17/18 Promotion Charge

[TRO]

34 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I really don’t want to sound like a dog with a bone but what have you seen that makes you feel that ?

I watched the game and saw nothing I don’t see at Villa other than Fulham spend more time knocking the ball around at the back.

I genuinely don’t see what the massive difference is.

I saw defenders hoof it sometimes, play it others, I saw some decent passing and some poor passing. I saw some good tackles and a couple of very poor ones.

Keepers booting the ball out, throwing it well, throwing it not so well. Some corners hit well, several too deep. Some fine individual skill.

A few shots blazed over the bar. Some decent movement off the ball, some good defending. I saw the balance shift to and fro a bit.

Now.......which game was I describing ? Today’s or yesterday’s ?

Not being funny but far from seeing a huge difference I see practically none.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Stevo985]

8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I have to say, I'd rather have our points total than Brentford's style of play. 

I also wonder how many people idolising Brentford's style of play actually watch them a lot. 

I'd wager Brentford have more games over a season where they play shit football than we do.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

15 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

I have to say, I'd rather have our points total than Brentford's style of play. 

This is an oversimplification of the highest order, and i'm sure you know it.

I'm sure there is ZERO need for me to get into budgets vs. position, expectation and so on.

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I also wonder how many people idolising Brentford's style of play actually watch them a lot. 

I'd wager Brentford have more games over a season where they play shit football than we do.

To be fair, you have a point here, not going to pretend to have seen many Brentford games.

However, I just go off of the few I have seen,as well as the musings of other fans, general talk, and commentators.

This would be similar to asking how we know Wolves or Fulham play good football though wouldn't it?

We don't watch many Cardiff games but we have a general idea of the type of team they are too.

Edited April 14, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Thanks @JAMAICAN-VILLAN for taking the trouble to answer at least I know now !!

In my view...

..Quick accurate passing...in the opposition half I see little difference, in their own half it is irrelevant....also from Fulham I see an awful lot of dull, slow, accurate passing.

Switching....in my view we do that quite a bit. Additionally I’m not sure why that’s a good thing anyway.....it does my head in..looks great but inevitably cover gets across at the same time...

Mode of attack....I just disagree....I think we do a decent variety....for a start our most potent creator is Jack and he is rarely down the wing. Secondly, I like wing play, and find it far far more enjoyable to watch than teams passing it through crowded middles.

Pressing.... we do it sometimes but not others....not sure that I find it “ exciting” in itself though...it’s just a tool for the job against passing sides.

Team selection and Subs ? Not sure what is intrinsically more enjoyable or watchable about their selection over Jack, Snoddy, Kodja, Albert....

The last 45 minutes ive rewatched it in the interests of scientific research.....and I rewatched last nights game when I got back from the game.

I still don’t see a difference, or a minute one at that.

Mind you I never saw what was supposed to be so special about the Ipswich team of 1981 either.

Also I’m puzzled....if they really do pass better, create better, adjust better, vary things better....if they do all that better... why aren’t they scoring tons more goals and getting tons more points ? But I appreciate  that’s a different topic in a way.

 

I can see both points of view.

for me I just accept that a manager has the task of getting his team promoted or win the Prem.......How he does it, is up to him.

I think in one of your earlier posts you pointed out that success has come our way in the past and not playing TOO dissimilar to what we are now....except better individual quality.

I don't think we have ever been an eye catching team.....nearly always relied on special individuals for our edge and entertainment.

 

Edited April 14, 2018 by TRO

[markavfc40]

23 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Trouble is we played horribly second half against Leeds, so again we can't be certain which Villa is going to be turning up.

I think you are being a bit harsh there mate. We still had some very good chances in the second half, the Adomah one from the clever Grealish pass, the one where Hogan was through and the double save from Grabban and Kodjia I think it was. I think you also have to take into account that was both teams 5th game in 13 days and we put a lot into the game three days earlier which I think caught up with us in the second half especially.

I agree to a certain extent that we don't know which side is going to turn up but I think since Christmas we have turned up pretty much in every game when playing teams around us and when playing the games with the most hype. Boro, Bristol City, Sheff Utd, Wolves, Cardiff were all either ahead of us or around us when we played them and we beat them all. Sha, Wolves and Cardiff were big games played in big atmospheres and we won them all. The only game against a team competing at the top end of the league we haven't won since Christmas was Fulham. It has in the main been against the sides you'd expect us to beat where we have not turned up, QPR, Bolton, Hull, Norwich immediately spring to mind.

I just don't see us not being up for or not turning up for the play off games and when we do turn up, as we have shown since Christmas, we usually win.

[terrytini]

Villa Talk match thread yesterday ? Quoted in order they appeared through the thread...

So many misplaced passes/we’ve been awful/shambolic/a struggle /awful, lucky to go in level/Manager needs to sort this out/lack of composure/ need to buck ides up/wasteful/need to attack the ball/one shot on target says it all/abject/we need to be more positive/wasted too much time/poor subs from the Manager/fortunate to get a draw........that’s 2nd gone.

From https://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=60447.60 today....

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

To be fair, you have a point here, not going to pretend to have seen many Brentford games.

However, I just go off of the few I have seen,as well as the musings of other fans, general talk, and commentators.

This would be similar to asking how we know Wolves or Fulham play good football though wouldn't it?

We don't watch many Cardiff games but we have a general idea of the type of team they are too.

I kinda know what you mean, however, for long periods in that game Fulham just contained Brentford and quite well i might add, but if we did that, we would be criticised.

I think they and Wolves have a few more players who are more comfortable on the ball and it becomes easy on the eye.....much like Jack.....but Conor, whelan, Mile, lansbury  is not quite so.

Steve Bruce has recently made a few references about the way we play, so he is well aware of what he is doing.....like " it suits the way we do it" etc.

[Nigel]

What a crap day for results

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Villa Talk match thread yesterday ? Quoted in order they appeared through the thread...

So many misplaced passes/we’ve been awful/shambolic/a struggle /awful, lucky to go in level/Manager needs to sort this out/lack of composure/ need to buck ides up/wasteful/need to attack the ball/one shot on target says it all/abject/we need to be more positive/wasted too much time/poor subs from the Manager/fortunate to get a draw........that’s 2nd gone.

From https://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=60447.60 today....

says it all.

thanks Terry, one way to put it to bed.

Edited April 14, 2018 by TRO

[briny_ear]

39 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Was going to do a short tongue in cheek rebuttal but let me just try to sum it up.

- Quick, accurate passing. (Alot of the time we struggle to make the most basic passes to our team mates, i'm sure you know how terrible our ball retention is. We also tend to dilly dally with the ball and slow stroke it like we are at a practice match. We often telegraph our moves)

- Quick switching of play from wing to wing. (We would usually prefer to pass it about in a corner until we lose it, as a pose to quickly switching play to the other wing, or even simpler, midfield)

- Different modes of both attack and defense. (We seem to have ONE mode of attack, get it down the wings, cross and repeat, even when it is evident it is not, and WILL not work, fresh example which comes to mind is Hull)

- Intense pressing. (We often fall asleep to the point where i'm shouting at the TV screen as I watch opposition players roam into acres of space)

So adding to what you have said, there is alot MORE of the positive stuff you "saw today" and alot LESS of the negative stuff you saw today, in these teams.

Vice versa with us. 

I'm sure there are other people on here who could more eloquently describe what I'm trying to say in depth.

They just play better football than us overall, in Brentfords case, I feel it is just the extra quality they lack.

You can tell they are well drilled, and know what they are doing.

Throw team selections, subs and so on into the mix for a more complete picture.

Amazing that, with such superiority in every aspect as you describe, they have only managed to scrape 3 more points than us this season.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

6 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Villa Talk match thread yesterday ? Quoted in order they appeared through the thread...

So many misplaced passes/we’ve been awful/shambolic/a struggle /awful, lucky to go in level/Manager needs to sort this out/lack of composure/ need to buck ides up/wasteful/need to attack the ball/one shot on target says it all/abject/we need to be more positive/wasted too much time/poor subs from the Manager/fortunate to get a draw........that’s 2nd gone.

From https://www.friendsoffulham.com/forum/index.php?topic=60447.60 today....

After reading that thread, it appears all football fans are batshite crazy. 

Not just us

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

says it all.

When a team like Man U and a Manager like Jose  feel a need to reference fans criticism when they are sitting in second place......It makes you wonder if its time WE ( fans)examined what we are saying.

god help the rest of us.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

5 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Amazing that, with such superiority in every aspect as you describe, they have only managed to scrape 3 more points than us this season.

Well after reading the thread @terrytini linked to their forum.

It really puts things into perspective.

Their fans are actually as scared as, or even MORE scared of playoffs than us.

Regarding the points haul, i think there are too many variables to go into.

Edited April 14, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

After reading that thread, it appears all football fans are batshite crazy. 

Not just us

Its funny.

I just think ( and we are all guilty) we fail to appreciate the team on the other side, trying to stop us, doing all the things we want to do.

[Stevo985]

31 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

To be fair, you have a point here, not going to pretend to have seen many Brentford games.

However, I just go off of the few I have seen,as well as the musings of other fans, general talk, and commentators.

This would be similar to asking how we know Wolves or Fulham play good football though wouldn't it?

We don't watch many Cardiff games but we have a general idea of the type of team they are too.

My point is I think people on here have an ideal standard of "football" that probably doesn't exist in this division apart from possibly Wolves. We see all of our games so we see the games where our football is shit.

Then we come up against Brentford who play well vs us and we assume that that is how they play all season. 

I bet fans of most of the clubs in the Championship would love it if their team played the football we do.

Edited April 14, 2018 by Stevo985

[terrytini]

So if I’ve got this right we are all agreed the whole thing is just the same for everyone, every Club, everywhere,  and it’s really a total waste of time.

Thank goodness for that !

[terrytini]

Oh, and, er....

Don’t rate that Jokanovic - fancy letting in a goal like that as late as that just when they needed the Win....shocking.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

My point is I think people on here have an ideal standard of "football" that probably doesn't exist in this division apart from possibly Wolves. We see all of our games so we see the games where are football is shit.

Then we come up against Brentford who play well vs us and we assume that that is how they play all season. 

I bet fans of most of the clubs in the Championship would love it if their team played the football we do.

I don't think the vast majority of fans would care how we played if we finished top 2.

The standard is generally poor in this league. We see the way Jack plays and wish more players were on his wavelength but the reality is that if they were it's unlikely they would be playing in this league. 

[TRO]

I would say to all Villa Fans.....very few people want to give us any credit for anything.

Blimey , when we won the coveted prize i think  we had an half hour slot on TV......even Cloughie peed his pants laughing at the almost dismissal.

Ron Saunders was always taunted with 110 % work rate ,"thats all they are".....The England team begrudging selected some of our players.

outside of B6 we have always struggled for recognition......even Shankly had to come to the rescue after we won the league with his famous quip ( when asked if we deserved it) " any team that wins 26 games in a season, deserves it"

Lets not join them......We need to get behind the lads.