment was something like: 

Mirror - Labour

Guardian and Independent - tepid Blairite Labour

The rest - Tories

But the Indy was vehemently pro-Corbyn throughout the campaign. And even more weirdly, in matters non-political they seemed to have dived headlong into Daily Mail style shallow trivial shite - celebs, fashion, dieting, mild scandals, etc. 

It's almost like a strange attempt to capture the Mail's demographic and turn it socialist. 

Spot on Mike.  The website is appalling, and is in the same territory as the Daily Mail, albeit from the polar opposite political position.

[bickster]

There's no taste for another election said one Tory MP (I forget who)

Maybe they saw the data from Lord Ashcroft's final poll of the campaign. It wasn't just the pesky youth vote that did it

 

 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

57 minutes ago, bickster said:

I'm fairly sure even if they did take their seats they'd only turn up on a vote of no confidence in the Government or to vote down any Brexit type stuff

Or maybe they take there own folding camp site type seats and sit just inside the door or sit with everyone else but only look at the ceiling,  something of that ilk anyway.  They have calmed down considerably to be fair.

[PauloBarnesi]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

With all this talk of the press, has anybody noticed what has happened at the Independent? 

I'd long assumed that the press alignment was something like: 

Mirror - Labour

Guardian and Independent - tepid Blairite Labour

The rest - Tories

But the Indy was vehemently pro-Corbyn throughout the campaign. And even more weirdly, in matters non-political they seemed to have dived headlong into Daily Mail style shallow trivial shite - celebs, fashion, dieting, mild scandals, etc. 

It's almost like a strange attempt to capture the Mail's demographic and turn it socialist. 

The Economist backed the Lib Dems iirc

Interesting fact Daily Mirror was set up by the owner of the Daily Mail. 

 

[chrisp65]

Quote

Members of both the House of Commons and the House of Lords are required to take an oath of allegiance to the Crown before they take their seats in Parliament.

Until the oath or affirmation is taken, an MP may not receive a salary, take their seat, speak in debates or vote. 

Parliament

 

You can swear an oath, or you can take a solemn affirmation depending on whether you have strong views on god. But either way, you have to publicly give your loyal allegiance to the Queen.

 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

With all this talk of the press, has anybody noticed what has happened at the Independent? 

I'd long assumed that the press alignment was something like: 

Mirror - Labour

Guardian and Independent - tepid Blairite Labour

The rest - Tories

But the Indy was vehemently pro-Corbyn throughout the campaign. And even more weirdly, in matters non-political they seemed to have dived headlong into Daily Mail style shallow trivial shite - celebs, fashion, dieting, mild scandals, etc. 

It's almost like a strange attempt to capture the Mail's demographic and turn it socialist. 

I pretty much read the indie from when it started to when it stopped being printed. It was genuinely independent and had a fairly Liberal outlook, it was never blairite. Since it's been on tinterwebs only, it's more like you say, more left wing and with quite a bit of click bait stuff, though the paid version has none of that crap. I guess the crap on the free version is to cover the costs. The i paper has quite a bit of the indie content in it and seems politically neutral in terms of parties, it certainly doesn't try to scare the bejesus out of people.

[darrenm]

So if Tories with DUP form a government, they have a majority of 2?

So all it would take to stop the deal happening would be for 2 Tory MPs to resign? 

Edited June 12, 2017 by darrenm

[mjmooney]

23 minutes ago, blandy said:

I pretty much read the indie from when it started to when it stopped being printed. It was genuinely independent and had a fairly Liberal outlook, it was never blairite. Since it's been on tinterwebs only, it's more like you say, more left wing and with quite a bit of click bait stuff, though the paid version has none of that crap. I guess the crap on the free version is to cover the costs. The i paper has quite a bit of the indie content in it and seems politically neutral in terms of parties, it certainly doesn't try to scare the bejesus out of people.

Ah, that makes sense. I've only seen the free version. But I guess that's what most people see. Definitely an interesting phenomenon IMO. 

[mjmooney]

4 minutes ago, darrenm said:

So if Tories with DUP form a government, they have a majority of 2?

So all it would take to stop the deal happening would be for 2 Tory MPs to resign? 

That's why I made the point about crossing the floor a few pages back. It's happened before, and there must be a few on the left of the Tory party who are unhappy with the way things are going. 

[snowychap]

9 minutes ago, darrenm said:

So if Tories with DUP form a government, they have a majority of 2?

So all it would take to stop the deal happening would be for 2 Tory MPs to resign? 

An effective majority of 14, I think, before dupty speakers are sworn in.

Edit: I meant deputy.

Edited June 12, 2017 by snowychap

[bickster]

If we're talking Brexit Deal then Ken Clarke reduces it instantly

[darrenm]

8 minutes ago, snowychap said:

An effective majority of 14, I think, before dupty speakers are sworn in.

Edit: I meant deputy.

So it would need quite a few. Probably too many. Depends on how strongly some feel about destabilising NI and getting into bed with Westboro Baptist church, NI.

[snowychap]

Just now, darrenm said:

So it would need quite a few. Probably too many. Depends on how strongly some feel about destabilising NI and getting into bed with Westboro Baptist church, NI.

Like Bicks suggested, it would depend on the vote, I guess.

Also factor in someone being Tom and Dick, whether any partnering arrangments were in place, someone being too pissed in the bar to be able to make it to the lobby in time, &c.

[darrenm]

14 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

That's why I made the point about crossing the floor a few pages back. It's happened before, and there must be a few on the left of the Tory party who are unhappy with the way things are going. 

Unhappy enough to ditch their own party though? It seems a forlorn hope that any politician would have enough of a conscience.

Theoretically an MP could resign, trigger a by-election, stand as the other party candidate and get voted back in, as kind of a government six-pointer?

[MakemineVanilla]

2 hours ago, mjmooney said:

With all this talk of the press, has anybody noticed what has happened at the Independent? 

I'd long assumed that the press alignment was something like: 

Mirror - Labour

Guardian and Independent - tepid Blairite Labour

The rest - Tories

But the Indy was vehemently pro-Corbyn throughout the campaign. And even more weirdly, in matters non-political they seemed to have dived headlong into Daily Mail style shallow trivial shite - celebs, fashion, dieting, mild scandals, etc. 

It's almost like a strange attempt to capture the Mail's demographic and turn it socialist. 

It always strikes me that it has a Blairite vision for the country, which is mitigated free-market capitalism with a good conscience. 

It is the sort of vision which I think would make Labour electable - spend a bit more and tax a bit more, plus a social justice package, while avoiding alienating too many people.

The on-line readers have been complaining about the drift towards tawdry click-bait for a few years now, but I think they are trying to avoid the necessity of using a pay-wall.

Last time I looked it had a circulation of less than 60k which is falling but not a fast as many others.

[snowychap]

@darrenm, no need to resign - as Mike says, just cross the floor (like Woodward or Quentin Davies).

Edit: That would be quite a remarkable thing to happen, though, given the precarious nature of the government and any possible majority in a Con/DUP deal.

Edited June 12, 2017 by snowychap

[mjmooney]

54 minutes ago, snowychap said:

someone being too pissed in the bar to be able to make it to the lobby in time, &c.

Eminently possible. The HoC has an excellent - cheap, because subsidised - bar. 

[darrenm]

51 minutes ago, snowychap said:

@darrenm, no need to resign - as Mike says, just cross the floor (like Woodward or Quentin Davies).

Edit: That would be quite a remarkable thing to happen, though, given the precarious nature of the government and any possible majority in a Con/DUP deal.

ah, sorry @mjmooney I didn't see your post about this previously, I'll have a look back

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

If we're talking Brexit Deal then Ken Clarke reduces it instantly

I doubt this is true, personally. I know Ken has got fairly soft and cuddly in his old age, but he's a true blue Tory and very much a team player. It's one thing being allowed a soft 'no' as a genuflection to his seniority in the House, at a time when the bill was guaranteed passage, but quite another to be potentially the vote that collapses a Tory government. 

He doesn't even have to be an 'aye', he could just abstain. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by HanoiVillan

[chrisp65]