Steve Bruce

[Dave J]

On 06/11/2017 at 10:26, Stevo985 said:

"For goodness sake - what is the point of this?"

Sounds pretty hostile. 

But I'm not complaining, be hostile if you want that's your choice, I was just pointing out if you weren't so bothered by being so defensive about your post you might have seen the point I was making.

No harm done.

Stevo - really i’m Sorry I just can’t !!

[TRO]

3 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

TRO, I agree that some of the things our players, far too frequently fail to do.  Show, pass and move, close down quickly, be aware of runners, don't underhit a pass, put some pace on any back pass, etc. are things any school boy player should understand.  You appear to let Bruce off the hook because the player should do better.  I don't.  I agree they should know better.  clearly they knew better at other clubs.  But they aren't doing it AND HE TOLERATES IT.  Don't tell me that I don't know what he says or does at bodymoor heath, because the same culprits still stat the next match.  This is the greatest endorsement he can give to this unacceptable lack of professional pride.

I would start half the u-23 team if that's what it took to wake up those that can be arsed to show for a pass.  But I don't think it would require that drastic of an action.  Most of our pro's have done well before they got here.  Did they forget?  or is an unacceptable lack of professional responsibility tolerated.  My guess is that they have excuses.  So, is Bruce buying those excuses and tolerating poor decision making?  You nor I know that.  what we do know, is that he keeps starting the same players and expecting a different product.  and in post games he regularly talks about the great effort they made.  If you tolerate and therefor, implicitly approve of the conduct, then you are IMO equally responsible for it.

I have to say that is a very good post....and have no argument against it.certainly food for thought.....and some of the suggestions have crossed my mind.

its feasible and well presented.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

nice try

not a legitimate answer as Bruce chooses to play him over Taylor. That is no way an endorsement especially as we lost

You are not accounting for the FACT that at the time jedi was fit and up to speed. Samba is obviously not. So point 2 where you have no leg to stand on

That is purely subjective. he has been both effective and uneffective on either side this/last season

sounds like spin to me

I saw him, he was as shit as he was good.

see below

what is the point of bringing up examples of players who are on a completely different level than Samba and/or Hutton

comment for effect without relative substance I‘m afraid

• Thank you i know it was.
• the fact we lost has no way totally reflective of that decision
• are you actually in a position to know Samba wasn't fit, he was fit enough to play centre half and then go up front and score the ONLY goal of the game where offensive players failed.
• it is subjective, most things are and most of the stuff you present is subjective, so join the club.....but recently he has had a rennaisance at left wing, so it follows that playing out of position, is not the be all and end all.
• Martin O'Neill said that, so no its not spin.....whether it has relevance, is whether you accept it or not.....football is about opinions, even amongst managers.
• Dion Dublin could play in both positions, whether you thought he was any good, is in it self subjective.
• whatever level players are, parallels can be drawn its all relative e.g attitude can be prevalent in a player top of the prem or bottom of the 2nd division.

I think thats is enough substance to be getting on with.

[Grasshopper]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

• Thank you i know it was.
• the fact we lost has no way totally reflective of that decision
• are you actually in a position to know Samba wasn't fit, he was fit enough to play centre half and then go up front and score the ONLY goal of the game where offensive players failed.
• it is subjective, most things are and most of the stuff you present is subjective, so join the club.....but recently he has had a rennaisance at left wing, so it follows that playing out of position, is not the be all and end all.
• Martin O'Neill said that, so no its not spin.....whether it has relevance, is whether you accept it or not.....football is about opinions, even amongst managers.
• Dion Dublin could play in both positions, whether you thought he was any good, is in it self subjective.
• whatever level players are, parallels can be drawn its all relative e.g attitude can be prevalent in a player top of the prem or bottom of the 2nd division.

I think thats is enough substance to be getting on with.

So one can continue to play someone out of position even if they then go to sh*t

ok

[TRO]

6 hours ago, dn1982 said:

If anybody thinks we went into this season with 5 avaiable they are grasping at straws. You may aswell include the kids in counting squad numbers. We went into this season with 2 CB's 1 LB and 3 RB's none of whom Bruce trusts so he posts Elmo there. I say 2 CB's because Elphick and Richards are non existent and not wanted anywhere near the team by Bruce and our back up is Samba who you wouldn't want to play unless you have to. A squad is supposed to be full of players who can come in and out them team. Terry being injured means Chester moves left where he isnt as good regardless who he plays with. We've one left footed defender. Hopefully we go 433 until Terry gets fit as we need extra cover in midfield to help the defence now.  I'll be surprised if we are in the playoffs by the time he gets back. 

We need extra cover in midfield so we play 4-3-3.....could you explain that, please

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

So one can continue to play someone out of position even if they then go to sh*t

ok

The issue for me is playing ****........... not out of position, that is a mitigation....and weak mitigation for me.

my examples given, have illustrated it happens regularly and that playing **** is no excuse.

[TRO]

7 hours ago, mykeyb said:

You would have thought.

If the newspapers are correct and they arent always he now wants to shift Hogan, Lansbury and Bree so he can sign some more players.............I can see that working well. I wouldnt be suprised if Grealish is moved out as a saleable assest even though Steve was planning to build his whole team around him, we will see on that.

I think Terry obviously and Johnstone is the only signings you can say are of the standard needed so I am not sure I want Steve to sign another 2 or 3 players "he knows".

I want Steve Bruce to sign 2or 3 players who can bring value to the first eleven and elevate our position.

[AntrimBlack]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I want Steve Bruce to sign 2or 3 players who can bring value to the first eleven and elevate our position.

I don't believe he has managed to do that so far, Tro, so I have little faith that he will now be able to do so.

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, AntrimBlack said:

I don't believe he has managed to do that so far, Tro, so I have little faith that he will now be able to do so.

Finished 13th last season, up to 5th now? That's some elevation at least. 

[AntrimBlack]

4 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Finished 13th last season, up to 5th now? That's some elevation at least. 

On reflection, I think you are correct, and I was talking out of my arse. 

[Grasshopper]

28 minutes ago, TRO said:

The issue for me is playing ****........... not out of position, that is a mitigation....and weak mitigation for me.

my examples given, have illustrated it happens regularly and that playing **** is no excuse.

for better players no, because better quality players possibly can.

Expecting it (like Bruce does) from inferior players is poor management. (especially when the evidence proves that)

(but I know deep down you know that)

Edited November 7, 2017 by Grasshopper

[TRO]

27 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

I don't believe he has managed to do that so far, Tro, so I have little faith that he will now be able to do so.

So you don't believe Terry, Johnstone and Hourihane has improved us?

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

for better players no, because better quality players possibly can.

Expecting it (like Bruce does) from inferior players is poor management. (especially when the evidence proves that)

(but I know deep down you know that)

You cannot keep shuffling players around and expect to make a good team alone.....coaching will only do so much, its fine tuning.

Nuno is doing so well in the main because he has good players.

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

for better players no, because better quality players possibly can.

Expecting it (like Bruce does) from inferior players is poor management. (especially when the evidence proves that)

(but I know deep down you know that)

Your first line is coming around to my way of thinking, we are not quite good enough individually.....the manager knows it.

your second line has some merit, but maybe ita all he can sign.

better players have stronger concentration, better players adapt to other positions, better players read the game, better players do not need 5 in midfield.

thats why they are better.

it takes more than the odd flash of improvisation to be a better player.....sorry, i am not trying to be condescending.....but our players are limited and limited in regards to consistency.

Jt is a one off and way above any level of quality we have........just like Macca was.

Edited November 7, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

44 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

I don't believe he has managed to do that so far, Tro, so I have little faith that he will now be able to do so.

Errrrr i kinda know what you mean.....terry and johnstone was good, others have been not much better than we already had.

we haven't been savvy in this area for a long time.

[AntrimBlack]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

So you don't believe Terry, Johnstone and Hourihane has improved us?

See my response to Lexicon several posts previous, Tro.

Edited November 7, 2017 by AntrimBlack

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

See my response to Lexicon several posts previous, Tro.

I don't think you was talking out of your ****

but with some we surely could  have done better.....easier said than done i guess.

perhaps signing Mark ashton ( Chief Scout from Bristol city) might help.

Edited November 7, 2017 by TRO

[vreitti]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

...but our players are limited and limited in regards to consistency.

Jt is a one off and way above any level of quality we have........just like Macca was.

Most of our players, where tearing this league apart before joining us, especially those signed by Bruce that is.

How come the likes of Lansbury and Hogan more or less instantly became useless when pulling on our jersey?

You don't think Bruce's training methods and/or tactics has had any influence on their bizarre "loss of form"? Or do you think these players all of the sudden thought to themselves, yeah now I've joined villa, it's probably a good idea to start underperforming? 

Grealish hasn't once looked comfortable either. And don't get me started on Thor. Hourihane's been inconsistent to say the least. The same could be said of Whelan. Bree and Bedeau hasn't featured at all.

No big surprise Terry's performed adequately, but then again we are probably talking about the best English defender of his generation. Not even Bruce could destroy that.

Fact is the only positives during Bruce's tenure, where RDMs signings. 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by vreitti

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Most of our players, where tearing this league apart before joining us, especially those signed by Bruce that is.

How come the likes of Lansbury and Hogan more or less instantly became useless when pulling on our jersey?

You don't think Bruce's training methods and/or tactics has had any influence on their bizarre "loss of form"? Or do you think these players all of the sudden thought to themselves, yeah now I've joined villa, it's probably a good idea to start underperforming? 

Grealish hasn't once looked comfortable either. And don't get me started on Thor. Hourihane's been inconsistent to say the least. The same could be said of Whelan. Bree and Bedeau hasn't featured at all.

No big surprise Terry's performed adequately, but then again we are probably talking about the best English defender of his generation. Not even Bruce could destroy that.

Fact is the only positives during Bruce's tenure, where RDMs signings. 

 

 

Sounds like they were really grateful....so we'll just play for Steve Bruce.The bloke who signed us can go to hell.

Yeah...."tell that to the marines"

[Vive_La_Villa]

38 minutes ago, TRO said:

Your first line is coming around to my way of thinking, we are not quite good enough individually.....the manager knows it.

your second line has some merit, but maybe ita all he can sign.

better players have stronger concentration, better players adapt to other positions, better players read the game, better players do not need 5 in midfield.

thats why they are better.

it takes more than the odd flash of improvisation to be a better player.....sorry, i am not trying to be condescending.....but our players are limited and limited in regards to consistency.

Jt is a one off and way above any level of quality we have........just like Macca was.

While I agree our players are limited we are seeing Ex Villa players deemed not good enough for us or even very poor players shining in other teams. Hogg and Bannan spring to mind. 

While our players aren't as good as some fans think they are it's clear there has been no style of play or philosophy coached to these players. If there has been then f**k knows what it is!!

If it's all about individual ability then why are Brentford one of the best passing teams in the league on a shoe string budget?

They are professional footballers. They are all more than capable of one touch pass and move football.  The only real understanding I've seen between players is that of Elmo and Snodgrass. And even that is nothing special.

I have no idea what's been going on in training for the past year or so!