wazzap24 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, hippo said: Worked short term when they ditched Maggie for Major. Yes TBF it did. I'm not sure Major was faced with the same momentum from the opposition though was he? I'm not saying it 100% won't work, but I think it's a massive gamble for them now, whether they stick to the current path, or flip-flop on a few social issues to stop the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, blandy said: I'm not sure I agree, really on the "declining customer base" - I don't think it works like that, anyway. Even assuming that "pensioners" is the Tory base, there's a growing number and will be for a long time to come. As for tories being eclipsed - that would be extremely nice, but they're way more cynical. They will s Simply adopt a few superficially appealing (or genuinely appealing) policies for students, then carry on as normal, or what passes for normal, these days. There is a long-term decline in the tory vote, over several decades - a trend, not a continual erosion. They will certainly try to adapt to retain power, and they have been effective at that in the past. The trend remains. While Labour were in retreat, that didn't matter. If Labour can build on this result and push further with the youth vote, that becomes a game-changer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just now, StefanAVFC said: Well, yeah people generally vote for Labour/Tory as a vote for anything else is a complete waste of time, apart from in a specific set of constituencies. A fairer voting system would see people voting for the party they want to, rather than the party they think has a realistic chance of winning. Why would it ? Lets be kind and say the greens got 10 seats at an election. What laws would they be able through - or vote down ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Pretty epic result. Plus, if we get another election, I get a crack at helping each party write a manifesto that might actually solve the housing crisis for all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just now, hippo said: Why would it ? Lets be kind and say the greens got 10 seats at an election. What laws would they be able through - or vote down ? Theresa May is answering your question here, considering a party with 10 seats is on the verge of creating a majority government. The majority vote for a left wing party and instead we get an anti-abortion, anti-woman, anti-gay, climate change denying party in power. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just now, StefanAVFC said: Theresa May is answering your question here, considering a party with 10 seats is on the verge of creating a majority government. The majority vote for a left wing party and instead we get an anti-abortion, anti-woman, anti-gay, climate change denying party in power. Well I meant any election not just last nights. and the greens have publicy stated they would never help a tory gov't. PR, I believe is used in other countries - but the bigger parties still call the shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just now, hippo said: Well I meant any election not just last nights. and the greens have publicy stated they would never help a tory gov't. Irrelevant, you said how can a party with 10 seats do anything; a party with 10 seats will be part of a majority government. Just now, hippo said: PR, I believe is used in other countries - but the bigger parties still call the shots. Any examples? Netherlands uses PR and they often have coalitions of 3/4 parties in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Irrelevant, you said how can a party with 10 seats do anything; a party with 10 seats will be part of a majority government. Any examples? Netherlands uses PR and they often have coalitions of 3/4 parties in power. Could you imagine a coalition of labour- lib dems-SNP and greens? Would be absolute chaos (i know that wasn't your point but imagine if we had a situation like this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just now, Demitri_C said: Could you imagine a coalition of labour- lib dems-SNP and greens? Would be absolute chaos (i know that wasn't your point but imagine if we had a situation like this) More chaotic than Tories/DUP? If so, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2017 9 minutes ago, wazzap24 said: Do you not think we are heading to a point whereby joe public wouldn't believe them if they did that this time? It feels like there is a groundswell of change coming? Not enough yet, by any means, but that seems to be the direction. If labour can continue their current trajectory and the Tories don't turn this around, things could be very different in 12 months? Grumpy gits like me never believe them. So I'm kind of not really the right sort of person to answer that, tbh. On the groundswell thing, again, I dunno. Time will tell. It was great that (apparently) loads of younger people voted. If they hadn't we'd have had a tory majority etc. etc. But what's actually changed? All the policies that the students etc. liked - they're not going to get done. T.May is still PM, tories are still gov't. Brexit's still going to be the mother of all car crashes. All that's happened is more people have seen that T.May is a hollow numpty, UKIPs is dead, and there's a few more lib Dems and Labour seats and a few fewer tory seats. A lot of the reaction (mine included) is, I think, more about relief that what we feared would happen hasn't happened - whatever anyone's political persuasion - i.e. I'm chuffed there's no big tory majority, others will be chuffed Corbyn didn't get slaughtered because of the Daily Mail and Sun's bitter venom, or that the youth didn't fail to turn up again, or the SNP didn't get a resounding backing to split the UK.....or..whatever. Once that relief at all the things that didn't happen has gone away, nothing much is all that different, other than some perceptions. And perceptions change all the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnbull Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Well done Theresa May and to think of all the people branding Dianne Abbott as thick. Tory arrogance explodes in their faces again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Could you imagine a coalition of labour- lib dems-SNP and greens? Would be absolute chaos.. Luckily, we've got continued unflustered, calm, tory leadership. Apart from the fact that absolutely nothing whatsoever has been calm, gone to plan or looked remotely sane and that they're a chaotic abomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Im just waiting for TM to say she wants to stay in the single market ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, hippo said: Why would it ? Lets be kind and say the greens got 10 seats at an election. What laws would they be able through - or vote down ? While it's true it would be extremely difficult, in a more representative voting system you have improved opportunities to go against your party and vote for good. The following link is for private members bills etc that got through. Makes for interesting reading. In fact Lucas put forward PR in the past but the following guys voted it down....just... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) 57 minutes ago, peterms said: There is a long-term decline in the tory vote, over several decades - a trend, not a continual erosion. They will certainly try to adapt to retain power, and they have been effective at that in the past. The trend remains. While Labour were in retreat, that didn't matter. If Labour can build on this result and push further with the youth vote, that becomes a game-changer. Tory Labour 1987 - 42.2% 30.8% 1992 - 41.9% 34.4% 1997 - 30.7% 43.2% 2001 - 31.7% 40.7% 2005 - 32.4% 35.2% 2010 - 36.1% 29% 2015 - 36.9% 30.4% 2017 - 48 % ? 40% ? you could argue that UKIP has played a part in some of that erosion and clearly you can also see some fluctuations based on Leadership ..i.e Blairs first term v Brown The Tory vote & has increased every year since 1997 , so all in all I'm not sure you can describe it as a Trend Link to data can be found here if anyone is interested Edited June 9, 2017 by tonyh29 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) http://www.bbc.com/news/live/election-2017-40171454 Quote Theresa May says she is forming a government Theresa May says her government will "provide certainty" and work to keep the country "safe and secure". She's having a **** laugh right? It was her government who called a needless election which caused all of this uncertainty. I **** detest her. Edited June 9, 2017 by StefanAVFC 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Also they reckon Kensington will flip red. Kensington. If that isn't an example of growing Labour support then I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 2 hours ago, tonyh29 said: watching the various TV shows last night , they gave the impression May was talked into it and wasn't keen to call it ... could be spin and bluster of course , but tbf most of the people they had on the shows were very knowledgeable and had a lot of inside info heck I even found myself liking Ed Balls and George Osborne last night May absolutely comes across as a "yes" person. She cannot answer anything for the fear of offending a fellow Tory/misrepresenting what she's been told to churn out. Just stick to the slogans and insults, can't get those wrong. She is quite the opposite of strong and stable - but, then, it just highlights what a bunch of nasty cowards the Conservatives are - so, y'know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 9, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2017 24 minutes ago, peterms said: There is a long-term decline in the tory vote, over several decades - a trend, not a continual erosion. They will certainly try to adapt to retain power, and they have been effective at that in the past. The trend remains. While Labour were in retreat, that didn't matter. If Labour can build on this result and push further with the youth vote, that becomes a game-changer. Labour's trend is not dissimilar is it? I mean, obviously the future is unknown and al lthat, but if the overall trend for both has been downawrds, and in this election they've both put a kink in that downward trend, there's not much can be kind of extrapolated about the future. I hope you're right, but I'm unsure that there's anything other than hope to back it up. edit - I see @tonyh29 has put the stats up, above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) GB/UK = shit at football & politics Edited June 9, 2017 by Grasshopper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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