sidcow Posted May 11, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2022 59 minutes ago, Genie said: The US has approved another $40b of aid for Ukraine. They ain’t messing about. How long will if take fit Russia to realise they cant win? BBC reported today that Russia is expecting a long drawn out war hoping The West eventually lose interest and switch to domestic matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 13 minutes ago, sidcow said: BBC reported today that Russia is expecting a long drawn out war hoping The West eventually lose interest and switch to domestic matters. They can hope, but it won’t happen. The West are well aware of the risk that comes with a Russian victory. If the West start to get concerned with how long its taking they’ll just up the firepower and force Russia back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) 12 new TB2's apparently arrived today, along with another batch of Caesar artillery, drones, anti-ship missiles and drones from the U.S. How long is the Black Sea fleet going to survive outside Russian harbours? Edited May 11, 2022 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 59 minutes ago, sidcow said: BBC reported today that Russia is expecting a long drawn out war hoping The West eventually lose interest and switch to domestic matters. 45 minutes ago, Genie said: They can hope, but it won’t happen. The West are well aware of the risk that comes with a Russian victory. If the West start to get concerned with how long its taking they’ll just up the firepower and force Russia back. The head of Volkswagen said yesterday that we should negotiate a peace in Ukraine because its impacting the availability of car parts. Personally, I think that statement needs far more publicity. Quote The boss of Volkswagen has called for the EU to pursue a negotiated settlement to the war in Ukraine for the sake of the continent’s economy, an intervention that challenges the stance taken by European leaders. “I think we should do the utmost to really stop this war and get back to negotiations and get back to trying to open up the world again,” Herbert Diess told the Financial Times FT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 Volkswagen, famously supplied by Adolf with European slave labour and now having similar employment conditions for its workers in Xinjiang Province. I’m sure an occupied Ukraine is the Board’s dream scenario - once Russia’s Einsatzgruppen sorts out any local HR issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 2 hours ago, magnkarl said: 12 new TB2's apparently arrived today, along with another batch of Caesar artillery, drones, anti-ship missiles and drones from the U.S. How long is the Black Sea fleet going to survive outside Russian harbours? And one small aubergine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 11, 2022 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2022 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: The head of Volkswagen said yesterday that we should negotiate a peace in Ukraine because its impacting the availability of car parts. Personally, I think that statement needs far more publicity. FT To be fair the sentiment I think we should do the utmost to really stop this war and get back to negotiations and get back to trying to open up the world again" is not awry, really. Stopping the killing and destruction and maiming would be quite nice. Opening up the ability for Ukraine to export grain to Africa and the rest of the world would also be fairly pleasant. The difficulty/naivety is that there's not a cat in hell's chance that Putin will negotiate and/or withdraw his forces. So while the sentiment is probably one that most people share (if not the motivation around selling car parts), it's just words in a business newspaper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, blandy said: To be fair the sentiment I think we should do the utmost to really stop this war and get back to negotiations and get back to trying to open up the world again" is not awry, really. Stopping the killing and destruction and maiming would be quite nice. Opening up the ability for Ukraine to export grain to Africa and the rest of the world would also be fairly pleasant. The difficulty/naivety is that there's not a cat in hell's chance that Putin will negotiate and/or withdraw his forces. So while the sentiment is probably one that most people share (if not the motivation around selling car parts), it's just words in a business newspaper. ‘Pursue a negotiated settlement’ is very much saying see how much land Putin will accept to stop fighting, see how many people towns and villages Ukraine is prepared to lose, so we can all get back to normal, because ‘business’. I understand that opinion, but given the track record, the ambition, the atrocities of Russia it does feel incredibly crass in this case. What if he also wants a little bit of Poland in exchange for peace? Probably worth it so we can keep on businessing? Then just a tiny foothold in Norway and a little token piece of Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania… I think its best VW shut up and sit this one out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 11, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2022 Maybe the answer is to ask Herbert Diess if he is happy for his home town and/or the town where he currently lives to become a Russian enclave in Germany in the name of peace. If he is OK with that then all good. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Genie said: They can hope, but it won’t happen. The West are well aware of the risk that comes with a Russian victory. If the West start to get concerned with how long its taking they’ll just up the firepower and force Russia back. A long drawn out war is exactly what "the west" wants. As long as Russia don't win. 1) The longer this goes on it weakens Russia. 2) Biden and other governments can pour money into their War Machines (cough financial donors) whilst not risking local troops. Edited May 11, 2022 by pas5898 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, pas5898 said: A long drawn out war is exactly what "the west" wants. As long as Russia don't win. 1) The longer this goes on it weakens Russia. 2) Biden and other governments can pour money into their War Machines (cough financial donors) whilst not risking local troops. Yes, the US said as much a couple of weeks ago. When it ends they want Russia go be broke in every sense. They will keep feathering the throttle to keep Russia at bay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 11, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2022 It would be much cheaper to invest these billions in heat pumps and electric cars than prolong an unnecessary war. I think people have completely misinterpreted those words. I think they just literally meant Russia should be defeated and not be able to wage this kind of war again rather than the war should go on for years in order to break Russia. The sanctions and stopping oil and gas imports is the easier, quicker and cheaper way to bankrupt Russia, not a 10 year war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted May 11, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 11, 2022 If you subscribe to the ideal that the elite only make decisions to make more money all they need to do is ensure them and all their mates have invested heavily in clean tech businesses and hey presto, they can make money off that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, sidcow said: It would be much cheaper to invest these billions in heat pumps and electric cars than prolong an unnecessary war. I think people have completely misinterpreted those words. I think they just literally meant Russia should be defeated and not be able to wage this kind of war again rather than the war should go on for years in order to break Russia. The sanctions and stopping oil and gas imports is the easier, quicker and cheaper way to bankrupt Russia, not a 10 year war. The thing is, before the Ukraine war Russia had a big army, lots of equipment and the conventional clout to invade and massacre their way through most of their non-aligned neighbours. With having lost a reported 20-30% of their working gear it's starting to look like even smaller countries have enough deterrent to keep Vladimir from banging in the door. We shouldn't be allowing business leaders to cry about their profits when people are being massacred in the street by fascists, we should all be helping Ukraine beat said fascists back to the 18th century so they lose power over the world's largest country. It's a bit like giving Hitler Sudetenland and Austria to try to make him happy. Fascists are never happy. They invent the next issue that needs to be knocked over in order to 'secure Russian\German safety'. Appeasement never works. Nazi-Germany, Pol Pot, Ceausescu, Franco, Amin, Noriega, they all ended in massive civilian casualties because no one dared to interfere until it was too late. Give Ukraine enough gear and support to give Putin's government a gut shot, allow them to bleed out slowly until some form of democratic opposition can overthrow the bastards. Edited May 11, 2022 by magnkarl 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 (edited) The new coping mechanism of Putin's regime is that it's now good that their equipment was blown up because it wasn't a javelin or nlaw that did it.. It's much better to claim that a much weaker Swedish rifle did the job against one of their 'super duper' tanks. Post by Russian controlled media below, translated. Edited May 11, 2022 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 11, 2022 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2022 7 hours ago, magnkarl said: The new coping mechanism of Putin's regime is that it's now good that their equipment was blown up because it wasn't a javelin or nlaw that did it.. It's much better to claim that a much weaker Swedish rifle did the job against one of their 'super duper' tanks. Post by Russian controlled media below, translated. Do the Russians not remember that 6 were destroyed in Syria and one of those by T-72 The only reason they've only lost one in Ukraine so far is that they haven't sent them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 11, 2022 Moderator Share Posted May 11, 2022 Huge news if this is true. For those who are unaware Arestovich (The guy on the right) is an advisor to Zelensky 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted May 11, 2022 Share Posted May 11, 2022 43 minutes ago, bickster said: Huge news if this is true. For those who are unaware Arestovich (The guy on the right) is an advisor to Zelensky Does this mean Russia's unlimited relationship with China now has limits??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 8 hours ago, bickster said: Huge news if this is true. For those who are unaware Arestovich (The guy on the right) is an advisor to Zelensky Apparently after China did a bit of state overview on what they actually had in their grain storage facilities it turns out that corruption was so rampant that many owners burned the storage facilities in order not to get caught stealing. I guess China realised that Ukraine is the only stable supplier of seeding-wheat and grain in the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted May 12, 2022 Share Posted May 12, 2022 Will China do anything? Or just not back Russia as i’m sure Russia are banking on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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