Mic09 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: I used to think this as well, however I'm starting to think now that he has gone mad. I don't think he is. I think his speech with the remarks of history, lenin, the Russia Empire, that's all to appease the Russian public. Propaganda. Putin is cold and calculating. I think the comparisons to Hitler and Nazis in 39 are very far off the mark, and we should be careful with those. If Putin is Hitler, the entire west should attack now. If we believe that, we need to act now. Personally, I think this is a much more calculated conflict (in my opinion). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: I’m with Mic09 on this. He knows the West won’t really do much more than sanctions and supplying weapons and so he’s prepared to take the sanctions on the chin, feels he can overpower the Ukrainians and get the country. He knew weeks in advance what the sanctions could be, and he must have clearly analysed the pros and cons. He didn't wake up yesterday thinking 'shit, what about the economy'. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: I think the comparisons to Hitler and Nazis in 39 are very far off the mark, and we should be careful with those. If Putin is Hitler, the entire west should attack now. If we believe that, we need to act now. It’s what he does next which will determine the response of the west. Take Ukraine, or part of it and move back then that’s that. If he moves his troops to the borders of the neighbours, or there’s intelligence he wants more then there will need to be some kind of action. I desperately hope his intentions do not extend beyond Ukraine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubbs Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 12 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said: The amount of 'experts' the BBC are having on zoom I'm fully expecting Harry Rednapp to show his face exclaiming that Vlad is a top kid Knowing Harry he'll try and sanction a transfer for Vladimir!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, Genie said: It’s what he does next which will determine the response of the west. Take Ukraine, or part of it and move back then that’s that. If he moves his troops to the borders of the neighbours, or there’s intelligence he wants more then there will need to be some kind of action. I desperately hope his intentions do not extend beyond Ukraine. I hope you are right. I also hope that, should he take entire Ukraine and move his troops on Polish border, NATO won't be trigger happy. Ukraine did so well in not giving Russians a single excuse. No provocation, no rush actions. Politically, they acted very smartly and there is no argument that Russia is in the wrong. Militarily, they have paid a price for this - instead of meeting Russians heads on near their borders, they weren't set up for a military action as to not cause provocation. Entire western block should take example of how Ukraine acted in the days leading to this. US seems to be doing that by sending troops to Germany, rather than directly to Poland (which obviously has a large US presence already) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, Mic09 said: He knew weeks in advance what the sanctions could be, and he must have clearly analysed the pros and cons. He didn't wake up yesterday thinking 'shit, what about the economy'. Yes, and I bet he, his cronies and Russian banks and companies have been quietly repatriating or reinvesting in eg China as much value as they could without making it obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, Mic09 said: I hope you are right. I also hope that, should he take entire Ukraine and move his troops on Polish border, NATO won't be trigger happy. Ukraine did so well in not giving Russians a single excuse. No provocation, no rush actions. Politically, they acted very smartly and there is no argument that Russia is in the wrong. You're not wrong, but I'm not sure the moral high ground is going to do them much good when they're no longer a country, while the rest of the world issues stern statements and sits on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, dubbs said: Knowing Harry he'll try and sanction a transfer for Vladimir!! With a bit of luck he'll accidentally run over him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, Davkaus said: You're not wrong, but I'm not sure the moral high ground is going to do them much good when they're no longer a country, while the rest of the world issues stern statements and sits on their hands. Ukraine would have lost a military conflict with Russia anyway. Information is warfare just as much as a cannon, so giving Russians a 'plausible deniability' of intentions would have counterproductive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 The Ukrainian president is calling for combat ready Europeans to join him in fighting Russia. I presume some Poles\Hungarians\Czechs etc will actually do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2022 Just now, magnkarl said: The Ukrainian president is calling for combat ready Europeans to join him in fighting Russia. I presume some Poles\Hungarians\Czechs etc will actually do this? I would imagine there will be some. We have seen British citizens fighting in foreign wars before. I would think there are plenty of motivated former USSR people who would feel strong enough to join in. There does seem to be a lot of anti Russian sentiment in many of those former States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, magnkarl said: The Ukrainian president is calling for combat ready Europeans to join him in fighting Russia. I presume some Poles\Hungarians\Czechs etc will actually do this? brother in law who lives in Warsaw said there is plenty of buses with Ukrainians going back to fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2022 Russian Grand Prix is cancelled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 It's probably been said in here before but **** Putin. Why would anyone want to inflict this much pain on people? Beyond me. Just pure evil. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 48 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I keep hearing about Nordstream 2 , but no mention of Nordstream ( 1) which pretty much runs the same route best I can tell ? its also a Gazprom venture (51% owned) with NL and Germany both owning around 15% is Nord 2 just a political football in all this ? Dunno. I wonder of Nord 2 is the real issue and ukrainne is the football. Edited February 25, 2022 by hippo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, calcifer said: There would be no winner as this looney is not be afraid to use a nuke. Could but smoke and mirrors but nothing is off the table with mad Vlad!! Cold and calculating maybe. But calling everyone who has a conflict with the west a 'madman' or a 'looney' gets a bit long in the tooth to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 55 minutes ago, Mic09 said: I don't think he is. I think his speech with the remarks of history, lenin, the Russia Empire, that's all to appease the Russian public. Propaganda. Putin is cold and calculating. I think the comparisons to Hitler and Nazis in 39 are very far off the mark, and we should be careful with those. If Putin is Hitler, the entire west should attack now. If we believe that, we need to act now. Personally, I think this is a much more calculated conflict (in my opinion). I agree, beyond the land grabbing the comparisons are a bit lazy imo the ideology and reasoning is nowhere near the same This isn't uber mensch, lebensraum and a thousand year reich, it's not even revenge I don't think he's a mad man or even half way to being a dictator, my very basic understanding of his government is that its more like stalin than Hitler, surrounded by mates in high positions meaning that he has no real opposition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 1 hour ago, CVByrne said: Yeah he'll put in a Pro Russian puppet and then job done How do you actually do that in a democratic country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said: How do you actually do that in a democratic country? Ask the yanks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 25, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said: How do you actually do that in a democratic country? You do know Russia has elections don't you? It's just that Putin always wins, every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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