Villa losses trebled in accounts

[terrytini]

I certainly agree we have what appear to be much better people in place. Certainly in Wyness we have a guy who knows what he's doing, and I fully agree they inherited a diabolical mess and need time etc. I can only judge Xia on what he's done so far which has been to invest money and from all appearances considerable time energy and enthusiasm, whereas at the same stage Lerner had only really done the first of these.

What I was driving at was whether anyone had any actual instances of significant ( or even minor) progress.

Really, apart from their credentials, the only bits you've mentioned ( not having a dig) are that they are 'overhauling ' catering and BMH.

But does anyone know what they've actually DONE in those regards that represents progress, and what have they done elsewhere.

As I say this is not intended in

the least negatively I would genuinely be interested ( and hopefully encouraged) to hear.

Edited February 28, 2017 by terrytini

[TRO]

4 hours ago, terrytini said:

I remember keep telling my Son for about 10 years not to be upset every time United beat us.

"One day we WILL beat them, and we will get far, far, far more out of it than they EVER have beating us". 

And we did, finally, at Old Trafford, (09 ?), and what a fantastic celebration, what utter joy. Brilliant day. Wouldn't have missed it for anything.

But just a few games before he'd stopped going, aged 19, having decided MONs  football wasn't worth his Saturdays.  Shame.

I guess it's whether you feel you can keep going through the lows !

Its funny that Terry......Because, Ironically under O'Neill towards the end I broke 25 years of season ticket ownership, due to the Style of football, rather than results.

How I would put up with that now.

I had a few years out , Got a grip of the frustration, I was feeling and come back less agitated, ironically.

I will be there tonight......fingers crossed.

Edited February 28, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

4 hours ago, PaulC said:

Yes but you had to wait 15 years for that Tro. I don't want to wait another 15 years I do feel sorry for younger fans who have never experienced anything like we have. Winning the league remains one of my proudest moments. The day at Hillsborough when we thrashed Wednesday and got back to the top tier my fav. Good times will come again but other big clubs like Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday have had to wait a long time. Leeds were the team when I was young kid.

you mean :

Sprake-Reaney-Cooper-Charlton-Madeley- Lorimer-Giles-Bremner-Gray Clarke-Jones

Nah....I don't remember them?

I still like 4-4-2 with Giles and Bremner doing the growling and Lorimer and Gray as the pianists.....Jonesy the Target man and Clarke the "Ghost"

proper team that.

and mix it?......all day long if you wanted it that way......seen them live a few times......formidable.

ps .....apologies OT

Edited February 28, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Not sure if this is the best thread for it, but seems fairly appropriate, I'd like to ask Mark - or anyone else - a genuine question as to what progress they think we have made. 

I don't mean the football or Manager or League position, that's for other places, but in terms of finances, infrastructure, development, revenues, and all that .

Because I don't see much. I don't mean that negatively, I mean it literally, I mean, I accept it could well be there but can anyone enlighten me.

The accounts don't show it, obviously, I don't see anything different at the ground, TRO posted the other day that there may still be 'back stabbing' etc.

It would be refreshing to hear what are the tangible ( rather than proposed) signs that we are  progressing.

Bearing in mind Terry that is only one persons opinion.....albeit a well known Villa person in villa circles , I hasten to add, reassuringly not from the playing side.

That's why I say to you 7 years of that, needs some shifting, by many folk. and I think it does have a knock on effect to the players too.

I think Mark has touched on the positives....but I think there is more to come. unfortunately its a gradual process, not an overnight fix.

The playing side I think, we have moved forward  results wise and then gone back again.....We will come again.

Its wishful thinking.....but I wish Tony was at VP much more.

I am a firm believer in, "when the cats away the mice will play".....For all his faults, Doug did have discipline at VP.

I know Keith is there, but I wonder if it has the same effect.

Edited February 28, 2017 by TRO

[striker]

Can Villa ever be successful without getting into debt? By that I mean manageable debt?

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, striker said:

Can Villa ever be successful without getting into debt? By that I mean manageable debt?

YES

[dont_do_it_doug.]

2 hours ago, terrytini said:

 

I don't know how it works financially but surely some explanation either accompanying or ahead of the publication of full accounts would help ?

 

I don't really see who that helps? They will be out soon enough. They're Randy Lerner's last accounts and he's hardly going to defend them or himself is he. 

You're asking the wrong people the wrong questions I think. 

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

YES

Really? I'm not so sure. The nature of football and the money that is involved essentially means that to go from being unsuccessful to successful means that a period of debt is inevitable to obtain players, other staff etc. With a sustained period of success then coming back into the black would be possible. 

Now that is a very basic lay man opinion with absolutely no fact to back it up but I would feel that it is roughly correct....

[thunderball]

Phhtt.

We keep breaking records. The wrong records.

On the plus side, I am sure this makes no difference to any strategy, nor is a shock to anyone associated with the club. They will throw out as much sh*it as they can with these accounts to make it look bad. Value write downs will be the big issue, on a positive note, we won't be wasting any money paying any corporation tax this year! 

If we don't get promoted next season start to panic. Relax until summer 2018......

[PaulC]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

you mean :

Sprake-Reaney-Cooper-Charlton-Madeley- Lorimer-Giles-Bremner-Gray Clarke-Jones

Nah....I don't remember them?

I still like 4-4-2 with Giles and Bremner doing the growling and Lorimer and Gray as the pianists.....Jonesy the Target man and Clarke the "Ghost"

proper team that.

and mix it......all day long if you wanted it that way......seen them live a few times......formidable.

ps .....apologies OT

yes great team that

[blandy]

3 hours ago, terrytini said:

a genuine question as to what progress they think we have made. 

I don't mean the football or Manager or League position, that's for other places, but in terms of finances, infrastructure, development, revenues, and all that .

Because I don't see much. I don't mean that negatively, I mean it literally, I mean, I accept it could well be there but can anyone enlighten me.

The accounts don't show it, obviously, I don't see anything different at the ground, TRO posted the other day that there may still be 'back stabbing' etc.

It would be refreshing to hear what are the tangible ( rather than proposed) signs that we are  progressing.

For what it's worth, in terms of kind of tangible evidence of progress:

We've gone from an owner who was distant and uninvolved to one who is communicative, enthusiastic and fully involved. That's an improvement.

We've gone from an owner whose "plan" was to sell the club to one whose plan is to progress rapidly as a sporting and footballing entity.

We've gone from a club that had been hollowed out in soul and personnel and knowledge to one that's employing appropraitely skilled and experienced people in the right positions.

We've gone from a club that was limiting the transfer funds for manager(s) to one which has funded manager's plans.

We've gone from a club that was plunging downwards in all respects, to one that has hit the low point and is now bumping along the bottom.

We've gone from being a club people didn't want to join, to one players want to play for.

That said, we are, IMO, just bumping along the bottom and Villa is not really enjoyable (for me) and I saw your post that caused the fuss as black humour" and something I looked at and thought "I know just what he means - he doesn't literally mean he wants Villa to vanish, just that it's been bringing no joy and plenty of grief and anxiety and it' be nice to be "free" of that"

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I don't really see who that helps? They will be out soon enough. They're Randy Lerner's last accounts and he's hardly going to defend them or himself is he. 

You're asking the wrong people the wrong questions I think. 

What a pathetic, mental pile of tripe .

[terrytini]

Blandy I agree with every word, but I'd still love to hear about some actual 'things' - I heard Franksy after the game on Saturday saying how appalling he found Wynesses descriptions of the amount of garbage they had/are having to deal with.

It doesn't suprise me, Lerner had fostered a culture of neglect for a long long time.

Now I know they are hardly likely to come out and say "we found XY and Z, and are doing precisely this and that" but  - unless I've missed it - I would be very interested to know WHAT they are doing (rather than that they are doing it, which I agree with).

I've sorted out a few different piles of corporate garbage in my time and what you do about it  -after youve got the right people - is very very varied depending on what the business is, and what its failings were, so I just wondered if anyone had anything concrete they could point at.

For example, I've heard the scouting network, BMH, the Academy etc, are all being 'sorted' - but Id be interested to know what they are actually doing. As regards our debts and future progress its all obviously essential stuff.

I'm sure all will become clearer in time.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, sparrow1988 said:

Really? I'm not so sure. The nature of football and the money that is involved essentially means that to go from being unsuccessful to successful means that a period of debt is inevitable to obtain players, other staff etc. With a sustained period of success then coming back into the black would be possible. 

Now that is a very basic lay man opinion with absolutely no fact to back it up but I would feel that it is roughly correct....

• Platt
• McGrath
• Yorke
• Laursen
• Neilsen
• Teale
• Spink
• Gidman
• Barry
• Morley
• A Evans
• Cropley
• Bremner
• Mortimer
• Rimmer
• Ehiogu

and more

Ok so I'm going back a bit....but even then , they were modest sums, even in those days

We have been more successful, with those type of buys.

[striker]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

• Platt
• McGrath
• Yorke
• Laursen
• Neilsen
• Teale
• Spink
• Gidman
• Barry
• Morley
• A Evans
• Cropley
• Bremner
• Mortimer
• Rimmer
• Ehiogu

and more

Ok so I'm going back a bit....but even then , they were modest sums, even in those days

We have been more successful, with those type of buys.

Going back a bit is probably right. There are less good players available at modest sums now and look what happened when Lambert tried that.

Wee jewels can still be found though but the bigger clubs now have world wide scouting networks that tend to snap up potential before the likes of Villa can get their hands on them.

Edited February 28, 2017 by striker

[blandy]

2 hours ago, terrytini said:

but I'd still love to hear about some actual 'things'

We know that in football, much of the action or what's going on is intangible people based rather than tangible "thing" based, so to a fair extent what you're asking for (if I understand correctly) is not really possib;e to provide. There have been appointments of scouts and heads of scouting and all the rest of it.

I know as well that it's "only talk" but there's been stuff mentioned about massively improving (restoring +) the various links to youth talent and such like, so that clubs like Everton don't end up signing all the kids from "our" area of the country.

And for all the things that went badly when RL was owner, it hs to be said that the infrastructure of the club was massively improved, meaning that tangibe changes in that area which were needed a decade ago were mostly all done and should be good for a fair few years yet, so it's not like Dr T has to build a new training ground or whatever.

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, striker said:

Going back a bit is probably right. There are less good players available at modest sums now and look what happened when Lambert tried that.

Wee jewels can still be found though but the bigger clubs now have world wide scouting networks that tend to snap up potential before the likes of Villa can get their hands on them.

There is some truth in that.....but also when the likes of Steve Walsh from Leicester was available, thats where we should have struck.....Instead he's gone to Everton.

We had a "Tony Barton" much like Steve Walsh.....who was instrumental in unearthing such a lot of talent.....It helps if the scouts are prudent, like Tony was.

didn't Steve recently unearth one from Charlton?

its not as easy, but its not beyond us.

ps For me the important thing is not to bring players in...samey.....but to have a distinct difference and skills that will clearly add to us.

Edited February 28, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, striker said:

Going back a bit is probably right. There are less good players available at modest sums now and look what happened when Lambert tried that.

Wee jewels can still be found though but the bigger clubs now have world wide scouting networks that tend to snap up potential before the likes of Villa can get their hands on them.

Maybe, but lets not throw the towel in at the first sign of adversity.....that attitude might find its way on to the pitch eventually.

This club as a complete culture ......needs to bin its tough, its hard, its difficult to do.......and adopt Fight,fight fight......for everything.

We need to bin soft and sloppy.....for mean and hard nosed......everywhere in the club.

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by TRO

[hippo]

Has anyone said the club is 'rotten to the core' yet ? 

[dn1982]

22 hours ago, KHV said:

Scott Hogans fee could potentially go up to £15m which is eye wateringly ridiculous. Jedinak on near enough £60k per week is also mind boggling.

The key word is potentially. If we pay the top amount it'll mean success. We should structure all our deals and contracts like this. If we go up we pay higher wages and fees. Jedinak could be a liability as 3 year deals at 32 are wrong unless heavily incentivised. Im confident we have the right men in place to oversea it all though.