Villa losses trebled in accounts

[Villan_of_oz]

@terrytini and @dont_do_it_doug. from a relative newby can I just say that I've had little or no direct interaction with either of you but I can tell you're both passionate villa fans, that doesn't mean you can't have differing views. These are really tough times, but don't give it to each other. I don't think either of you are wrong. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Villan_of_oz

[dont_do_it_doug.]

2 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Just because you are happy to be spoken to a certain way doesn't mean it's ok. 

Right there in that post is a lot of the reason why interaction between people is often less civil than it should be.

If I didn't care whether you threw rubbish in my garden would it be ok for me to throw it in yours ?

 

Mate, honestly, you've taken it waaaay to easily to heart. You're obviously on a right debbie downer at the minute, which is fair enough. The football has been mostly crap for a few years. However for the sake of everyone else if you can't handle your posts being described with words like 'tripe' you might want to block me. You are dominating the forum at the minute, but you can't expect everyone else to tiptoe around you buddy. 

I'm leaving it there anyway.

[sexbelowsound]

To be honest, suggesting the club should be wound up should illicit responses far worse than "tripe" IMO.

I'd rather watch Villa play non-league than them be wound up. 

[markavfc40]

21 minutes ago, terrytini said:

(And Mark, whilst you make valid points I started watching us the year we were relegated to Division 3 and apart from the initial disaster as we hit rock bottom it was mostly positive after....it never felt like this long term free fall, to me anyway).

I guess you were fortunate then mate and you caught the back end of our fall but it started in the mid 60’s and we got relegated to the second tier in 67 then the third tier in 71. There would have been fans like many of us are now in total despair at what was happening wondering when and where it would all end. It took us until 1975 to get back into the top flight, so 8 years, which perhaps is a good example that you can’t cure years of mismanagement overnight. It takes time, it takes stability, it takes patience from supporters and it certainly needs us to not tar those now at the club with the ills of the past. They are not responsible for that. 

We have to leave what happened the last 6 years where it is, in the past. I think we have bottomed out now and I don’t see us dropping any further. Results have been poor the last couple of months but I believe the ship has been settled and we will head forward from here. You have kept the faith for 50 years mate so I know you can, and will, keep it for a bit longer.

[limpid]

@terrytini and @dont_do_it_doug.. Take it to PM.

[terrytini]

7 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Why? 

That's frighteningly sensitive. If you'd said that to me in person I'd still say it is, in my opinion of course, miserable tripe. What's the problem? We're adults with the freedom to express ourselves however we wish. I wish no personal ill will on you. 

Take a break man. 

See that's where we differ .

You say "we are adults free to express ourselves as we wish "........I say being adult means expressing yourselves politely.

Wjen you disagree with your wife do you tell her she is "talking tripe" ? If so, no comment. If not , why not ?

Anyway, by your logic, you expressed your view and I responded with mine, so why feel the need to suggest I ' take s break'?

 

[terrytini]

Just now, limpid said:

@terrytini and @dont_do_it_doug.. Take it to PM.

Ok

[Villan_of_oz]

I think this thread just shows how shattering this is to all of us. Different players, different staff, different managers, different owners etc etc. Same old fans, some get to leave without a care in the world. Not us fans though we endure every minute, day, week, month, year and decade of it. We are the ones who buy our season ticket, or buy all the gear. We are the ones that give everything to our club. We are upset because we can't find enough people at our club to care as much as we do. Care enough so they might put in decent performances and we might enjoy the football our club plays. 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

I've told my missus she's talking tripe yeah. She does it often.

Then she barks at me, I reach for the pate and all is forgiven. 

Anyway hey, those accounts! Mental. I hope they wind this shite old club up. Bunch of useless rocket polishers. Though just to try and drag this back on topic, I wonder just how different the make up of the club is now compared to May 2016. Anyone care to guess?

[terrytini]

2 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I guess you were fortunate then mate and you caught the back end of our fall but it started in the mid 60’s and we got relegated to the second tier in 67 then the third tier in 71. There would have been fans like many of us are now in total despair at what was happening wondering when and where it would all end. It took us until 1975 to get back into the top flight, so 8 years, which perhaps is a good example that you can’t cure years of mismanagement overnight. It takes time, it takes stability, it takes patience from supporters and it certainly needs us to not tar those now at the club with the ills of the past. They are not responsible for that. 

We have to leave what happened the last 6 years where it is, in the past. I think we have bottomed out now and I don’t see us dropping any further. Results have been poor the last couple of months but I believe the ship has been settled and we will head forward from here. You have kept the faith for 50 years mate so I know you can, and will, keep it for a bit longer.

Fair points as ever.

I do vaguely recall, and have of course since learnt about, the darkest days, the shares, the fans who went and repainted the place and all the rest, so yes it's fair to say times were very bad, desperate, and we did indeed bounce back. 

Having said that, knowledge that it's possible- or even likely  - that we do so again doesn't necessarily equate to having the strengths to go through it all again .

Like most on here I keep life in perspective, I know in the end it's only a game, and that reality is the other stuff BUT also like most on here the Villa is a HUGE part of my life, and if you like an escape from the harsher parts of that reality.

As such, what has happened - and continues to happen - to the Club is, in its own way ( not literally guys before you pounce !!) almost like living with a degenerative illness ( again not literally I'm aware - acutely- of the difference)....it really does feel ( to me) sometimes that it would be a kind of merciful release if it just went away.

Of course, equally, I know deep down if it did it would leave an irreplaceable hole.

[terrytini]

3 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I've told my missus she's talking tripe yeah. She does it often.

Then she barks at me, I reach for the pate and all is forgiven. 

Anyway hey, those accounts! Mental. I hope they wind this shite old club up. Bunch of useless rocket polishers. Though just to try and drag this back on topic, I wonder just how different the make up of the club is now compared to May 2016. Anyone care to guess?

Well there's the difference we never do.....

I guess a different way of saying what I said, and one that brings us more specifically to the accounts, is this;

A bit like our economy, we've lived through the 'Villa Austerity ' program and it has cost us so much. Yet, also like the economy, we don't seem to have reached an end. I sure I'm not alone on being horrified at these figures.

Ive found some posts since to be a little more reassuring but it's hard to find anything good to say about those losses.

I can see sense in waiting to see next years but it seems pretty chilling news to me ( or at least to that part of me that doesn't want us to be wound up !)

I don't know how it works financially but surely some explanation either accompanying or ahead of the publication of full accounts would help ?

 

[markavfc40]

16 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Fair points as ever.

I do vaguely recall, and have of course since learnt about, the darkest days, the shares, the fans who went and repainted the place and all the rest, so yes it's fair to say times were very bad, desperate, and we did indeed bounce back. 

Having said that, knowledge that it's possible- or even likely  - that we do so again doesn't necessarily equate to having the strengths to go through it all again .

Like most on here I keep life in perspective, I know in the end it's only a game, and that reality is the other stuff BUT also like most on here the Villa is a HUGE part of my life, and if you like an escape from the harsher parts of that reality.

As such, what has happened - and continues to happen - to the Club is, in its own way ( not literally guys before you pounce !!) almost like living with a degenerative illness ( again not literally I'm aware - acutely- of the difference)....it really does feel ( to me) sometimes that it would be a kind of merciful release if it just went away.

Of course, equally, I know deep down if it did it would leave an irreplaceable hole.

It hurts mate but I take solace in the fact that I know we will eventually come again and when we do it will feel all the better for all the crap we have been through. I celebrated the win on Saturday as much as I celebrated a lot of wins I had witnessed in the top flight. A win that left us 17th in the Championship.

We can’t change where we are and what has happened and from here it is going to be a long road back to where we all want the club to be but I intend to enjoy every forward step whilst accepting that we will take some back.

Results on the pitch haven’t been great, these latest results off them are diabolical on the face of it but there has been a new broom sweep through the club this last 8 months or so. An owner with the enthusiasm, ambition and it appears at present the business acumen and where with all to take us forward and below him people both qualified and experienced to carry out the day to day running of the club. That is a huge step forward already to what we had under Lerner.

[terrytini]

There's the difference.... I actually didn't celebrate at the end. 

Id won first goal scorer at 40-1, had good banter all game with the guys around, sang a lot ( though less than usual ) was pleased with the visibly increased fight shown by the team, and relieved to move away from the drop zone, but at the end of the game I just politely applauded the team while some were singing DLBIA. 

Cant ever remember feeling so flat after a win.

And then the news of these losses just seemed to say "there's plenty more crap where that lot came from"

Anyway ill make an extra big effort not to be pathetic tonight !!

[terrytini]

Not sure if this is the best thread for it, but seems fairly appropriate, I'd like to ask Mark - or anyone else - a genuine question as to what progress they think we have made. 

I don't mean the football or Manager or League position, that's for other places, but in terms of finances, infrastructure, development, revenues, and all that .

Because I don't see much. I don't mean that negatively, I mean it literally, I mean, I accept it could well be there but can anyone enlighten me.

The accounts don't show it, obviously, I don't see anything different at the ground, TRO posted the other day that there may still be 'back stabbing' etc.

It would be refreshing to hear what are the tangible ( rather than proposed) signs that we are  progressing.

[TRO]

There is one thing that the last 130 years has taught us about this great institution.

ITS WORTH FIGHTING FOR.

during the dark days of Dick Taylor,Tommy Cummings & Tommy Docherty.....never in a millions years did I think we would have a period like we did under Ron Saunders,Tony Barton & Roy McLaren....Halcyon days.

When it comes......and it will......success is so much sweeter.

do you not think that when I was standing in that Feyenord stadium, that my thoughts drifted back to those days playing the likes of Cardiff and Preston and watching players trying to do the basics.....and that made it oh so much more emotional.

The fight is on.......WE WILL BE BACK.

[terrytini]

I remember keep telling my Son for about 10 years not to be upset every time United beat us.

"One day we WILL beat them, and we will get far, far, far more out of it than they EVER have beating us". 

And we did, finally, at Old Trafford, (09 ?), and what a fantastic celebration, what utter joy. Brilliant day. Wouldn't have missed it for anything.

But just a few games before he'd stopped going, aged 19, having decided MONs  football wasn't worth his Saturdays.  Shame.

I guess it's whether you feel you can keep going through the lows !

[TRO]

4 hours ago, terrytini said:

There's the difference.... I actually didn't celebrate at the end. 

Id won first goal scorer at 40-1, had good banter all game with the guys around, sang a lot ( though less than usual ) was pleased with the visibly increased fight shown by the team, and relieved to move away from the drop zone, but at the end of the game I just politely applauded the team while some were singing DLBIA. 

Cant ever remember feeling so flat after a win.

And then the news of these losses just seemed to say "there's plenty more crap where that lot came from"

Anyway ill make an extra big effort not to be pathetic tonight !!

Congratulation on your bet.....I got 13/2 on the 1-0

We all get feeling like this at times and it is only natural we all say things we regret.I do at times.

Its kinda civilised to lift each other's spirits......We will come through this.

I am not trying to make any mileage out of Leicester, but it does sometimes make you wonder what goes on behind closed doors.....seems like something was lifted in the Liverpool game and their manager was a proper guy too, sad......I just wonder if any of us really understand the shenanigans of B6 in their true form.

Hey HO!

UTV

ps its my Birthday today, hoping to get a Villa Park present tonight.....A win

Edited February 28, 2017 by TRO

[terrytini]

Happy birthday old timer

[PaulC]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

There is one thing that the last 130 years has taught us about this great institution.

ITS WORTH FIGHTING FOR.

during the dark days of Dick Taylor,Tommy Cummings & Tommy Docherty.....never in a millions years did I think we would have a period like we did under Ron Saunders,Tony Barton & Roy McLaren....Halcyon days.

When it comes......and it will......success is so much sweeter.

do you not think that when I was standing in that Feyenord stadium, that my thoughts drifted back to those days playing the likes of Cardiff and Preston and watching players trying to do the basics.....and that made it oh so much more emotional.

The fight is on.......WE WILL BE BACK.

Yes but you had to wait 15 years for that Tro. I don't want to wait another 15 years I do feel sorry for younger fans who have never experienced anything like we have. Winning the league remains one of my proudest moments. The day at Hillsborough when we thrashed Wednesday and got back to the top tier my fav. Good times will come again but other big clubs like Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday have had to wait a long time. Leeds were the team when I was young kid.

[markavfc40]

26 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Not sure if this is the best thread for it, but seems fairly appropriate, I'd like to ask Mark - or anyone else - a genuine question as to what progress they think we have made. 

You need to remember these losses came under Lerner and I’m relatively confident in saying that the 79 mill in exceptional items are very much one offs related to Lerner leaving.

I’ll have a stab at what has improved. I think Xia is a vast improvement on Lerner. We don’t know the ins and outs of him but it appears he is a very successful businessman something Lerner never was having inherited his fortune. He is both enthusiastic and ambitious something the previous owner hadn’t been for half a dozen years.

Under him we now have an experienced CEO something we never had under Lerner. We have a highly qualified technical director. We are overhauling our academy which was a shambles where by Everton had more scouts in the West Midlands than we did. We are currently overhauling the catering side of the club which Wyness stated the other day was losing over 1 million pound a year. Wyness actually stated on Friday that every draw he opened during his first few months here he found a problem. We only really witnessed our demise on the pitch but off it the club was a shambolic mess. The simple stat that during 10 years under Lerner our non-TV income rose by a single figure percentage at a time the Premier League was booming says it all. I think under Xia he has the business acumen to ensure our  commercial income is maximised

Time will tell on much of this though won’t it. You can only take people at face value and I can’t go through life thinking that just because the previous owner failed I am not prepared to trust this one. I think as a collective we owe it to the new people at the club to give them a fair crack of the whip and put our faith in them. Two things we desperately need to give them is time and our backing. With us behind them it will certainly make their jobs much easier and give us a greater chance of success.

Getting this back on topic I am not too concerned with these losses especially as it appears 79 mill of it was related to one off items. We will know more in the next few days but regardless the losses were not incurred under Xia and Wyness as already stated the club now has no debt.

Edited February 28, 2017 by markavfc40