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Steve Bruce


Demitri_C

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6 hours ago, PieFacE said:

Hopefully that's the end of 4-4-2. 

I hate the opinion that it's a "more attacking" formation.

If you can't create any chances then it's hardly more attacking. We've always struggled playing 4-4-2 and always look so much better with 3 in midfield. Having a player behind the striker to link midfield and attack is essential for us imo.

We should have kept the team the same as Preston but replaced Onomah for O'hare or Grealish. 

 

I wouldn't be against changing to 4-4-2 around  the 70 minute mark if the game isn't going our way and we need to take a risk. But we should start each game 4-5-1. It suits Adomah much better too and he is crucial to us.

If we had 5 in midfield that worldie they scored doesn't happen imo. Would be a body there to clean up.

I think you make a good point in your final paragragh.....but to me that intimates the midfield individually are not strong enough.I think amongst many factors they lack savvy in terms of positioning.

we have to pick players up and we don't do it enough.

we wonder why teams play well agianst us when in certain games, when we gift them space to play in.

i am not going to speculate why that is, because i am unsure amongst so many factors.

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3 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Totally agree, I cannot understand what the coaches are doing at BMH everyday. Its not just been under the current manager either.

I totally agree and that is not a get out of jail free card for SB.....its been like this for some time.

I don't think we are as good as we think we are......I am talking more about consistency.

our form is up and down too much to expect auto promotion.....i think play offs is the best we can hope for unless we get some guile in to this team.

we need a carbone, solano or merson.....someone to unlock defences.

we need more than that, but just for starters.

ps we lost it in Midfield yesterday, they dominated us.

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2 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

The refusal to place blame on Bruce is baffling to me.  Having said that, while there is plenty of blame he should shoulder for the s Wednesday match, it’s also one for which there are several big contributors to the result that are actually not his fault.   

Those with lots of hope for his ability to get us promoted are likely to focus on those things that aren’t his fault (first goal, JT injury).  Those with little hope he will get us promoted will focus on those things that are his fault, (not resting those that were too tired to be effective, leaving the midfield too open).  There is some truth in both.  

Peraonally, I am not inclined to have much hope in him, but I think this match has many fewer clear examples of why I feel that way than most.   

Personally I refuse to not blame him, but feel a need to clarify.

The manager of any football club  is responsible, directly or indirectly for what goes on with the football side of the club.....that includes matchday.

In terms of what goes on, on the pitch he has limited powers...he can shout instructions, he can move players around, he can arrange substitutions......what he can't do is play for them, make decisions of when to release the ball, make passes, close down, run around intelligently and take up savvy postioning.....there are many more factors that he can't affect to secure the favoured result.

No one as i understand comes on here and unconditionally defends SB....they do so in an attempt to apportion the blame fairly.

as an example.....i seen Bruce screaming at certain players to push forward yesterday, does that illustrate someone who is encouraging retreat.

I just think "refusal to blame Bruce"is a bit of a cop out.....i think some of the players struggle with consistency......i also think Bruce is to blame for many things, but not everything.

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40 minutes ago, villarocker said:

I can honestly say that I was not screaming for Hogan to play alongside Davis. In fact, I'm not screaming for him to play alongside anyone at our club.

I agree, hogans crap. He can't even do the simple things right. Not good enough

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18 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

All that misguided optimism after a 2-0 victory against a Preston side with a depleted defence . The best coach in the league ? Your having a bubble. 

In fairness, he did mean this:

44378646.jpg

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17 minutes ago, TRO said:

Personally I refuse to not blame him, but feel a need to clarify.

The manager of any football is responsible, directly or indirectly for what goes on with the football side of the club.....that includes matchday.

In terms of what goes on, on the pitch he has limited powers...he can shout instructions, he can move players around, he can arrange substitutions......what he can't do is play for them, make decisions of when to release the ball, make passes, close down, run around intelligently and take up savvy postioning.....there are many more factors that he can't affect to secure the favoured result.

No one as i understand comes on here and unconditionally defends SB....they do so in an attempt to apportion the blame fairly.

as an example.....i seen Bruce screaming at certain players to push forward yesterday, does that illustrate someone who is encouraging retreat.

I just think "refusal to blame Bruce"is a bit of a cop out.....i think some of the players struggle with consistency......i also think Bruce is to blame for many things, but not everything.

I think with the proper set up and coaching so that the players all know their role the manager has less organising to do from the touchline.

To me, a lot of our problems stem from poor coaching. And that is down to Bruce and his coaching staff.

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What i don't quite get from many posters on this site.....is Steve Bruce and tactics.

He has said he doesn't do tactics.....my understanding from that is that he doesn't put so much store in to it as some do.

I have seen posts where they have lauded him for getting his tactics spot on and others where his tactics were wrong and he is clueless.

I find it hard to reconcile he knows what he us doing one minute, but not the next.....knowledge and savvy does not leave a person so easily.

There are so many factors that contibute to a poor performance or defeat and we all feel obliged to know the answer.....its not always that clear or too mant factors are at play at any one time, to be sure.

I find it hard to believe that a man who has faced most of europes teams as captain of Man Utd and spent c20 years as manager in top flight football, does not comprehend tactics...not feasible to me.

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5 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

I think with the proper set up and coaching so that the players all know their role the manager has less organising to do from the touchline.

To me, a lot of our problems stem from poor coaching. And that is down to Bruce and his coaching staff.

I accept your first paragraph

AB.....we don't know what they are told, they maybe told correctly.....but for whatever reason they don't do it.

We have had more coaches than "National Express"......are they all poor.

I do not know either, so i cannot take sides, my point is they are all in it together.....if the manager is not getting the right response from his instructions, the inevitable will happen.

It interested me to see the speculation that he is possibly looking to sell 4 players from the first team squad to raise funds, that does not strike me as a manager who is happy with what players are giving him in general.

 

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29 minutes ago, TRO said:

I accept your first paragraph

AB.....we don't know what they are told, they maybe told correctly.....but for whatever reason they don't do it.

We have had more coaches than "National Express"......are they all poor.

I do not know either, so i cannot take sides, my point is they are all in it together.....if the manager is not getting the right response from his instructions, the inevitable will happen.

It interested me to see the speculation that he is possibly looking to sell 4 players from the first team squad to raise funds, that does not strike me as a manager who is happy with what players are giving him in general.

 

But TRO. We’ve had more players than anyone else in championship (a guess, not an explored, documented fact) we have had lots of coaches, too.  Many more players than coaches.   Many of our players were quite capable at other places with other managers.   Does bodymoor turn good players into unskilled, unfit, uncoachable losers?

it has to come down to how they are coached/prepared.  For me

weve had this discussion before. But when a pattern is this pervasive, it’s more logical (to me) to focus blame on the one common denominator.  The one with whom the buck stops.  Rather than blame 20 some odd players that all turn less effective when they arrive.  

Oh, and I agree I overstated both poles in my earlier post.  I was more interested in the point being made than in precision of the statement.  

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23 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

But TRO. We’ve had more players than anyone else in championship (a guess, not an explored, documented fact) we have had lots of coaches, too.  Many more players than coaches.   Many of our players were quoted capable at other places with other managers.   Does bodymoor turn good players into unskilled, unfit, uncoachable losers?

it has to come down to how they are coached/prepared.  For me

weve had this discussion before. But when a pattern is this pervasive, it’s more logical (to me) to focus blame on the one common denominator.  The one with whom the buck stops.  Rather than blame 20 some odd players that all turn less effective when they arrive.  

Oh, and I agree I overstated both poles in my earlier post.  I was more interested in the point being made than in precision of the statement.  

Look, i am not saying you are wrong and your illustration is plausible.....but equally we have had many managers, the same comparison can be equally applied.

It could well be the lack of quality can be applied across both plains.

John Terry as old as he is, has indicated to us what "quality" is really about. i have mixed feelings in many of our players particularly in rounded terms.....not sure we are best in the division as some allude to.

individually i have seen our players play in very mixed circumstances....some really good and then poor.....there are many factors responsible for that and i am not going to speculate, i would guessing.

ps but I accept your conclusion.

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

What i don't quite get from many posters on this site.....is Steve Bruce and tactics.

He has said he doesn't do tactics.....my understanding from that is that he doesn't put so much store in to it as some do.

I have seen posts where they have lauded him for getting his tactics spot on and others where his tactics were wrong and he is clueless.

I find it hard to reconcile he knows what he us doing one minute, but not the next.....knowledge and savvy does not leave a person so easily.

There are so many factors that contibute to a poor performance or defeat and we all feel obliged to know the answer.....its not always that clear or too mant factors are at play at any one time, to be sure.

I find it hard to believe that a man who has faced most of europes teams as captain of Man Utd and spent c20 years as manager in top flight football, does not comprehend tactics...not feasible to me.

To be fair TRO, IF Bruce is not the person responsible for tactics, he needs to fire the f***er(s) that is!

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1 minute ago, villarocker said:

To be fair TRO, IF Bruce is not the person responsible for tactics, he needs to fire the f***er(s) that is!

VR .....of course he is responsible for tactics, that was not the centre of my point....I said he doesn't put as much store in to it as some do......rightly or wrongly. presumably he thinks many other factors have a more telling affect.....now that might just relate to us as opposed to football in general.

He may feel( just speculating) there are bigger fish to fry.

now that opens up an entirely different debate.

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

I find it hard to believe that a man who has faced most of europes teams as captain of Man Utd and spent c20 years as manager in top flight football, does not comprehend tactics...not feasible to me.

I'd have thought his job as a player was organising the back four, not determining the tactics for the team and the match.

As a manager, as we've discussed, he has made comments suggesting he places less importance on tactics than many other managers, and many people here have commented that this is an example of an approach which may have been ok some time ago, but looks out of place today (or to use the shorthand expression, "dinosaur").

If he does have the comprehensive understanding of tactics that we would like, then the question is why he doesn't seem able to deploy a large and pretty good squad effectively, on a consistent basis.  I think that's why some people feel that when something goes right, it's not necessarily been part of a plan, and when something goes wrong, he doesn't always seem to show a response that addresses the problem.

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7 minutes ago, peterms said:

I'd have thought his job as a player was organising the back four, not determining the tactics for the team and the match.

As a manager, as we've discussed, he has made comments suggesting he places less importance on tactics than many other managers, and many people here have commented that this is an example of an approach which may have been ok some time ago, but looks out of place today (or to use the shorthand expression, "dinosaur").

If he does have the comprehensive understanding of tactics that we would like, then the question is why he doesn't seem able to deploy a large and pretty good squad effectively, on a consistent basis.  I think that's why some people feel that when something goes right, it's not necessarily been part of a plan, and when something goes wrong, he doesn't always seem to show a response that addresses the problem.

Some managers are more hands on than others training wise and tactically , an ex villa defender told me once that he went to see mon about his game and mon replied words to the effect of ‘ why are you seeing me , I’m the manager , go and discuss it with Steve Walford’.

Bruce and o Neill are both old school but the modern managers seem much more involved in training and tactics.

 

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2 hours ago, TRO said:

What i don't quite get from many posters on this site.....is Steve Bruce and tactics.

He has said he doesn't do tactics.....my understanding from that is that he doesn't put so much store in to it as some do.

I have seen posts where they have lauded him for getting his tactics spot on and others where his tactics were wrong and he is clueless.

I find it hard to reconcile he knows what he us doing one minute, but not the next.....knowledge and savvy does not leave a person so easily.

There are so many factors that contibute to a poor performance or defeat and we all feel obliged to know the answer.....its not always that clear or too mant factors are at play at any one time, to be sure.

I find it hard to believe that a man who has faced most of europes teams as captain of Man Utd and spent c20 years as manager in top flight football, does not comprehend tactics...not feasible to me.

 

2 hours ago, TRO said:

What i don't quite get from many posters on this site.....is Steve Bruce and tactics.

He has said he doesn't do tactics.....my understanding from that is that he doesn't put so much store in to it as some do.

I have seen posts where they have lauded him for getting his tactics spot on and others where his tactics were wrong and he is clueless.

I find it hard to reconcile he knows what he us doing one minute, but not the next.....knowledge and savvy does not leave a person so easily.

There are so many factors that contibute to a poor performance or defeat and we all feel obliged to know the answer.....its not always that clear or too mant factors are at play at any one time, to be sure.

I find it hard to believe that a man who has faced most of europes teams as captain of Man Utd and spent c20 years as manager in top flight football, does not comprehend tactics...not feasible to me.

Whatever is tactics are , I don't hold much store with them.

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2 hours ago, TRO said:

I accept your first paragraph

AB.....we don't know what they are told, they maybe told correctly.....but for whatever reason they don't do it.

We have had more coaches than "National Express"......are they all poor.

I do not know either, so i cannot take sides, my point is they are all in it together.....if the manager is not getting the right response from his instructions, the inevitable will happen.

It interested me to see the speculation that he is possibly looking to sell 4 players from the first team squad to raise funds, that does not strike me as a manager who is happy with what players are giving him in general.

 

That strikes me, Tro, as a manager perhaps still trying to find answers.

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2 hours ago, TRO said:

I accept your first paragraph

AB.....we don't know what they are told, they maybe told correctly.....but for whatever reason they don't do it.

I have seen you suggest this a few times and to be honest none of us know for sure however I am not sure which side of the coin is worse. Players not following through with the coaches and managers instructions or now clear instruction given during training. Surely both raise legitimate questions about the coaches and manager.?

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We approach every game with two plans, get the ball down the wings or to Kodjia and hope, a lot of that play involves hoofing it.

In quite a lot of games the tactics we set out with quickly fall short against teams that press hard and keep possession well. The issue is when that happens it's game over, we never have a plan B and I am not sure any subs Bruce has made in recent times has helped us win or draw a game.

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